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Mike Wallace On The Trade Block!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phoenician Fan, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mike Wallace not being traded this off-season is more of a matter of practicality than it is anything at this point. It's going to be very difficult for him to make it through next off-season with more palatable cap numbers. Especially with crap like this:

    Wow, Mike Wallace isn't putting in more than the bare-minimum work required of him? That's shocking. Really.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    But...but...but...D-Pate, he gets paid to get behind defenses not practice. Its all Tannehill's fault, he clearly is off on his unofficial practice invite timing.......
     
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  3. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Interesting piece by Salguero. Not great analysis but I do think he raises good points. Main thing Wallace needs (like a lot of WRs) is 'love' from the HC and OC - "We want to use you better; we didn't do a good job last year; but believe you can be one of the most explosive players in the NFL and will put you in a position to get big plays." They tell him that, show him that, and he'll respond better. It's pretty simple with guys like that.

    But, it will be interesting to see if they move him around the way Philly did with DeSean Jackson:

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2014/04/dolphins-need-to-let-mike-wallace-run-up-on-safeties.html
     
  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    TannaPuke....lol
     
  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Anything that the coaching staff does with Mike Wallace is going to be secondary to what he decides to do to improve himself, especially when what he needs to do to improve himself is as astute as an Armando Salguero suggestion of "maybe put him in the slot" or "throw deep".
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What I don't get is why some people refuse to put any blame or responsibility on Wallace's shoulders (or very, very, very little blame).

    He's not working like the other receivers. He's not working on his routes. He's not working with the QB. He's the ONLY receiver (other than Legeblow Nauhuh) to not mesh with Tannehill on the team. He doesn't fight for the ball.

    Nope, its Tannehill's fault. Its the coaches fault. Its Ireland's fault. Never Wallace.

    I know this has never happened before in the history of the league, but what if, Wallace was just waiting for the big day and then decided to half *** it? I know, I know, I'm inventing scenarios that have heretofore just simply never happened from an NFL player before, but....what if?
     
  7. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I just think it's classic example of people differing of opinion so they assume it's the other extreme.

    For example, I highly doubt you will find anyone that won't blame Wallace for a lot of what happen. But the proof is in the pudding as well. If Ryan would if hit just half the throws he missed deep your looking at a 1300 yard 8 TD WR.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Many people have for fact, given Wallace no to little blame. The proof is in the pudding and if Wallace fought for a ball that wasn't in the bread basket 40 yards down field he'd have 1300 yd and 8 TDs as well. If he had gotten the timing of routes down correctly, he'd have had even more. If Ryan had more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball, the sky is the limit. This is not an offense where you chuck it to the open man.
     
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  9. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    So your saying it's only Wallace's fault? There is no "timing" for a go route. I think that's a giant misconception.
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Please show me these plays where the ball was in his "breadbasket"
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think its a lot of his fault. A lot of the oline's fault. A lot of Sherman's fault. A little of Tannehill's fault.

    Yes, there absolutely is timing involved.
     
  12. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm as big of a Tannehill fan as there is, but he definitely deserves his share of the blame for the deep ball issue.
     
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  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Please show me where he fought for the ball. He slowed down here and there, but that's not fighting for the ball.
     
  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Explain timing? Wallace is suppose to say, ok. NOW is when I'm suppose to burn the CB and get open?

    It's a go route. The WR runs straight in an attempt to get open. Tannehill sees a safety or corner over the top he doesn't throw it. If he sees Wallace even or behind the corner he throws explain. What timing is there?
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You made the statement, so back it up with facts. But I'll save you the googling because you won't find many "bread basket" completions. Infact Wallace had to make a play on just about every ball they completed, that's because most of them were underthrown. Re watch the Carolina game.

    Wallace needs to show more effort EVERY play, the TB and Buff games he has to atleast turn into a DB and break up the play. But as far as getting open for big plays? One of the best in the business.
     
  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    It's lack of anticipation from a second year QB, Alen had a great breakdown of this that has disappeared from the site. We keep hearing the game needs to slow down for him. He's a developing QB and these things will improve. Then Wallace will have the numbers to satisfy the masses.
     
  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Ryan lacks anticipation on every level from the short pass to the deep ball. That is his biggest issue IMO.
     
  18. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I made a statement that he doesn't fight for the ball if its not a bread basket throw. I'm not sure why you're acting like I said there were bread basket throws.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    How can there be no timing involved BUT a lack of anticipation?
     
  21. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    No timing from Wallace. Anticipation talks about Tannehill and him anticipating the opening or him anticipating Wallace getting over top, rather then having to wait until he is open to throw the ball.

    You said if Wallace got his time right, he would have more. What does Wallace have to time or get his time right on go routes?
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This offense doesn't work by a bunch of individual receivers randomly getting open when they can. They have very specific places they need to be at very specific times, including Wallace. You cannot have Tannehill worrying about the timing of every other receiver AND then not knowing when and where Wallace is going to be on top of all that because Wallace has no assignment other than go deep. This entire offense is anticipation by the QB, but its anticipation of where the receiver will be in their assignment, not where they'll be in their individual battle with a defender.

    Wallace was in a very different offense in Pitt. It was an offense closer to what you're talking about, which is more sandlot than precision. Wallace and Marino would have been the greatest combo in history because they both play very instinctual football. Marino, however, couldn't play in a precision offense like this one though because this isn't instinctual, but cerebral...and Wallace is showing a disinclination to get better at this offense.
     
  23. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I stopped reading there, because I said every single time ive brought up the no timing thing...I am talking about go routes. Of course timing is important with every other route.
     
  24. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Anticipation begins before the WR has separated, we need this to improve to be a good offense. (Aswell as many other things)
     
  25. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    We've always known that Tannehill was a developmental project and would take a few seasons to develop his game and improve upon his weaknesses. It should be no surprise that he is deficient in some areas. That said, he IS improving and has shown growth. He may have progressed much better and faster if not for the other deficiencies around him as in 2012 with the poor receiving corps, and in 2013 with the horrible pass protection. He showed very good chemistry in 2013 with Hartline, Gibson, and Clay. He showed a good feel for Matthews, who is also developing. Where Tannehill struggled was with Wallace on deeper routes. Some of this was clearly on Tannehill, but not all of it. The lack of time in the pocket clearly affected the plays, the hits and sacks had a huge impact on Tannehill's timing, focus, and ability to step up in the pocket, and deliver the ball accurately down field.

    As for Wallace, we're just not seeing a guy dedicated to his craft. This isn't a new issue either. Steeler fans ragged him for this as well. Wallace needs to be consistent on his releases and run the plays at the same speed in this type of offense. He doesn't run routes consistently. He shows little cognizance of where defenders are on the field. No one is ragging on him just to be doing so. We want him to succeed. We also want him to show some veteran leadership and dedication and to work with Tannehill on their timing and chemistry outside of mandatory practices. Instead, Wallace is off doing his own thing while Tannehill is working on his own with other receivers.
     
  26. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I don't think anyone doesn't realize Wallace's deficiencies. They are the same here as in Pittsburgh. They have been exacerbated by RT's bad passes, however. Wallace can sulk and lose interest. That's who he is. Miami needs to recognize that and work with his personality. Wallace is not one to battle for the ball. He is who he is, no one is not recognizing that.

    But, the bottom line is, RT is not hitting Wallace when he's open. RT was 7 of 33 on deep throws and as the video on the site - under the heading of something along the lines of under and over thrown passes from Tannehill to Wallace - shows, Wallace could easily have had several more TDs had RT hit him.

    When I look at DeSean Jackson's TD catches last year - few if any are him out-fighting a player for the football. They are the QB (mostly Foles) hitting Jackson in stride as he breaks open. If RT had Foles accuracy or had he just hit Wallace even less than half the time on all those bombs he threw to him - as was noted earlier - Wallace would have had 1200+ yards and 8-10 TDs.

    Wallace is who we thought he was. A player who, with decent QB play, is going to get 75-80 catches, 1200-1300 yards, 8-10 TDs. And, really, that's good enough if you have 2-3 other decent WRs who can move the chains.

    I haven't seen any Wallace 'apologists' fail to recognize his weaknesses as a WR. But, what is being ignored is that RT is terrible on deep throws. Even a couple of the few he did complete, he did not hit Wallace in stride and what could have been a TD was not.

    As the link above and video shows, RT, time and time again, double pumps or waits until the WR is open before he throws it deep. That is just not going to work in this league. That is not playoff calibre, winning football. Period. It will get you on the bench after a few seasons of starting.

    Granted the OL play was pitiful. But, at the same time, the QB play on deep passes was bad and the utilization of Wallace was also bad. And, yes, Wallace is not a great WR. That is clear. But, he could still be a 10 TD, 1200 yard guy here if Tannehill even reaches mediocrity on his deep throws.

    There is the other element about WRs like Wallace. They tend to be moody and struggle if they aren't getting big plays and contributing. I'm not excusing that - it is what it is. So, you can either work with him or blow him off. If you blow him off and ignore his personality as an organization you have completely thrown $60 M down the tubes. If, however, you recognize him for what it is, and you structure plays for him, and you can get RT to get him the ball, the opposite happens with these guys. When they "feel the love" and the QB can get them the ball on some big plays and they are contributing to W's - then, they care a lot more and start fighting for the ball. It has happened time and again with these guys. Randy Moss was a classic example. There were times he'd not even try. But, other times he was unstoppable.

    No one really likes that. But, a coach can either work with it, and a QB can do his job, and get the most out of a limited player (which isn't really a bad set of #s) or they can not work with it and the QB not do his job even in a mediocre way - and the WR will never contribute much.
     
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  27. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    But that's always the rub with these sort of low percentage plays and particularly with Wallace. If only...

    Regardless of the QB, almost 42% of passes to Wallace on average are going to be misses.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12601/mike-wallace

    2009 - 39 catches on 72 targets for 756 yards. 6 TDs - Caught 54%
    2010 - 60 catches on 100 targets for 1257 yards. 10 TDs - Caught 60%
    2011 - 72 catches on 113 targets for 1193 yards. 8TDs - Caught 63%
    2012 - 64 catches on 119 targets for 836 yards. 8 TDs - Caught 53%
    2013 - 73 catches on 142 targets for 930 yards. 5 TDs - Caught 51%

    If history repeats itself, this season he and Tannehill should have 8-12 TDs and a career year in all categories. But he has to show up and engage.

    This is Philbin and Tannehill's final season to put it all together. Otherwise they're both done. Philbin gets axed and we start looking for yet another QB in earnest.
     
  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ahh to have Nick Foles.
     
  29. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Wallace signed with the Dolphins because he wanted to play in a warm climate for a lot of money. The Dolphins met both those requirements. The Dolphins are basically stuck with him this year because I don't see any other team trading for him, because that team would be stuck with his contract this year.

    I just don't see Wallace being a good fit for this offense and Tannehill has shown that he doesn't have a great arm when it comes to hitting Wallace when he does get open on a deep pattern. Personally I don't see Wallace being with the Dolphins beyond this coming season.

    Of course if the Dolphins don't have a winning season and end up going to the playoffs, I could also see a lot of changes in the coaching staff and at the QB position in 2015.
     
  30. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Give me Wallace with the mental toughness to battle for the ball instead of a guy not willing to get his uniform dirty and we would have another HOF'r.

    Speed is a gift, mental toughness is a learned and practiced behavior.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Foles isn't the most accurate but what he does have is a feel for the throw, the anticipation as to how and where the receiver will break his route.
     
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  32. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    We now have Foles QB coach as our OC in Lazor. Be interesting to see how both Foles and Tannehill fare this coming season. Hoping Lazor improves both Tannehill and the offense overall.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just cannot even understand the philosophy that mike Sherman had for Ryan Tannehill and how to win games using your qbs skillset.

    I don't know how one could do worse considering what the Qb is good at.
     
  34. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Sherman's whole plan for Tannehill seem centered on making him a pocket passer and ignoring Tannehill's athleticism and ability to make plays outside the pocket and on the run. Tannehill made some outstanding plays when allowed to do so.

    I understand trying to protect him and work on his pocket presence and ability within the pocket, but for he was getting killed and that was on Sherman. 58 sacks, 99 hits, 138 pressures. That's insane and Philbin and Turner weren't blameless in that either.
     
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  35. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I put it on Philbin. I think the philosophy was his, and even if it wasn't he's responsible for not stepping in to correct it.

    The only rationale I can think of is that they wanted RT to get as many pocket snaps as possible to speed up his development. In the long run it will probably help, but that's not much consolation to people who are primarily concerned with winning games.
     

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