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Michael Egnew

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think maybe we need a good discussion about how good/not good Egnew is doing. It seems to be a really hotly debated item on other boards but not so much here.

    Personally, I think Egnew is the biggest official casualty of Hard Knocks' super in depth analscope. The Hard Knocks cameras are everywhere, and the NFL Films people like storylines, and an intriguing storyline is a 3rd round pick that had coaches scratching their heads at times.

    I've heard everything about Egnew at this point. He's a bust because he can't catch a ball to save his life. He's a bust because he has a blank face while getting yelled at. I guess if he practiced a good pirate face while being yelled at, he wouldn't be a bust. He's a bust because he doesn't get separation in single coverage. He's a bust because he forgot to block for a wide receiver after the receiver caught the ball while Egnew was running routes. He's a bust because Mike Sherman said he'd cut him during a yell session.

    The ironic part to me is that if not for the Hard Knocks cameras it's clear to me that most people would watch the preseason games and think that Egnew is having a so-so camp, or maybe even a good camp.

    They'd see the plays where his obvious size and athleticism make him an intriguing target up the seam. They'd see him getting open. They'd see him competently blocking defensive ends in both the run and in pass protection, surprisingly well. They'd see him level that DB in the Carolina game. They'd see him make a SUPERB catch on a tipped ball as he was going to the ground for a big 31 yard gain. They'd see him make another catch in traffic, and a nice catch on a ball that was placed poorly around his knees.

    But they'd also see the two drops. They would also see him have some poor blocking plays. I very much doubt that many people here or elsewhere could point out the play where Dan Campbell yelled at Egnew for not blocking, unless they had a heads up about it. But there were others. One play in particular Egnew is in the backfield lead blocking for Lamar Miller like a fullback (not his strong suit, you can imagine) and Egnew was too hesitant. Miller ran up behind him, reached out his hand and pulled the Brendan Fraser/Matt Damon maneuver from School Ties.

    I think the conclusion would be, he has ups, he has downs, he shows flashes, he makes mistakes...he's a rookie. That would be the conclusion in my honest opinion.

    But because Mike Sherman yelled and because he doesn't lacks a pirate face, people are legitimately talking about him being cut.

    Let me share with you a play that might have helped him stem this overwhelming tide of negative attention. It was a play at the end of the Tampa Bay game.

    My initial read on the play was that Egnew got a step on Jacob Cutrera the linebacker, but that Devlin put the ball too low and I'm not sure why Devlin chose a low heater to his tight end in the back of the end zone like he's throwing to Denarius Moore, rather than a high ball which is more typical when you're throwing to a tight end in the back of the end zone.

    The controversy stems once again from Hard Knocks. On initial viewing in real time it's not necessarily crystal clear that Cutrera knocked this ball away. And during Hard Knocks, immediately after the play they showed either someone up in the booth or maybe down on the field, I forget their exact words but whoever it was essentially treated it like a drop. They were clearly frustrated with Egnew on the play.

    After examining the play very closely, I come to the same conclusion on that end zone play that I originally had on first viewing. Michael Egnew clearly had a step on Jacob Cutrera the linebacker, as he crossed the back of the end zone. However, Jacob Cutrera has 4.6 speed in his own right and as Egnew drifted his depth to the back of the end zone looking for the jump ball, this created an angle that allowed Cutrera to make up about half a step.

    Even so, if the ball is placed correctly, this is a touchdown. Because it wasn't, Cutrera was able to slap it away.

    [​IMG]

    That's the initial view which emphasizes that Egnew had a step on Jacob Cutrera. Below you'll see the final frame.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, I've captured the exact moment when Jacob Cutrera's outstretched hand got between the ball and Michael Egnew, slapping it away.

    What you're seeing in that final picture is that Egnew had plenty of space in front of him. There was a safety in front of him but he was not close enough to threaten Egnew even if he jumped for the football. The safety was not a threat.

    Michael Egnew had floated to the back of the end zone expecting a high ball as is most often the case with a tight end, as opposed to a wide receiver. The problem is Pat Devlin did not place the ball high. He placed the ball at chin level. The optimal placement would have been high and to the front of Michael so that he could use his significant leaping skills (37.5 inch vertical, 11'3" broad jump) to go up and get it.

    The thing is, if Pat Devlin places that ball correctly (something Egnew couldn't control), there is no talk about cutting Michael Egnew. There is no talk about him being a bust.
     
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That ball definitely wasn't where it should have been.

    I don't buy all this talk about cutting him. They couldn't have expected him to be producing much at this point. From what I see, he just seems like a guy whos head is spinning a little bit. When you make a couple of ordinary rookie mistakes, you can end up putting more pressure on yourself, and it will snowball. I'm not expecting much from him early, but I think he should flash more as the season progresses.
     
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  3. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Great photo and that ball certainly could have been placed in a spot that would have allowed only Egnew to be able to get a hand(s) on it.

    FWIW , I was listening to Joe Rose with Ben Volin last night and he thinks Egnew is very stiff and doesn't see a lot to offer hope. Of course Egnew was a pick that needed some time to learn and adapt from his Missouri days , and he may just be doing that.
     
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  4. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Secondary side effect: the "young Tony Romo" isn't criticized for his ball placement here.
     
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  5. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    From that capture it also looks like Devlin had pretty solid protection.
     
  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There is a reason he's 3rd string.
     
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  7. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not concerned about Egnew's hands personally, and he seems to get open well enough for a rookie TE. Only concern is blocking, but then again how much blocking will the TE be expected to do in this offense (in-line or from the FB position; not worried about him when he's split out or just down field)? How much will Egnew for that matter to be expected to block when he gets in (assuming he gets in mostly on packages that don't have just one TE)?
     
  8. Daben

    Daben Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we can also add that regardless of what certain coaches may have said that got highlighted on hard knocks, there is zero chance of Ireland, Gaine etc. cutting a third round pick with that kind of athletic ability after one camp. Such a situation is also a good example of why having a GM with some distance from the players allowing greater objectivity is a really good thing, regardless of whether Ireland is any good or not in the role.

    I think Egnew could actually really benefit from the approach Jim Turner suggested for Jerry - don't back off the reps, give him more, don't give him time to over think things, just keep the reps and playtime coming.
     
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  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Cutting him would be [USE A BETTER WORD]. That being said his play has been doodoo.
     
  10. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    It has nothing to do with Hard Knocks as the reason I am down on him. With as much footage as they shoot you are going to get shots of everyone screwing up. For me it's the game play. Honestly if you have a receiving TE who can't catch what good is he? You can be the most athletic guy out there but that doesn't make you a football player. For that superb catch is nice but I would much rather that fall incomplete and he catch the routine ones that hit him
    In the hands. I am not even going to mention his blocking skills. Fact is he is going to make the 53 because of potential and chance to see if the staff can turn him around.
     
  11. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My concern with Egnew is he seems to lack athleticism. I may be way off with this but he appears to move very slow and deliberate. Does he look to you Guys as a TE that is going to beat linebackers? I see a possession type TE, not a guy who is a matchup problem for defenses.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So after a career chock-full of catches in traffic, high catches, low catches, etc...two drops in preseason (one under extenuating circumstances) means he can't catch?

    Even though he showed so stunningly on that 31 yard play that he actually has good hands?

    Really?
     
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  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The curse of the tall athlete is for people to not realize just how fast he's running. Like I said Jacob Cutrera is actually a fast linebacker but he wasn't going to catch up to Michael on that crossing route in the back of the end zone unless he undercut the route and therefore gave himself a distance advantage (i.e. you're running a 40 yard dash but I'm running a 38 yard dash). And what you don't see in those frames is the move that got him that separation to begin with, which was pretty nice.
     
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  14. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He was at or near the top for tight ends in just about every catagory at the combine. I was able to watch this and was really impressed with his athleticism.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He ran a 4.48 at the Combine. Don't particularly care what the "official" time was. I re-timed them all myself using HD video and made the starting point for the timer uniform across the board. He ran a 4.48, the same time that Mo Claiborne ran.
     
  16. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    No one said he couldn't catch.
     
  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I hear he's our best backup.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You just said you're down on the guy because what good is a pass catching specialist that can't catch. I'm saying, do two drops in the preseason, and another incredible catch off a tipped pass, really suggest you should be down on him on that basis?
     
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  19. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    My problem is, what is he doing positive?
     
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  20. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    I said what good is a receiving TE who can't catch. I never said Egnew can't catch.
     
  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    That kind of implies that he can't catch.
     
  22. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
  23. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Egnew is a rookie going through growing pains.

    He is SUPPOSED to be getting his *** chewed out and making mistakes, sure I wish he had more positive things to go on but I'm not calling this kid a bust. Not by a long shot.
     
  24. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    If in the final 2 preseason games Egnew plays at the same level or better, I bet you Hard Knocks will start pulling out all the positive praise about him and fans will start singing a different tune. Hard Knocks wants his story to be the guy who overcomes rookie struggles to shine.
    Look at the Vontae Davis follow up beat from this week's episode. Hard Knocks has decided that Vontae has overcome his struggles, but they omitted the fact that he remains demoted.
     
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  25. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    lol, I was thinking about that when they were saying that....
     
  26. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    No. That just means that's how you took it.
     
  27. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    If you're talking about Egnew and you say that phrase, it 100% implies you mean he can't catch. Maybe you didn't mean to imply it though.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    31 yard catch while diving to the ground off a tipped pass? Beating man coverage in the back of the end zone to where a competent throw nets you a touchdown?
     
  29. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I don't think anyone should be calling Egnew a bust or thinking about cutting him, but I do think that when the coaching staff has an attitude about a guy where they seem to be just shaking their heads in disgust about him, there's probably something going on regarding the way the guy approaches the game.

    It's okay if Egnew is having rookie developmental issues, but it's not okay if he's having issues that are a reflection of just not "getting it," whether that be due to intelligence or just lack of perseverance. And when I see the coaches seemingly shaking their heads in disgust about him, I get the sense that they believe he's just not getting it.

    Now, I will say when he absolutely blasted that guy after he was chastised for not blocking, that was a good sign, so we'll see if he can turn this around over time.
     
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  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A side effect of HK is an already cynical fanbase now can literally cut 3rd rd picks before the season begins.

    Chill out, he'll be fine..just keep playing him.
     
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  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Were they really shaking their heads in disgust at him? I didn't see that.

    If Dan Campbell is frustrated with him it's probably because Egnew is like the polar opposite of what Dan Campbell was as a TE. He probably wouldn't jive w/ Jermichael Finley, either.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    A premature judgement?
     
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  33. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    How so? Saying we shouldn't cut him but he hasn't been good is the opposite of premature.
     
  34. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I seem to remember a couple instances in the third episode of HK where they said something along the lines of "Egnew again..." as though exasperated with him.
     
  35. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    He's referring to the word in your post that was removed posthumously. He didn't see the previous word you had.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I dunno, I don't remember that. I remember frustration when he dropped that ball. And I'm going to be honest, the play where Campbell chewed him out wasn't even that bad, I think Campbell reamed him more to light a fire and see what happens rather than to correct something wrong. Which probably explains why he was so ecstatic when Egnew responded by laying out that DB.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I thought we were playing fill in the blank.
     
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  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    yeah, it's easy to see that Egnew is deeply bothered by the thought of being a disappointment, to the point he makes a serious & conscious effort to clock a defender in hopes of winning coach's approval. I get the impression Egnew is the type of player who will bleed for you if you demand it from him.
     
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  39. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    im a huge fan of egnew and i am not giving up on him, not every player drafted coming out of college is going to start out looking like a 5 year vet some need to be developed its the reason their are coaches.

    let him develop and he will develop into a big time weapon IMO
     
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  40. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quick Question, What was the reason Egnew was not a 1st or 2nd round pick? What was the knock on him coming out of College? Just curious.
     

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