Not sure about this move, Holmgren is not exactly a huge name in the NFL, not the type who will garner instant respect in the locker room and amongst free agents.
Holmgren headed to Browns Is Eric Mangini done after one season? Could be~! http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...LYF?slug=ap-browns-holmgren&prov=ap&type=lgns
Mort brought up...Marty Morninwig... The Homgren coaching tree is more like a cactus, the list of ex Holmgren Assistants is simply terrible. Sad thing is, Mangini had just gotten things beginning to turn around in Cleveland, but those two could never cohabitate the same team.
His ESPN contract forbids him from returning to coaching for a year, it will be 2011 before he can even think about it.
Thanks, I didn't know that. It's a shame, though. Gruden would be the perfect head coach for the Browns, IMO.
To me, Mangini is doing an alright job, but if he is fired, Rob Ryan or Leslie Frazier sound good. I used to like Ray Rhodes when he was coaching in Philly.
Since I GM the Browns for our PS3 Madden league, and I wanted to e-Parcells that franchise....I am willing to out GM Holmgren....my e-Parcells will out Holmgren him....... I will look to what he is doing of course for any pointers...hahahahaa And, I plan on canning Mangini end of season too. My mind was made up the day I was hired. (Cleveland Rocks)
I dont know if I will retain the #1 slot....been winning since I was hired (3-0 hehe) (much like the actual CLE franchise) Also, not sure if we will actually have real players from NCAA like SUH come over in our draft of if it will be "pretend names, etc". Will be fun regardless.
the problem with the browns firing mangini is his three year contract wouldnt they have to still pay him i think they are still paying crennel now they would have to pay the new coach that is a lot to tie into a head coach if anyone knows do tell mangini is awful and should be fired could be tough to do monetarily speaking
Well, I think we're planning on importing the players from NCAA 2010 into our Madden franchise, if we can. That way we can have a realistic draft.
I wouldnt be surprised if they kept Mangini while he plays Parcells and orchestrates the whole act. And really, how do football fans NOT know who he is, or consider him one of the bigger names in the NFL. He made two franchises from losers into winners, has a super bowl ring and at least 2 other appearances and generally fields consistently winning teams.
Hmm...could be because Holmgren went 4-12 or similar in Seattle his final season there and pretty much mailed the season in from Day 1? Add in he draftly poorly in Seattle and that has left them in the current difficulties, when Tuna or Dungy left a franchise, it was good for years afterwards.
Im not going to argue about other coaches - Tuna and Dungy both are greats - but to argue that Mike is NOT a good coach or personnel evaluator is just laugh worthy. Did his tenure in Seattle end perfectly? No, but he built them up as well. Not to mention Green Bay. He certainly cant do worse for the Browns than they've been doing, and is easily as good a move as hiring Gruden or Shanahan that people tend to piss themselves over. Did anyone WATCH the Broncos or Bucs the last few years?
Didn't end particularly well in Green Bay moving forwards after he left either. Holmgren was on the cusp of being fired in Seattle because he drafted poorly and would not relinquish GM duties until he got a ultimatum. All I'm saying about Holmgren is he is a lower tier type of Football Czar, he may do great, he may do poorly, but Cleveland is more bound to it's past than the Dolphins have been, Jim Brown has a hand in Franchise decisions for example.
Finished badly in Green Bay? An 11-5 record and 3 point last second loss to San Fran in the playoffs is bad? Hes also got a good eye for QBs, pulling the trigger on Favre and brough Hasslebeck to Seattle with him - not to mention Montana and Young from his San Fran days. Is he Bellicheat? No. Is he as good as Gruden, Shanahan? Yes. Dungy or Cowher I may place ahead of him, but they are coaches, not talent evaluator/GM types.
And when he left? iirc, Ray Rhodes went 8-8 and was fired, compare that to the Cowboys, Bucs, Colts, Patriots once Dungy and Tuna left. That would have been Ron Wolf, they traded the Falcons for Favre. Or http://sea.scout.com/2/816748.html Now I will happily grant that Homgren could be a rudder to an othewise rudderless ship, but some of the stuff that surrounds his tenure is simply not what happened. For example a #1 pick for Deon Branch?
Three consecutive years in Green Bay division winners. Four in Seattle. Three Super Bowl Appearences, 1 win. Exactly who on the market is better? Perhaps we are just not looking at this from the same perspective? Am I arguing Holmgren is the greatest coach/gm ever? No, I really dont think so. But some people claim this guy is a virtual nobody, when the truth is hes been a very very successful guy for 2 teams. As a pure coach Ill take Cowher or Dungy over them, but they both coached exemplary organizations. And whatever you say about Dungy, he couldnt win the big one in Tampa, and it took Cowher how long to break through and win finally? More than a year or two if memory serves right. Gruden? Coached Dungys team to a Super Bowl win (finally) and then went bust. Shanahan? Afer Elway/TD retired his teams never amounted to much. Im saying Holmgren is really up to par with some of the bigger names out there in terms of being a FO guru type guy, rather than pure coach. I dont think he actually ends up patrolling the Browns sideline.
Yeah if they want to remain the same old Browns....I think Morningwig had a 5-27 record with the Lions. A cactus is a pretty good likeness. As to Holmgren, say what you will padre, but Holmgren only had 3 losing seasons out of 17 as a HC. He took 2 different teams to the SB http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HolmMi0.htm IMO he's done pretty well overall.
As a HC ..sure..his job is larger than just Head Coach, he is to be their Parcell's and his history as a GM is simply terrible, and Free Agent's did not gravitate to Holmgren's Green Bay or Seattle. One of his big sticking points with the Pack was that he wanted more control over personnel decisions, this with Ron Wolf running herd in Green Bay, he got that control in Seattle and failed to be honest about it, in fact one of the two really good players he drafted with a #1 pick, Steve Hutchinson left via free agency, his trades were terrible and now he is charged with finding player pro talent when he himself never had any to speak of.
Wasn't Seattle in the superbowl just a few years back.......2005...............Ummmmm.....I believe the coach was Mike Holmgren. Maybe he not a Bill Parcells but he does have a good system and will make Cleveland a solid team
The hire was really important, not just because of the "name" guy involved in Holmgren but because its a change this franchise needs in terms of getting away from too many people having a say in what this franchise does. Listen to Trent Dilfer talk about his time there, he is excellent on TV and has been BRUTAL about what the Browns problems are. People like Jim Brown hanging around having a say in who plays, owners and GMs and coaches differing on who plays, who gets drafted, what direction they go in, etc. Now one person will make the calls, the coach will be allowed to coach the drafts will have a bigger plan behind them and the team will answer to one person. I'm not sure if Holmgren is the right person, time will tell, but this franchise needed to change the way it does business.
Exactly, Dilfer is quite correct, too many chefs in Cleveland. People forget that Belichek tried to do what Holmgren needs to do in Cleveland and he was run out of Ohio for doing so, this after making the playoffs with a Vinny Testaverde led team.
True, the front office appears to be the bigger problem, moreso than Belicheat thats for sure. They ruined a franchise there, got lucky when the NFL felt sorry for the fans and let a team get put back there in expansion, gave them a sweetheart deal as a franchise team, then watched them become the worst franchise in the NFL. They need a guy thats the head of operations and will fire/hire/draft whoever he wants and will tell the owner and lookerson who plays/stays, not the other way around. Its been a long time coming but the franchise needs one person in charge. It will be interesting who he picks to coach. Mangina isn't a great coach, he probably needs to go but good god if Holmgren hires Mornengwig its going to be mutiny if the team starts 1-4 next year. He needs a splash with a head coach, I'm not sure who he gets but it had better not be a loser retread or he's in trouble.
Well, imho Mangini is an okay Head Coach, the trading of Braylon Edwards reminded me alot of trading Chris Chambers in 07, the team was already having a down year taking a playmaking Wr off the table is guaranteed to make things worse. The thing of Mangini and Rob Ryan is, the team never quit on them, in fact they have played better as the season has rolled along, and a couple of pickups like Roth and a Te whose name slips me have played really well, so has James Harrison the Rb. If they do can him, Holmgren is a West Coast offense guru but several branches of the coaching tree have failed miserably like Jauron, Morningwhig, Marrucci (post 49ers), he doesn't have a whole bunch of prospects for Head Coach in the pipeline. And really the Brown's problem is with Player Personnel, Holmgren has to find his Jeff Ireland. Owner Randy Lerner apparently needs someone to play the villian and clean house, Parcells could do that in Miami, not sure how people will react in Cleveland.
I'll agree it's a risk. On the other hand, he still has a good NFL resume overall. IMO it's really (almost) an impossible task to wear several hats at once. The inherent dislike of Cam aside, his first mistake as a new HC was to decide to assume OC duties in addition to HC responsibilities. Trying to do too much is a recipe for failure in most cases. You can't totally commit your focus to HC if you're also the OC or GM, since all 3 are demanding full time jobs. IMO over the course of his career, Holmgren has done some really good things as a coach as well as made some really good personnel decisions. Yes, he's also made some mistakes. But so has Parcells. And I still love what he's doing for our team. Everyone makes mistakes. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out. The subplot for me is how quickly the trend is catching on for the so-called Football Guru position. Bad teams are hiring with expectations of a one year turn around similar to what we had.
Well here is the thing, Homgren is a CEO, he will play golf and offer advice and most importantly, choose who fills the GM post and really who should fill the Scouting Dept including who the director should be, and he may have to choose a Head Coach. I'll grant Homlgren should be able to find a good HC prospect, however unless he manages to hire Ron Wolf, he never quite worked with a great GM, and his experience at Scouting based on his draft results would seem dubious at best. One of the smart things Tuna did when he came here was rob the talent from the Cowboys Organization itself, from Scouts to the GM to the Oline Coach to the one time Offensive Coordinator Tony Sparano. Where is Holmgren going to find that many nutz and boltz people to man Cleveland's Organization in a single offseason? Ruskill missed Walter Jones likely missing the entire 09 season, so it's not like Holmgren's Seattle connections are likely to be that fruitful.
Holmgren is a terrible choice here; he is a good coach, but terrible at personnel. Unless he delegates that to a strong personnel GM, he's dooming the Browns to a few more years' mediocrity. And Mangini...man, he can't buy a break.
In Gruden's defense, it was the team he just left (Raiders) that he beat in the Super Bowl that year...
