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Mike Wallace seems eager...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Year 1 was forgettable. Year 2 was damn good considering Tanny's limitations with that type of wr
     
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  2. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    No doubt. The first year I was like "I still can't believe we spent that kind of money." Then year 2 he was like a whole different player - especially his aggressiveness. To this day I still believe with better ball placement he would've easily netted 15+ TD's.
     
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  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Yea, limitations of throwing deep to wide receivers named Mike Wallace. It was pretty good with Tanny having to force the ball down his throat.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    As would better route running and hands.
     
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  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    It's true. He just caught Tanny a Gase late...or? OMG


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Deep ball was fine to all players not named Wallace.

    Not all situations work out. Those two just did not connect when it came to deep.
     
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  7. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ryan struggled with anticipating and leading the ball out there, he was trying to throw his deep balls like he was trying to throw to a spot.
     
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  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I forgot, Ryan has always been the same guy, its everyone else around him that was holding him back. My mistake, I forgot the narrative round here.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Ryan has improved over the years. However, one thing that has been consistent his the fact that he has had a pretty good deep ball. For some reason, be it scheme or players, Wallace and Tanny did not have good ball chemistry.

    Gase only had one offseason with Tannehill. That isn't enough to give a quarterback to go from a bad deep ball to a really good deep ball. Do not be silly.
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Wallace struggled with running his routes. Sometimes he would slow up, sometimes he would just drop the ball and other times he would fail to adjust.

    It could have been a scheme issue as well. In the offense Miami currently has which is more run base with play action, maybe Wallace would have done better. Especially if Parker was on the other side.
     
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  11. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    CARROO !
    Sorry, had to do it! Happy to have my RU boy on the team.
    He needed more reps and Gase stated this was the case in him being a bit behind last month. I have a feeling he'll fit in for Parker nicely, he brings a much different skill set the WR corps.
     
  12. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    This is part of the Wallace hating narrative, Wallace never struggled with routes, this is part of that narrative, could they be crisper at times? yes, but that is worlds away from "struggling". He would have to slow up to catch the ball more than anything, drops? Narrative, he had 3 and 4 drops, 7 in 2 years, that is not a dropping problem. Sometimes he did fail to adjust, the real problem, he had to adjust WAY too often, and the great plays he made on those adjustments, are forgotten in the narrative.

    Wallace's highlights from his time here clearly debunk the narrative, it's one play after another of him making adjustments, and giving great effort, and making great plays.

    The Fins highlights start at 7:04, for any interested.

     
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  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Or perhaps Ryan has improved on his own or with Marino. He showed signs of this last season when his deep ball struggles were a national topic.

    Even if you thought he had a good deep ball previously, anyone who watches his throwing motion/trajectory/touch can see a different QB in that regard. Previously Ryan would try and throw frozen ropes as opposed to "laying it out there"...and when you do that you make it very hard on yourself.

    Gase has helped Ryan realize he can throw it before he see's it open, his anticipation on all routes has take a turn. He is starting to learn how to throw a WR open.
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This is a great post.

    Issue is common fans thought we were getting a Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type WR because of the contract he signed. What we got was an explosive playmaker who takes the top right off the defense. He actually improved his all around game in 2014 to help adjust to his situation.

    The drops narrative wreaks of message board headline gibberish.

    And yes, he wasn't great at adjusting but many of the plays he made you see him.....ADJUSTING. But not a coincidence that the same group who say Ryan struggled with the deep ball because of Wallace's "catch radius" is the same group that have failed to hold 17 accountable for his own mistakes for 5 years.

    Again, I watched him play a lot in Pitt...I knew what we were getting in him and he did exactly what I knew he would, put himself in position to make big game changing plays. He actually exceeded my expectations in 2014 by catching 10 TDs with almost none of them being on big plays. It's a shame Joe Philbin was Joe Philbin because Wallace and Tanny with Gase?? Dynamic.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Sure he could have improved his deep ball, however, his deepball was fine before Wallace got there. If you subtract all passes to Wallace, as it has been shown time and time again, Ryan was up there with all other players in the NFL. His deep ball was fine.

    He didn't just do frozen ropes to "laying it out there". That is a false narrative, Wallace just couldn't run under the times he "laid it out there" or he dropped it or he stopped running for some reason which would have won the Carolina game on an amazing play.

    The national topic that Gase has even said was dead wrong before he got here. Even going so far as questioning everyone's ability to judge a quarterback by that weird narrative.

    Ryan has improved as a quarterback. He has improved his deep ball. Still, Wallace's failures in Miami on the deep ball was just as much his own fault as it was Tannehill's. The two never got on the same page in that regard.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I can't believe we're still arguing about Wallace. it's ridiculous that some people still can't admit that the two of them weren't a good fit. Tannehill had a part, and Wallace had a part.
     
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  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Your drops theme has been debunked and yet you still are pushing it?

    Nobody was judging Ryan "by his deep ball" they were giving an opinion on his deep ball.

    So what is your explanation for why Wallace has made big plays in both Pitt and Bmore? Is Big Ben and Flacco THAT much better deep ball passers than Ryan? What is it? Whats the reason?
     
  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    They were NOT a good fit...who's arguing otherwise?

    At that point in his career Ryan needed a receiver who could go up and get balls over the defender as to when Wallace was in Pitt all he had to do was get open. It took Wallace a year to adjust to even having to comeback for balls let alone on such a regular basis.

    To summarize, in 2013 Wallace was not the right WR for Ryan Tannehill....and Ryan Tannehill was not the right QB for Mike Wallace. It's really that simple.
     
  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Two established deep threats sucked here. Kenny Stills numbers were off the charts with Drew Brees. But yes this is just about Wallace.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/depth-and-passer-adjusted-catch-rates/

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/qb-and-location-adjusted-catch-rates/
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If he had a pretty decent deep ball, there would be no reason to completely change his deep ball before the 2015 season, which he did. Everyone noticed it, and Tanny said he was gonna work hard on it. Throwing to Wallace on a go route is much harder than a Hartline or anyone else. It's just a faster moving target.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Point? Your article says that Brees wasn't really important to Stills catch rate in NO. Stills hasn't exactly had good hands here in Miami.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yep...and it's even harder when you don't know where the receiver is actually going to be, since he runs poor routes, and you have to drop into a tiny square because he doesn't like to catch with his hands.

    Again, BOTH players were at fault for why he didn't work here. Tannehill didn't throw an awful deep ball, but it wasn't good enough to work with Wallace.
     
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  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with this. But those who say it was all Wallace, or all Tanny, need to be corrected. They were not a fit. Remember Gase salivating at Stills before the season? Coaches love fast players like Wallace and Stills. It opens up the offense so much. But we've added a Landry, a Parker, a Carroo. Guys that fit his skill set better.
     
  24. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Unless you are in the post game film review, and/or have their play design, you don't know that you're just guessing. Big Ben sure didn't have an issue with where Wallace was on their routes.

    Before you say 2012, I'd submit Antonio Brown's dip in numbers, Big Ben's dip in numbers, and Big Ben's very public fight with Haley (they have since made up and had a good offense now, but that first year was a big learning curve for everyone).

    Despite having a QB who is playing like Doodoo, Wallace is having a nice year.

    The guys over at Football Outsiders charted each of his catches in 2013 and 2014, and in 2014 he vastly improved his catch radius and bailed Tanny out on a bunch of bad passes.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/catch-radius-nfc-north-stars

    Here are some bailouts by a wide receiver you have to drop the ball onto a stamp, and doesn't catch with his hands.

    [​IMG]

    That bottom left photo you see too often with Tanny.

    Oh, and he never lays out for the ball.

    2013 was indeed putrid. But 2014 was pretty darn good, and it wasn't due to spectacular ball placement by Tanny that's for sure. The two didn't fit.
     
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  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kind of obvious isn't it? It's contained in your question.

    If he was that good without great ball placement, why the terrible performance here?

    Maybe it's the humidity.
     
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  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Go head and end thread please.
     
  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You've been reading too many posts over at trephins.com...

    One of the dumbest generalizations I see around here.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I'm dumb, cause I thought the Tannehate would die down when the team was winning and the line was blocking better and his numbers improved.

    I guess considering recent current events I should have realized that hate is really, really strong.
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I remember Wallace making some crazy catches with his hands...but they certainly weren't the norm. Wallace preferred to catch with his body.

    Big Ben didn't have problems with the route running until they went timing based. For the record, Wallace struggled in Miami, and struggled in Minnesota (I remember a bunch of guys saying how good he'd do up there with Bridgewater). Yes, Flacco throws a great deep ball. Isn't he one of the best at that?

    Anyway, Wallace improved his second season here, to the point that I favored keeping him. But, he wasn't a good fit in the deep game, because he did run poor routes (allowed to be pushed to close to boundary, etc), he did not like to catch with his hands, and he presented a tiny target. Those really are just facts
     
  31. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Stating Tannehill was a PART of the problem 2-3 years ago of why Wallace didn't do as well here as we hoped is not Tannehate.

    Mike Wallace was a very solid receiver for us in 2014, the way week 17 ended was disappointing of course but who knows what really happened.
     
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  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That's not what's happening in here. They're saying he;s mostly responsible for Wallace.

    Its real simple, they've been wrong about Tannehill since day one.
     
  33. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    But lets keep on harping about a WR that gave up on the team in his last game with us. Smh.
     
  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A part of me has always liked Wallace, but he has a habit of taking plays off and he hates the physical style that Maxwell brings. He sort of reminds me of Ginn....the guy just doesn't like getting hit and it's easy to throw him off his game.
     
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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Man I ALMOST "liked" your post because that was a helluva ROI. But then you you tossed in the false claim that he "quit"....so close.
     
  36. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Seems like Tannehills deep ball to everyone on the planet not named Wallace has been pretty damn good. Surely it's just a coincidence though :tongue2:

    I spent countless hours here vehemently arguing for and defending Wallace, especially the offseason we picked him up. KB21 was fully convinced he was a sloppy route runner and fools gold and a waste of money. After I watched some of his Pitt tape I didn't think so and thought he was nuts for thinking that. The truth was somewhere in the middle, but I was ecstatic about the pick up at the time either way.

    My biggest gripe with Wallace will always be the 'quit' he had in him, and his reasoning for it is irrelevant to me. Even though he DID produce there were still a number of plays he just straight up gave up on. We had people on this board sitting at games with endzone seats pointing out Wallace giving up on plays in the endzone and costing us points, Then you couple it with the diva attitude, lack of connections deep, etc. Just not a good fit and never was, but we needed a #1 WR that year and he was one of the few big names on the market. Part of me really wants to harp on his drops as well, as i have been, but really that's not being fair to him because his drop #s weren't that bad statistically. I suppose to the eye test it seemed his drops were the most frustrating, and most were catchable. Even if they were underthrown, bad passes, etc you need to haul them in when they are in your hands and bail out your QB. He produced well and scored but definitely wasn't the alpha WR1 they were hoping for when they signed him, and the attitude was just the final straw. A lot of people here thought that would be the case, I personally thought he'd do more than he did and work out a bit better.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  37. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    He did..are really forgetting this whole situation?
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/12089019/mike-wallace-miami-dolphins-benched-second-half

    Like I said earlier in this thread...I'm not sure what hold does Mike Wallace have on supporters like you but it's good seeing you guys defending him again after he fell off in Minnesota with that great deep ball QB he had.
     
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  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    It's early in the AM, but do you not see the term COACHES DECSION in that article?

    It was an unfortunate situation indeed. But for the mainstream headline readers and believers the false narrative remains.
     
  39. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I must've counted 6-7 deep balls that hung up in the air requiring Wallace to slow down and come back.
     
  40. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yeah, a lot of adjusting, but I was honestly surprised at how many deep balls there were, I didn't remember that many.

    The dude made some sick plays when he was here, I liked the one he caught at the 10 and ran over 2 raiders to get in, well 1.5 anyway.

    A lot of plays where he manufactures the TDs, he wasn't perfect, but he was a big play WR for us.
     

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