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Mel Kiper Mock Draft 2016: Dolphins score in BPA pick

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Sceeto, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  2. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So much of what the Dolphins do in the draft depends on how they handle free agency. If Vance Joseph is indeed running a 3-4 with Phillips shading the nose and Suh playing DE as a 3-technique, I think the biggest need is at pass rushing OLB.

    Lawson would've made more sense for the Dolphins if they were sticking with a 4-3, didn't want to invest in Vernon and instead wanted a thicker player to anchor the line opposite Wake.

    Clemson is my alma mater and I love Shaq Lawson as a prospect but I'm not sure he's a fit in Miami.
     
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  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's yet known what type of D they will definitely be running, but yeah, I've been saying for awhile that the team desperately needs some speed and power coming off the edge, be it a DE in a 4-3 or a OLB in a 3-4.
     
  4. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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  5. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I think rolling with Shelbly and Fede at DE is a very bad move or lack thereof. JMO.
     
  6. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with regard to Fede. At this point he's nothing. Shelby on the other hand seems entirely under-rated as a rotational or back-up player and (IMO) should definitely be offered a deal if Vernon is on the way out and the team is keeping it's 4-3 alignment. As evidenced by the last month or two of the season you can do a lot worse than Shelby coming off the bench.

    In regards to the scheme, I don't know what the plan is. Right now the team is poised to negotiate with Vernon given that he's most effective standing up out wide which you figure would be something Joseph could have him do from the OLB position. As an anchor opposite Wake in a traditional 43 alignment, I think Vernon has a tendency to underwhelm. So Vernon may actually be more valuable now that Joseph is in town and the 34 is a real possibility.

    However, that would also definitely rule out Lawson and may even reduce the likelihood of Miami going ILB at #8 considering they have Jenkins, Hewitt and Sheppard who could all slide inside. While none of them are exactly elite player, I think CB would be a much more pressing need at that point than ILB in a 34.

    So, in a sense, we may just be talking about the wrong Clemson defender here....enter MacKensie Alexander.


    Imagine a scenario in which Alexander is CB a prospect you think may go in the back half of the 1st round around where Vontae Davis went (18th-28th). Miami could trade back into the teens, pick-up an extra draft pick, select an OT, then trade back into the first round and select Alexander. Imagine Tannenbaum coming away with something like that? That would be pretty epic and not necessarily out of the question given Tannenbaum's history. He likes trading picks and he's shown to select both OTs and CBs in the first round.

    While some may scoff at the idea of Alexander falling, let me remind everyone that he's not exactly the ball-hawking type. His technique is good, especially for a college player but he's not Revis or Peterson or Grimes or Davis. I think as the scouts look more and more at Alexander his name will drop slightly due to the lack of excitement in the highlights. And again, I'm a HUGE Clemson fan.
     
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  7. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I like Fede, but to reiterate from my quote, at worst. Do we re-sign Vernon, and at what price? Does Cameron Wake come back from the achilles injury? I don't know. What I do know is that the LBs are attrocious, the CB position is in dire straits and the OL is, as always, a mess. We have no solutions at LB and CB right now- perosnally I'm taking Hargreaves, Jack or Alexander all day long before I take Shaq Lawson, as good as he is.
     
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  8. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Man, I really hope Lippett gets some opportunities and makes the most out of them this off-season. I loved the play he made in the last game. Hard to bet the bank on a late round guy, but man, how great would it be if he developed into a play maker?
     
  9. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, it would be nice to have the," twin towers," of Trumaine Johnson and Tony Lippett on the boundaries, and a savvy vet like Leon Hall in the slot.
     
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  10. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Stupid pick. Get the best lineman you can. Rehab Dion Jordan ala Ricky Williams. Even if you don't get Dion Jordan back, DE/LB'S are notoriously risky high picks. Just ask the Jets, Jags, Houston...hell even us!


    I would love to see us take Ronnie Stanley and Vadal Alexander in the first two rounds. Start them off both at guards and let Ronnie slide outside when someone inevitably gets injured.

    I'm skeptical of Myles Jack, as well.
     
  11. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Probably not the best nickname since Ross leased them right before they fell...
     
  12. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I wouldn't be a fan of the pick. Nothing against Lawson as a player, but we've invested huge resources into both the Oline and Dline in recent years. I wouldbe much happier with LB and CB being addressed early in the draft than plugging in another lineman.

    I know our Oline is crud and with the unsure situation with OV and wake it makes sense to reload at DE, but if we keep putting resources into the lines and relying on 4th and 5th rounders in the LB and DB positions the D is never going to be able to reliably stop anyone.
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Defensive End? Not a chance. No matter what the "need" we may have at that position the bottom line is we have far greater needs elsewhere. Is he BPA at 8? Maybe. No way to know until we actually get to the draft. If Grier and Tannenbaum decided to draft based on pure BPA and the go for a DE on that basis then I won't argue with it. If it's a selection to fill a "need" though, then someone's not paying attention.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not a Kiper basher, but he's notoriously bad at matching players to a team's real needs. His "big board" lists are usually good, with the players in order of quality, but when it comes time to say which team takes which guy, he's much worse than most other draft media types.
     
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  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't like Shaq Lawson as a player that high in the draft, regardless of position. He's got his good points(motor, spin move) but there's also some stuff with him that is problematic. He does this weird thing where he takes on blocks with his shoulder instead of using his hands properly, will be late off of the snap, and when teams run right at him he doesn't get off his block particularly well.
     
  16. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    We should take the best LB or DB imo and if for some reason there isn't an elite one available at 8 then id go oline drafting another dline is the last thing we need atm imo
     
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  17. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Regarding pass-rushers, I think a lot depends on 1) does Miami re-sign Olivier Vernon and 2) is Miami going to be looking to transition to a 3-4?

    I think, if I'm Miami, I'm hoping Jalen Ramsey falls to 8, but I've got my sights set on Vernon Hargreaves. If they do go to a 3-4, I'm probably looking at guys like the following as early as round 2:

    Shilique Calhoun
    Noah Spence
    Kyler Fackrell
    Chris Jones
    Adam Gotsis
    Jonathan Allen
    Jarran Reed
     
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  18. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    If both VGIII and Ramsey are gone than I go with Shaq Lawson. Switch to the 3-4 after giving the best 4-3 DT in the game $116 million dollars? Absolute stupidity
     
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  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say, given the two positions could be nearly identical.
     
  20. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Have you seen all the 'trade Tannehill' - 'Trade for #2 pick' - 'Bring in Competition' 'Etc threads? Just after a new contract and a new coach with confidence? Maybe the Suh ones will start up too.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    "Bring in competition" is totally legit and has nothing to do with dissing Tannehill. From any team's point of view, competition usually gives you a better chance to find a better player or find out what a player really is made of so that's something you want.

    The other stuff (trading Tannehill, etc..) might have made sense with a different HC hire, but not with Gase.
     
  22. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Yes it does... he has competition every day and there isn't any close to better available that is worth a crap anyway.
     
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Reggie Ragland
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I actually think he's high on our board. Very good player at a position of huge need: ILB. Importantly, it's possible we miss out on the top CB/FS prospects but Ragland will still be there. In fact, if we do decide to trade down several spots it might be because Ragland is our target and we think he'll last into the 10-15 range.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    You bring in competition if you think the player is a problem. They don't bring in Brady's competition, for example.
     
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  26. RachelD

    RachelD Active Member

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    Ramsey should be the target all the way guy is an absolute monster, but i feel he will be gone before he gets to us. Ragland would be a good pick as well but I'm still holding out hope for Haregraves.
     
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You can bring in competition if you think the player might be a problem down the road even if he's your starter now, and I think that's the way to look at it with Tannehill.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    with our luck Ajayi, Lippett, Parker, Phillips will turn into good players and we just got rid of hickey...we'll see, funny how that works..
     
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  29. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    They don't?

    They've drafted 7 QBs since they drafted Brady. Including 4 in the top 4 rounds.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  30. Phins 4 Life

    Phins 4 Life New Member

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    If you don't have a top 10 QB you should always leave the door open to upgrade the position. What if Seattle had your same mindset? Don't draft Wilson we just signed Flynn to a big contract. He doesn't need competition. The team needs to show full confidence in him. Or what about the Redskins? In the same draft as RG3 they took Cousins in the 3rd round. That worked out for them this year. Don't put all your eggs in one basket when the guy you have at QB isn't a top 10 player and hasn't shown franchise QB ability. Why is Tannehill irreplaceable to you?
     
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  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Switching to a 3-4, A'Shawn Robinson makes the most sense. Hello, we only have 2 starting D-lineman [when appropriately removing Earl Mitchell from the equation], and winning the trenches is the most important need on the team. Hell, even with Mitchell it'd still be a major need. A'Shawn is a plug-n-play starter with a very high floor and the potential to become an All-Pro. Miami has unfortunately reached that critical stage where we simply can't afford to miss with this valuable Top 10 pick, especially not after Dion Jordan. He's as close to a sure thing as we'll find but who still has some upside left, and with his strong ability to play both DE & NT, Robinson also provides flexibility in determining which spot Jordan Phillips ends up at so that it's at his best positional fit.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    We have a lot more talent at DT than we have at LB or CB, so as far as "need" is concerned talent-wise, we need way more at CB and LB than DT. Gotta go CB/FS/LB with that 1st pick.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Pardon me while I heavily disagree, especially regarding the LB/FS comment. A need at ILB does NOT require a 1st rounder to fill, nor does FS, let alone a top 10 pick.

    Earl Mitchell needs to be cut to free up money and just b/c he needs to be cut. That leaves the team w/ just 3 defensive tackles [Suh, Phillips, and Coleman] to field a 3-man front with for a 3-4 Defense, with Phillips & Coleman having just 4 NFL starts between them. Unlike CB, winning the trenches is a group effort, not a collection of individual ones. Either you're winning the trenches or you're not, and if you think Miami is set up to win the trenches with that green trio and no bodies behind them for rotation, then I really don't know what to tell you.

    It doesn't matter who Miami has at corner if the defense isn't winning the trenches. A'Shawn Robinson is the type of player who makes EVERY ONE ELSE'S job easier b/c he's constantly collapsing his side of the line. Guys like that are invaluable. Hate to break it to you but dominating the trenches heavily diminishes the need to field Pro Bowlers at every other position like you seem to think a team requires to be successful.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Well I think we saw from last offseason how difficult it is to predict whether you'll dominate the trenches or not. Most people (including many self-styled experts) thought we'd dominate the trenches after signing Suh. So there's no guarantee we'll dominate the trenches by picking one great prospect in the draft.

    In any case, it's fine to disagree.. just suffice it to say that most people I've seen who look at our needs think CB or LB is a far bigger issue and should be our target in round 1. And just because they think that doesn't mean they (or I) think we need "Pro Bowlers at every other position"!
     
  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Agreed with looking DE or DL in the first. Unless Tunsil drops the only other guy I would consider is Ramsey. Buckner and Ogbah interest me a little as well. I want a DL that is strong, deep and brings the heat. We need to be able to pressure Brady and other high end QBs. Interior pass rush is invaluable.
     
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  36. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    What makes you think that we're switching to a 3-4 defense? Didn't Vance Joseph run a 4-3 with the Bengals this year?

    DE: Carlost Dunlap
    DT: Geno Atkins
    NT: Domata Peko
    DE: Michael Johnson

    I think that they ran some different formations, but the base defense was a 4-3 iirc. Tannenbaum insisted on drafting Jordan Phillips in the 2nd round, we'd better use him. I'd rather stick with a 4-3 and pick up a quality DB, LB or OL in the 1st rd.
     
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  37. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Paul Guenther is the Bengals D coordinator. Joseph was their DB coach. There is a video of Joseph explaining the Wade Philips 1 gap 3-4 that was run when he was in Houston. I can't remember the exact reason as to why they believe he would run this style of 3-4 but that is what Joseph hopefully will use.
     
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  38. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'd rather stick with a 3-4 with Suh and Phillips in the middle. Unless someone surprises, and even if we draft a LB with the 1st rd pick, our talent level is so low at LB it doesn't warrant the change.
     
  39. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    We got rid of Hickey but there's no indication that all of those picks were actually his. We retained (and promoted) both Eric Stokes and Chris Grier who seemed to have a lot of input into the draft process going off their press conferences last year. For all we know they were the ones who were driving most of the picks in the past couple drafts and Hickey was just going along with it.
     
  40. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Only thing is they were not drafted for 'competition' but for 'back-up'. Heck... almost zero practice reps with Brady around. Maybe they were drafting them to trade later or thinking Brady might call it quits if they won another one.

    Is Ragland a true NFL MLB? Clemson ran circles around him it seemed like.

    How bad was Jack's injury?
     

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