Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

There is a simple solution to resolve the weather issue. Placethe balls in a heated room that is the same temp as the one where they werd inflated and after a few hours check their pressure. If the deflation was caused by a temp drop than a temp rise should reinflate them back to thier original pressure.

I do not see any reason why it is taking so long to release if the balls naturally deflated or were tampered with. It seems like that is something that should be easy to answer.

 

Again, not a Patriots fan. Why is it that so many here take this route when someone disagrees with them on this issue? I don't agree with your assessment, and I doubt agree with jumping to conclusions, with no proof. The proof that is coming out now seems to point in other direction of your stance. That's not my fault, nor does it make me a Patriots fan.

 

Perhaps because they didn't keep the psi numbers from either check? How you prove anything without those numbers, from both teams?

 

What "proof" is coming out now?

The only proof is as follows:

1. 11 of the Patriots balls were under inflated.

2. The Patriots are known cheaters.

3. The Patriots have been accused of cheating at other times.

4. The Patriots turn the ball over at a statistically impossible rate.

5. Under inflated balls are easier to hold, catch, and throw.

 

first of all they do not need those numbers. The balls were checked and passed by the ref. Based on that it is fair to draw the inference that the balls were all within the range of tolerance unless you are calling the referees competency into question. If the explination is that the temp drop caused a pressure than a pressure rise should also occur if you place those same balls in a room heated to the same temp as they were when they passed the inspection. Its a pretty simple process to heat the balls for the same length of time they were exposed to the cold and retake the pressures. If it was caused by the temp change then the balls should reinflate themselves to be within the regulation standards.

if they do not reinflate it is safe to say that the temp drop is not what caused the deflation and they need to continue looking at what happened to those balls after the ref rekeased them into the pats custody.

 

This is not a court of law. They can assume the officials aren't lying.

 

Imo it is a huge reach to say the balls were somehow not the correct pressure when they were initially tested and passed.

 

So,, just to be clear, you are disregarding the report that only one ball was significantly deflated?

 

How are you going to do this test now? It's been three weeks.

 

I never said the officials were lying. I said no one has hard numbers for either sets of balls. There is no way of determining, at this point, if was intentional or unintentional (tampering) deflation.

 

Sure there is. Its called critical thinking and deductive reasoning. You don't need hard numbers. All you need is an official saying they were deflated past the legal limit.

 

Who is saying that? I'm not.

 

It isn't hard to recreate a 72 degree room and a 51 degree room.

 

Uh huh. Without having actual numbers, you can't critically think and deduce your way into anything with this.

 

And, just the same, if you didn't recreate it, would that mean that it couldn't have happened?

 

I really think you guys arguing that something should happen to the Patriots over this are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Nothing will happen, unless there is information that we don't know that changes all this, because nothing can be definitively proven at this point.

 

It means it probably didn't happen. Again, the burden of proof here is extremely low. 'Probably' is more than enough.

 

Why are you trying to say I said something I didn't? The NFL has CONFIRMED that 11 footballs were under inflated. Period.

I'm still waiting on the "proof" you're talking about.

 

Probably not, BUT if the Patriots are proved to be liars and cheaters after the investigation don't insult our intelligence and say you`re happy they got caught because its too obvious you`re hoping -beyond a doubt- for them to be proven innocent. At least admit that.

 

1. unless the balls leak it should not matter

2. I would of already tested them and released the findings if i was running the investigation. I don't know if they were alfeady tested or not. For some reason they are being tight lipped on this. My point is only that its very easy to confirm or disprove the explination offeredby the patriots organization.

3. The question im raising is why is it taking this long to determine if the balls were tampered with. They have all the balls in their custody and they could of easily been all checked in less than 24hrs. Tracing the chain of custody might take a few days and the interviewing everyone maybe takes several days but it certainly should not take more than two weeks to determine if foul play is involved.

why is it 3 weeks ago and they still have not even suggested if they think the balls were tampered with. We do not even know if they trying to determine who the offender is or if they are still trying to determine if the deflation was a natural phenomina. Its not a complex question.

by all appearances they seem to be stalling on releasing info that one could reasonable assume they had weeks ago. If they believe the pats are innocent come out and say so. If they think something happened but have not figured out what yet,than say that. There is no reason for them to continue to stand mute now that we are past the superbowl.


IMO it looks like the evidence is going to damage their image and they are sitting on it while they try to figure out how to do damage control on whatever the evidence points too. They seem like they are protecting themselves by hiding information from the public.

 

Thats the thing we do have hard numbers in so much as we know all the balls were between 12-13psig

you agree with that dont you?

 

You might be right but it is certainly reasonable to expect the league to conduct a competent investigation and offer a reasonable explination

 

12.5-13.5psi, yes.

 

All I'm saying, is that those balls that were a "tick under" do not mean that they were tampered with. Even the one that was way under, just happened to be in possession of the Colts for 20 minutes. It's fine if you want to disregard the theories there, but don't act like I'm the short-sighted one here.

 

i can honestly say i hope they are innocent. This whole mess puts a black eye on the integrity of the game.

 

Why can't you just admit that all I'm saying is to stop jumping to conclusions when there is no proof of anything? That is ALL I'm saying.

And I will be happy if it turns out there was proof of tampering, and I can shove my Patriots friends faces in it.

 

this is part of the problem, what the heck is a tick? They need to release real numbers so people can draw intelligent conclusions

 

False. They didn't log the balls before the game so they have no idea what the starting points for each ball was. We just know they ended up within regulation. For all we know, all of their balls could have started at 13.5 and ended at 13, and some closer to 12.5. According to the latest leak (unconfirmed until the reports are out) only one Patriots ball was 2 lbs, other, a few were closer to 1, but some were right at the mark or just a tick below. We're talking 12.4 or 12.3 or so.

 

They don't have numbers.

 

With regard to the NFL you are asking for too much IMO because you ask me to play their digusting "under the rug game". The NFL never wants us to jump to any conclusions. They take their time to destroy evidence (spygate) and disregard facts (Rice) so they can ask us not to jump to conclusions the next time. Since they do it jumping to conclusions is all we can do.
Honestly, expecting the Pats to cheat and the NFL to keep it under the rug is not jumping a conclusion anymore, it's experience.
Fool me once, shame on you (NFL), fool me twice, shame on me. I'm not going to put any shame on me because of Goodell and co.

 

Agreed! The NFLs track record has not earned them the benefit of doubt. Goddell spe ifically has a track record of b3ing inconsistent with fines and punishments. Judging from appearences he seems to base his decisions on rule violations according to how it makes the league look best. He sweeps as much as he can under the rug and only comes down hard when he has no way of hidding the facts. He is the biggest proboem the integrity of the league has.

 

But what if it turns out there is no proof? I guess you can think whatever you want, but I'm just saying it's pointless without proof.

 

evidence is a better word to use and there is evidence and it needs to be released. What the evidence suggests depends on what it is.


would you be satisfied if the nfl deystroys all evidence and pubically states there was no wrong doing and nobody is going to be held accountable?


The nfl has n8t ezrned our trust to just accept their conclusion without showing what evidence they have that lead them to it.

 

For some I have no proof of the significance of spygate because the tapes have been burnt. For me the fact that the tapes got burned is proof of its significance. So yes, I have to think what I want and I'm sure the NFL is happy that people call it pointless questioning their integrity without proof. And those who don't stop asking (legit) questions will get called conspiracists, which of course makes them look stupid just because of the word itself.

That's how politics work everyday and everywhere.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not talking about proof of Spygate. They obviously did it. It's just it wasn't simply the Patriots doing it. They may have done it after the memo, but the practice was widespread.

I'm talking about proof of tampering with the balls. There has been zero proof given. That, of course, doesn't mean that the proof doesn't exist somewhere, just that we haven't been told any exists.

 

No.... it might of been widespread before the memo but after that most teams stopped and NE continued its practice. They had an unfair advantage and they were punished for it.

as far as tampering with the ball goes. aparentaly 2 teams made the same complaint. I agree that we should have more information before passing judgement. I also think if the nfl drags th I s thing out it will go against their credability.

 

I don't even care anymore. America doesn't care anymore. They will get away with it. Just like everything else they've gotten anyway with.

 

I can't help myself...

Here is my theory...theory

Firstly, I think the Pats definitely could have "heated the balls up" through the process of getting them game ready. I don't mean used hot air or a hot room. I mean they rubbed them until they were warmer. Here is a quick test. Rub your pant leg vigorously for 20 seconds. Do you pants get warmer? Does your leg get warmer? Yes and Yes and I am wearing long johns. Lets say the Pats do this for 30 minutes to get the balls ready. Could the air in the ball possibly get warmer? Maybe. Is this illegal? Nope. All team are allowed to rub, scrub, prepare the balls the way the QB wants them. Calm down, we haven't started talking about air pressure yet but the air in the balls is certainly warmer than the outside air.

Secondly, they bring balls to the official that have a psi of 12. They ask the official to set them at 12.5 psi. This is were the NFL dropped the ball, no pun intended. It is starting to look like the officials may have not even weighed or set all the balls. It is "known" that some officials only do the squeeze test. If this is true then the psi between 12.5 and 13.5 is void. Let's assume they did weigh each of the footballs and set them to 12.5. Great we start the game in 2 hours.

On a side note...it was about 30 degrees at my home a couple of nights ago and I think someone broke into my garage. No no don't worry, nothing was stolen. It's just that in the morning it was about 10 degrees and the tire light on my car came on. Weird because I didn't let air out my tires so therefore someone must have broken in and let the air out. Maybe they also used my garage as a bathroom.

Game time. 20 degrees and a wet cold day. This is where it get's crazy. One ball is down almost 2 psi. That balls is reported after being in possession of the Colts for some time. The other balls are also down. In fact 11 of 12 are down 1-2 psi. Oops, no wait they are down only 1 psi. Oops, wait, 11 of 12 are down just a tick. Life .1 or .2 or .3 psi? You mean like 12.2 or 12.3 or 12.4? Maybe.

Would it be illegal for the Pats to request the 12.5 psi knowing the temp would drop the psi and make the ball go under the limit? How would a team combat the forces of nature and stay within the rules? Should they monitor and add more air? Probably not. Adding air after the officials "set" them is illegal. Hmm, quite a quadmire we have here. Unless they actually stuck the needle in them to let air out, which would be violation, then this investigation looks like it may just be a bunch hot air.

 

That's what it looks like to me as well.

 

I still have no other explanation for the Warren article. The ridiculous fumble statistics at the very least deserve some explanation. The deflated ball phenomenon offers the best likely cause, outside offs superhuman coaching abilities.