Merged: End of the owners meetings nuggets..good stuff; Omar K. Write-up.

Problem is you argued that Earl Thomas wasn't good at all and would be a bust, which is obviously not the case. Nobody would even care if you weren't so strident about it and all your other opinions (like Peyton Manning never being able to play again) If you are going to take these incredibly strong positions and belittle people who disagree with you are going to get ribbed when you end up wrong.

 

From Joe Philbin's mouth:

 

Wrong. I never said Thomas would be a bust. I never said Peyton Manning would never play again. That's the spin those of you want to put on my comments when I do take a strong position with my view. When I take a strong position on a view like that, it is because I know I'm right.

 

As much as I give everyone on this site the benefit of the doubt and quite a bit of credibility, We have multiple coaches including our own head coach stating they have seen him do more than what you claim, and do it well... and are confident in him. We have also linked vids, gifs, time stamps, reports and stats to show he can do more than what you claim he can. I'm not sure what you want at this point. If you don't like Wallace, fine. If you don't like Philbin, fine. you are just coming off as bitter and spiteful at this point. As soon as I heard about our interest in Wallace way back when it first broke, I did my own research on film of him, and also went on as many steelers boards as i could to get a consensus of fans opinions on him. All signs point to the fact that he is a better route runner than is given credit for and can be a major game changer in this offense whether you like it or not.

 

MYAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

 

You didn't?

I don't want to get into a whole argument with you because it really doesn't matter at this point, but I recall you were very strong in your belief that Manning would never play again, or never be effective again. And you were proven wrong on that, at least for last year.

 

So, let's take me out of the equation. What are you saying to Greg Cosell, who does film study and has no reason to demean or puff up Mike Wallace at all, when he says that Mike Wallace is still mostly a vertical threat based on the film he watches and will not run the outs or digs with any consistency? He's got no dog in the race. He was asked that on the finsiders show where they were discussing the top three free agent wide receivers.

If we listen to most of you guys on here, then Mike Wallace is apparently Jerry Rice as a route runner but just hasn't been asked to run a full route tree yet.

 

2 things I never understood about the Earl Thomas arguments:

1) He was a bad run defender because he was undersized. Undersized...maybe. But the guy laid the wood according to his Texas film. He played much bigger than the 195 or whatever he was.

2) The fact that too much was made of his run defending at all: Way too much emphasis was made about his inability to stop the run (which I'm still not sure is or ever was true) when the guy had special ball skills and instincts.

 

There is a difference between 'cannot' and 'has not been asked to'. Since you make it a habit to bring this up in almost every thread (including onces that are not about MW) its been pointed out that there were several games that he has ran a plethora of complete route trees. I dont have the link, but one game in specifics was noted on this board that pointed out EVERY route wallace ran and it was ridiculous [the amount of patterns he completed in one game], meanwhile producing a disgusting stat line, you however did not respond to the comment of it.

I'm gonna go ahead and trust our head coach, and other head coaches judgement on MW over that of Greg Cosell, and thats that. My point is you have been proven mostly incorrect on numerous occasions about the subject and still manage to bring up your argument on almost any reply you make. This is like the 2.0 version of Shou's 50,000 polls about how tannehill is garbage and brian hartline is a all-pro WR and was held back by garbageahill.

 

I don't doubt Wallace hasn't run crisp routes. I think the issue is...can he run crisp routes?

Based on the tape, I'm sure many are inclined to say he cannot...because he hasn't. But what if, because of his speed and prior coaching, its never been all that important?

Point is, Philbin has seen the same tape as you and Cosell, but he's also talked to Wallace and based on that, he may feel he can teach Wallace to be better at his routes. Is that far fetched?

 

Thats what i'm saying. Even if the evidence mostly proves otherwise, he has shown on a few occasions that he 'can'. and there is a difference between not being able to do something, and not needing to do something. because your "one trick" got you 8 TDs a year in that system.

 

But only half his TDs came on passes that went further than 20yds past the LOS (in the air).

 

Excellent point.

 

I have not been proven wrong about anything with Mike Wallace.

 

Joe Philbin also has a vested interest in this. It is certainly possible that Joe Philbin thinks that his staff can "make" Mike Wallace a better route runner and give him a better chance to utilize his speed because of it. However, we are talking about a 4 year NFL veteran that was a 4 year starter at some junior college in Oxford, MS, and he hasn't learned how to be a strong route runner yet.

 

If there was not a question about Mike's route running ability, then why would Joe Philbin have the need to defend his route running?

 

Thats your opinion, and that is okay.

Just like it is my opinion that the Mike Wallace signing thread is 25+ pages of video, and statistical evidence proving you are incorrect in saying that he 'cannot' run full route trees or a multitude of them.

 

Right, and it could simply because his previous coaches were just enamored with his speed and didn't give 11 damns how well he ran his routes. And maybe talking to him, as Philbin has, revealed that. Its not crazy, KB? Personally that sounds more likely, then Ross demanding Wallace over Jennings and forcing Ireland and Philbin to deal with it...considering Jennings would have created almost as much buzz.

 

Grass is green, and reporters copy others or try to overstate the obvious to add negative effects to a situation or article. I.e. Miami signs MW, which is a good thing, and outside of our local/beat writers, it would be a better read to the other side of the spectrum to make it seem like a disaster piece. I.e. He won't fit. Only a vertical threat. Woe is the dolphins! Thats how it works and I don't need to tell you that.

It was mentioned as such, and brought up as an obvious question to ask. our head coach said otherwise, and he was not the first to do so, either.

 

I hope he runs weak routes and gives us 8 TDs a year with it.

 

You said he was too small and not s top 20 pick. And that's okay we are all wrong from time to time but you said it matter of fact factly... Just like you're doing with Wallace now

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Wallace's route running prowess (or lack thereof) may or may not be overstated, but the guy has been successful in Pittsburgh enough so that he warranted the #1 FA spot this year, despite his issues with the Stillers not wanting to pay him elite money... The guy can't be as bad as some have portrayed him and still had the yards and TDs he's had in 4 yrs... Any way you look at it, his presence upgrades our WR corp. Even if they put him out there for nothing but 9's and go-routes, which ain't gonna happen, it's going to enhance what Hartline, Bess and Gibson can do, as well as Keller...

One other little tidbit about Wallace that is in our favor...he's missed the last two offseasons, 2011 from the lockout and 2012 he held out until a week before the season started... This has to be an advantage, despite learning a new offense and new terminology...

 

I think the other things that doesn't get talked about is how badly Batch and Leftwich played when they were in. Those two started 4 games for the Steelers, and then Big Ben was also learning a new system and he still had 8 tds. This kid just knows how to get to the endzone. I'm excited to see him play in our offense and help Tannehill improve.

 

Yet, he was asked to do more than be just a vertical threat in the new offense, and his numbers declined. His average yards per catch went from 17 in the previous year to 13 last year. His catch percentage was around 54-56%. He had the highest drop percentage of his career. His catch percentage on 20+ yard passes was 19%.

I think some of you think Miami is going to be able to plug him into this offense, and he is suddenly going to become Greg Jennings. Most of you probably don't realize that from 2007-2011, no receiver in football caught more 20+ yard receptions than Greg Jennings, despite the fact that the Packers offense was not centered around throwing the ball to him deep.

 

I would not say that. They offered him 10m a year. That may not be tops but that is pretty damn close to elite money in my book. He turned down 10 with them and took 12 with us. Pitt wanted him back. obviously we offered him quite a bit of guaranteed money, but thats still part of the contract.

 

I firmly believe his previous coaches haven't even tried to get him to run better routes. Speed is a drug in the NFL, it makes everyone from scouts to gurus to coaches, stupid.

 

No hes going to be Mike Wallace, who is a proven playmaker and threat whether its a deep route, or a small route that he turns into scores or big plays with his feet. Most of his plays and touchdowns are from 15 yards or less. His own team @ pitt didnt center the scheme around throwing him the ball deep, thats a fact. I think you are over estimating the impact of route running vs skill sets in a context where it does not really apply.

 

This could mean everything or nothing, you really can't prove the correlation because a lot more factors into it then just what you want it to.

 

I think you underestimate just how important precise route running is in a timing based offense. You can't run a 10 yard out at 13 yards in this offense the way Mike Wallace has done in his previous offense that was not based around timing.

 

I think the idea of Mike Wallace as a decoy is two things. First of all, this is a very expensive decoy. Second, the actual effect "taking the top off the defense" has on the other receivers within the scheme is minimal at best and has always been overrated by the casual fans on this board. Mike Wallace's value is in his ability to go deep. That's it. He's the best in the NFL at doing that, but he's not nearly the best at doing anything else on the field.

 

I have a wait and see policy on this. I also think Joe will use him in other ways because of the way he views receivers as needing to run all the route tree. With that said, I blelive Miami will draft a receiver, whether it is Austin or someone else.

 

So you are going to stand firm by this statement even though its a fact that half or more of his yearly touchdowns and big plays are from short routes that HE extends with his legs after the catch, and / or are 15 yard passes or less. I mean this will now be the third time its mentioned just in this thread alone. Your ability to deny and dance around the fact that he is a huge YAC threat because of his speed, making him a very huge weapon on a small and intermediate routes is unreal. regardless of their 'crispyness'

 

Just in case it gets missed

KB is right though. Wallace as an uncanny ability to go deep ... after catching the ball near the LOS

 

What skill set are we talking about though? Wallace's biggest skill is his ability to run fast in a straight line. His straight line speed is exceptional. However, his lateral quickness and overall agility is average to below average at best.