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Mike Wallace thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BlameItOnTheHenne, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I do believe the board is in full FA frenzy mode right about now...LOL.
     
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Why would they be scared of fans attending a football game?

    Sure Floridians are scary but I'm sure they have security.
     
  3. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    I obviously meant stop showing up. You're arguing just to argue.
     
  4. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    As opposed to arguing over speculation that can't be proved?

    Their problem is winning games. Period. Not dealing w idiots among the fanbase and the dumb things they do.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  5. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    If they can create an aura of inevitability, it could set other suitors scrambling for their #2 targets.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There are a lot of differences. For one thing if you drafted a Mike Wallace you would've gotten that level of production and performance virtually for free. Let's say he's been worth $10 million a year the last 4 years. They probably paid him like $5 million. That's like adding $35 million to your salary cap over the last 4 years.

    For another, if you draft the guy and you find yourself wanting to keep him once he's up for contract renewal, there's a lot less translation issue. A lot less risk. You know what he can do in your system, and what he can't do. You know what his chemistry is like with the other players including and especially the quarterback. And he knows your system, what's expected of him, etc. You also know how he works, whether he's ever disruptive or not. You have the best view on his health of anyone in the league. All this stuff reduces risk.

    But if you're another team trying to sign the guy, you don't know this stuff. You're left guessing at his locker room character and work ethic, based on clues, hints, things gathered from people that often have a vested interest in lying, etc. You don't know how he translates to your system. You can only guess at that. You don't know what kind of chemistry he's going to have (or not have) with your quarterback. You don't even necessarily know if there are underlying medical issues that aren't easy to uncover in a physical. You don't know a lot, yet you're paying the same price. It changes the risk/reward ratio considerably.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Because it inherently means there is something preventing that player's original team from valuing him as much as a team that has less information. There is a reason why Pittsburgh didn't offer him a contract larger than what they offered Antonio Brown. That should be a major red-flag and cause apprehension.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    For what it's worth, the reports say they did actually offer more than they offered Brown. But he rejected what they offered and they reacted by folding up their tents and giving Brown his deal.

    But either way the point is correct...every free agent on the market has had at least one team with more information at their disposal than you look this player up and down, value him, and say no thanks.
     
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  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Yet people knock us for not signing Vincent Jackson? Weeeeeird.
     
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Usually when a team lets a player walk, you can figure out why. SD let Jackson walk for a few reasons. They don't like spending money; he was 30 yrs old; he had a history of DUIs.

    It is prudent though to ask why Pittsburgh is letting Wallace walk though. Those questions need to be answered, and it needs to be determined if those same questions apply to Miami.
     
  11. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Sure but just bc they chose not to make him one of the highest paid WRs out there doesn't necessarily make it a bad move for any other team to do so.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Maybe not. In order to reach a conclusion one way or another, I think you need to figure out why they chose not to. They have more information on Wallace than Miami does.
     
  13. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    They don't have the money and/or were unwilling to spend much if any more than what they gave Brown would be my guess.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The flip side to that argument with Vincent Jackson is that San Diego knew better than anyone exactly where he is on the NFL's steps program and what kind of player he is in the locker room, what kinds of issues they've had to sweep under the rug for him before the press or NFL could get hold of it, etc.

    I'm not convinced that foregoing Vincent Jackson was the same kind of mistake Jeff Ireland apparently thinks it was. Pierre Garcon is a different story though.
     
  15. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    So then..when do you sign a FA?
     
  16. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    You really think not paying Garcon what WAS did was a mistake? I like Garcon a lot but he def didn't deserve that kind of money imo and his injury concerns def look justified.
     
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    As I mentioned earlier, you need to ask why the FA is available. There are certainly circumstances where FAs provide value:

    - Their original team can't identify talent well
    - Original team has overload of talent at that position
    - Didn't fit scheme for original team
    - Team is rebuilding

    That isn't an exhaustive list. But if a player falls under one of those, I think its an opportunity to get value.

    The point isn't that FAs are a bad idea. But we know that 60% of FA signings fail. Due diligence is important, and you have to determine why the player is available.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Judging by that, the smart play is Jennings.
     
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  19. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I just hope that Mike Wallace has the new logo shaved into his hair at the press conference so that two threads can be killed at the same time.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That was my initial feeling. But I'm not sure if Miami signing an older receiver for $6M+ is a good idea considering how young the offense is.

    If Victor Cruz is tendered as a RFA, he absolutely becomes the best option for Miami IMO.
     
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  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    So Harvin is supposedly being moved to Seattle as we speak. Wallace was previously linked to the Vikings, do you think they go after him now that they have an even greater need?

    Wonder if the Vikings use picks they may get from Seattle to go after Cruz.
     
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  22. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    ^^^ Wow if Harvin goes to SEA. I want to see what they gave up but he's a great fit for that offense.
     
  23. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I get that. But if Wallace is just a cap casualty, then you may not get ideal value but a dynamic play maker at 26. You may lose opportunity elsewhere, sure, but good value only gets you so far
     
  24. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I agree in a general sense. But in this case it seems as though Wallace is the one who told the Steelers no thanks. 10 million a year is nothin to sneeze at, so they clearly viewed him as a valuable player. Wallace turned the deal down and chose to hit FA instead.

    IMO Jennings fits the situation you're describing better than Wallace does.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You sign them every year. But I'm not convinced the top of free agency has the best risk/reward in the free agent market. I'm more convinced you can get bang for your buck in the middle and bottom. For me, to go for a guy at the top you just have to be that sure he meshes well with everything you do. It does happen. And when it does, you don't get caught up trying to low ball, you pay market price. If it's a move worth making at $8 million a year it's probably still a move worth making at $9 or $10 million. If you're worried about that then that could be a sign it's not worth making the move after all.
     
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  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's the important thing to note, IMO.
     
  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Well, if anybody doesn't want this deal to happen all anyone has to do is pen a thread titled "Wallace to Miami a done deal" and it won't happen. Guaranteed.
     
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  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Whoever signs Wallace is going to over pay, it's a given. He's a dynamic player at a position of dire need. I don't mind it as long as it doesn't become a habit. With 5 picks in the first 3 rounds we have plenty of cheap labor on the way to help balance things out.
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Did they offer Wallace $10M? If so, that would take away some of the sting of signing him.
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Another thing I think its important to point is that Miami is voting on a stadium deal soon. If Mike Wallace being signed helps the organization get the deal, then there is a little more value to the signing.
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Dead straight on that! How many times have we seen that the past several years?
     
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  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Whomever gets Cruz is going to be a big winner. Extremely rare for a player that caliber to be available. He pretty much has no warts from a football perspective.
     
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  33. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    If they don't go after Cruz, I think the Vikings get Jennings and draft someone in the 1st.
     
  34. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hear all of the evidence that he's not a fit for this offense, etc. Mainly due to the reason that he isn't good at running the comeback route and other routes involved in this offense. But won't Wallace get a bigger cushion in coverage because the opposing cornerback has to respect his speed? Wouldn't this make up for his poor route-running? (which we don't know is definitive yet)

    I'm not making a statement, I'm legitimately asking.
     
  35. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I read he was offered 5 yrs 50 million. The devil is in the details, guaranteed money, signing bonus, etc. I just don't view him as a guy hitting FA because his team didn't make a reasonable offer to keep him.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yeah, it definitely will help make up for his deficiencies. I don't think there is an argument that Wallace isn't a very good WR. The argument is that his deficiencies make him worth less than $10M+. If Miami ends up signing him, I think history will prove it to be similar to the Joey Porter singing. He'll play well, but never up to his compensation level.
     
  37. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Or they're one of the teams that have Denario Alexander in their sites after Wallace and Jennings go.
     
  38. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want Wallace 1A & Jennings 1B. I find that Jennings, if healthy, could be like a Reggie Wayne signing.

    If he costs Vincent Jackson money, then fine. It isn't ideal, but that's just the going rate in FA for WR's. We missed out on V-Jax. Let's not miss out on Wallace.
     
  39. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I agree. If Hartline fit what you do, would you sign him for $7-7.5 per?
     
  40. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Yea, they offered him the deal Brown accepted according to what was reported.
     

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