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Miami Heralds Greg Cote: The Dolphins Should Find A QB They Believe In

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shamegame13, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Paraphrased (Link at bottom)

    He starts off by talking about how both WAS and KC feel good with their QB situations after the trade. With the draft looking good with Kirk Cousins now officially in the For Sale window.

    He questions if Miami really does believe if Tannehill can lift the team to greatness despite 6 years lack of evidence.

    He says we are stuck in a QB purgatory with a guy who isn’t good enough to be excited about or a guy who isn’t bad enough to fire. He does acknowledge Miami publicly coming out and saying he’s the guy while mentioning he’s turning 30 this summer, coming off ACL surgery, with zero Pro Bowls and zero Playoff Games in his resume.

    He says basically the time is now to consider future/different options with the QB rich draft on the way and Kirk Cousins standing there (Who he says is the better QB but how much better is the question).

    He mentions that a perfect situation would be one like KC’s. Having the ability to move on from a average quarterback because you have a first round, groomed QB that is ready to take over.

    He says Alex Smith is a better QB than Tannehill and it would be easier to move on from Tannehill than it would KC-Smith but we don’t have a Mahomes like KC did.

    He talks about putting trade feelers out there and try to gauge trade interest in Tannehill while seeing how much money it would take to get Cousins.


    He mentions an option of keeping Tannehill and drafting Mayfield to create the KC situation.

    He finishes off by saying there is no reason to believe Tannehill will become something he isn’t, a transcendent type of QB that can lift his team and make up for shortcomings that are elsewhere on the team.

    He says Miami needs to find a franchise QB or this stuck in mediocrity thing won’t end.


    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/greg-cote/article197712334.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I mostly agree. Tannehill has shown what he is, a slightly above average NFL starter, but not a franchise QB.

    If we have any chance of getting a true franchise QB then I am all for it.
     
  3. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ugh, Cousins would be a lateral move for the most part.

    Ryan has shown he can elevate us, yet.....but neither has Kurt offing Cousins.

    We are doing it right, you like Ryan, you give him the key's in 2018 and draft for the future.
     
    smahtaz likes this.
  4. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    I agree with Cousins being lateral and I don’t care for it... but if you were able to trade Tannehill for a late first/early second and sign Cousins to maybe slightly more than what you had Tannehill for... is it still lateral? We got the extra high pick now and a QB on the same level/maybe even slightly better but at a slightly higher price (more than likely).

    I like the idea of Tannehill in 2018 and draft Baker at 11.... this situation works out for a lot of teams, one way or the other.
     
  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    That's tough.

    I don't think anyone is giving that up to be honest, but if they offered a late 1? I'd think hard about it. Even then give me a Viking cast off at 8-10M a year and build the rest of the team. We need some damn depth.

    !00% on Baker, it gives us a shot at seeing what Ryan can do AND have an asset at the position.
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Is Cousins a lateral move from Tannehill? Statistically speaking it's not.

    Run a t-test for 2 samples of unequal sample sizes on their game-by-game passer ratings (for all games started or min 20 attempts if not started) and the probability the two sets of ratings come from different QB's is a whopping 96.31%!
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00/gamelog/
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00/gamelog/

    So past performance I think clearly shows Cousins > Tannehill.
     
  7. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Exactly, put some heat on Ryan....

    Drew Brees had heat in SD with Rivers and ended up balling out and making his let go a tough decision on SD organization.

    Same with Alex Smith and Kap in SF.

    And again Alex Smith and Mahomes in KC.
     
  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I mean it is certainly arguable either way. Kirk hasn’t exactly had the best weapons around him of late.

    I just don’t sss the difference in Ryan to Kirk as being significant. Could be wrong.
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    For sure.

    Silly to drop a QB that looked very impressive once his comfort level set in.

    If it were Russel Wilson then I’d say let’s do it. But those types of QBs are rarely FA’s.

    Drafting a QB (assume one is their they like) in round 1 or 2 is just smart football. You can do that and still believe in Ryan.
     
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  10. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I'm certainly not opposed to drafting a QB early, but Coach Gase has been pretty consistent as to his regard of RT. The cited article is the reason I don't read any of the local writers anymore.
     
  11. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Writers for the most part are “entertainers” be ready for more insane predictions this offseason.
     
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  12. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Oh boy, clearly, your trying to make this my article and I don’t write for the Herald and my name isn’t Greg. I’m simply the messanger delivering a Miami written article. I do not know who you are, I’m sorry, and sorry I don’t post any of your content. I don’t dismiss you, I just think you write with a lot of bias towards Tannehill with all due respect. I know he’s one of your favorite players and I can read it in your writing. No offense.
     
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  13. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Every team and I mean, EVERY, will say they believe in their incumbent starter unless they have their new plan at QB on the team already. It’s February, what do you want Gase to say? Lol Of course he will backup Tannehill because it’s more than likely Tannehill will be the starter in 2018 and he don’t want a disgruntled QB. The Question is do we get our future QB in this years draft....
     
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  14. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Are you kidding me? Why don’t you re-read your question to me or better yet, just ask it again because you will see I answered it, CLEARLY.

    P.S. How many times are you gonna tell me im on your ignore list before you finally put me there? You literally told me I was the first ever last week... what happened? You always say it like I’m gonna lose sleep or something lol. Not trying to start a fight, I just legitimately wonder this now...
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No you didn't.

    He didn't accuse you of being Cote. He asked how come you take Cote's word as gospel but ignore others who actually watch and evaluate the tape.

    All you did, was make weird accusations then claim Aqua is biased.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  16. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    That’s why I discredit him... his bias... alas question answered... keep up the trolling work though! Your doing great, Lil D!
     
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  17. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Lol let’s see how long this last...
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Please focus for a second.

    He wasn't just talking about himself and his analysis.

    But fine let's say he was....you're take on his analysis isn't valid. The reason it isn't valid is because you're dismissing the actual analysis but not based on flaws in the actual analysis.

    I challenge you to actually find flaws in his analysis.
     
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  19. seekerone

    seekerone Member

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    If Ryan gets tossed from this team, I bet he'll be top 10 somewhere else. That will be due to his ability combined with the likeliness of having an OL actually blocking for him anything better then dismally. Yeah the OL was better at the end of last year (still worse than average) and possibly this year. Ryan played lights out last year until he got hurt. He didn't play this year. So, no. We don't have the final answer about who the real RT is. And that's what bugs people after 7 years. It seems some people that stood for him in the past are tired of the story. There's always an excuse. Maybe it's part of the Miami curse, but those excuses have been pretty valid from what I've seen. We'll see if Miami sends him off to some other team for maybe picking up an extra pick. I hope not, but I can't say that would be a bad decision if you could get someone like Cousins or better and a decent pick. I think you'd see Ryan pull the 'ole Miami curse, and find is way to a super bowl and all the talking heads dissing him now would be singing his praises and reminding us about how stupid Miami was for letting him go when he was clearly on the edge of turning elite. His replacement would then become the second most sacked quarterback ever if we fail to solve the real problem. Or, what could happen is we fix the OL, get a different QB who has success with a decent line, and then people can spew all over themselves saying how it was Ryan's fault. Right now it looks like we keep him and we get to see how this story plays out. But even if we don't, it'll still be interesting watching his career from this point on. Maybe he goes somewhere with a great line and he stinks up the place. I doubt it boys.
     
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  20. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Okay, for starters, he will only cherry pick and show his good throws on here, all the good throws that he makes but none of the bad ones, I’ve seen plenty of bad decisions from Tannehill.... moving on. I really don’t need Mrs. Tannehill type write ups to form an opinion on him.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's not true. He talks about his deficiencies and shows his screw ups.

    And you're still not getting it.
     
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  22. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Where? When? Please show me lol I’ll wait
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Just go read the links in his analysis.

    But you're also still missing the point.
     
  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Cousins has played to levels over 16 games Tanny has never done. That said, there is no guarantee Cousins year 1 in this offense would be better than Tanny in year 3 would. Cousins has played better (and I give him credit after his two top targets left this past year, he wasn't horrible). His INTS need to come down though. I'd like to see it come back down to 2.0 or lower (preferably lower).

    But it's not enough of a jump and could very well be lateral because of learning a new system. Tanny's 3rd year in the system is going to help.
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why now? Because if you wait another year, it's another year. If the opportunity comes along where we can grab someone the staff and FO believe could be the next great thing, they should take him. Only good things happen when you have QBs who can play. Don't be stupid like AJ Smith and let Brees go without compensation (same thing he did when he turned down offers for Michael Turner). Having Brees and Rivers on your staff is a good thing. They let the wrong one go IMO. But that's on AJ.

    You can always flip a QB even unproven ones. And if your drafted QB is the shiznit, you're looking at 15 years of great QB play, vs the 6-8 Tanny may give you.
     
  26. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Thank you!!!! Round of applause!!’
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That said, I'm not reaching for one. It has to be the right spot and the right guy.
     
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  28. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Me neither, I said, Baker at 11? Lol is that reaching? Read post #4 in this thread if proof needed.
     
  29. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Tannehill is a damn fine QB when things stay on script, his biggest weakness is when he’s asked to be a magician and pull a rabbit out of a hat.
    Put him on a disciplined team with a well structured offence and he’ll be a great QB. I can see Bill Belichek getting a few more SB rings if he acquired Tannehill now (assuming his knee holds up).
    Put him in a situation with inconsistent blocking, receivers who don’t run the routes they should, RBs who don’t pass block effectively and OCs who are either antiquated or too predictable, and well you get what he’s done in Miami.

    Russel Wilson would have done better in Miami than Tannehill, even if their overall talent was the same, simply because he has a better ability to manage and produce in chaos.
     
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  30. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    He's had similar 8 game stretches like that before.The famed 8 game stretch of 2016 where he had 13tds and 5int comp% 69.10 and QB rating of 100.1

    2015 week 5-12 14tds 6ints comp% 64.39, qb rating 95.5.
    2014 week 6-13 14tds 4ints comp% 70.85, qb rating 100.1
    2013 week 9-14 (6 games) 12tds 5ints comp% 64.66, qb rating 93.9

    Thats the book on him has good stretches and has really bad stretches. Inconsistent, not a bad QB by any means but not somebody you can count to consistently give you his best. He starts slow picks up in the middle part of the season and ends bad. Thats his MO.
     
  31. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It's beyond bias at this point.

    It's one of the most QB-rich drafts ever and we got people clamoring about 8 games of an entire career rather than double down to increase our odds - maybe even have a trade-able asset out of it. 30 freakin' years old though off an ACL injury, but the consensus among these people seems like he'll play to 40 like Tom Brady.

    Enough with the excuse making already. Make Tanny f*cking compete.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  32. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    Yes most none HOF QB's may be as inconsistent but if you want to remain a starter your bad stretches can't be that bad. If at his best for 8 games is about 14 tds 5ints 68%completion and 95 qb rating than his bad stretches need to be like 8 tds 6ints 60% 85 qb rating. I don't know if that makes as much sense as it did in my head.

    Pretty much your bad stretches shouldn't see your numbers go down drastically. For example the losses we had in 2016 Ryan had 4tds 8ints 66.24comp% and 75.8 qb rating.

    Wentz in his losses for 2017 had 3tds 2ints 59.34comp% 84.5 qb rating
    Ryan in his losses for 2017 6tds and 5ints 62.44comp% 83.0 qb rating
    Wilson in his losses for 2017 14tds 6ints 56.13comp% 84.5 qb rating
    Cousins in his losses for 2017 14td 10ints 62.93comp% 85.1 qb rating

    Tannehill is the only one of this bunch that threw twice as many ints as he did td's, thats drastically bad.
     
  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Speaking of excuse-making......

    Enoughs enough with Gase and that massive ego of his. The whole "I didn't want the offense to revert, so I hired Jay Cutler" is a bunch of malarkey. Maybe get off your *** and draft/sign a guy with the skill sets you're looking for much earlier in the process to back up Tanny.

    Dude's lack of preparation in that regard is astounding.
     
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  34. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    Well i wanted to use the most current #'s as 2016 was Tannehill's best season and considered to be the most progress he has made thus far, i thought it best to use that as a starting point. I didn't think it would be fair to use career numbers since Tannehill was shackled with Philbin his first 4 years.
     
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  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not true though. Other QBs have had 16 game seasons with 100 rating or near it. Including Cousins I might add.

    I don't think we're far apart tho. There are some who say no qb Tanny is the answer. Some say absolutely qb Tanny is not the answer. And the rest of us in between with, we'll it depends
     
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  36. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Aint no one trading a first or second round pick for a quarterback that has missed a year of action... bringing Tannehill back is in the best interest to our team but he has to earn the job back, it cant be given to him. He should compete against a rookie or a seasoned vet.
     
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  37. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not saying he cannot or does not produce when things go base over apex. Just that other QBs are better at it than him. For the 20 gifts you have of Tanny there'd probably be 100 from Wilson over a similar time period.

    Tom Brady almost never produces those rabbit out of a hat plays, partly because his system doesn't break down that often, but he doesn't execute in chaos that well. However he's still considered a candidate GOAT.
     
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  38. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    I've seen tweets of RT throwing a difficult throw into tight coverage, while a WR runs free down the middle or sideline. Maybe those are the bad .gif's . His tape is overwhelmingly positive, if it weren't for the OLine/WR/RB's and Coaching. There's a give and take, ya know.

    Tannehill should have had competition, serious competition, ever since Garrard's knee screwed up.
     
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  39. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Jesus F'ing Christ man
     
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  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It never ends.

    The people that tout Thill put actual work and effort into it explaining why he's actually good and is a victim of circumstance. they do it with actual evidence of Thill playing.

    The people that crap on Thill literally dismiss all that work and provide zero evidence of anything Thill has or hasn't done, and instead bring up random assumptions of what other QBs have done in vastly different situations.

    It is like a person having a broken arm because they fell down, and the doctor is telling the person how to fix it, but instead the person dismisses the doctor because they saw another person fall the same way and they didn't break their arm.
     
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