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Mocking Combine Warriors in the 1st Round

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Not surprising, he isn't a very disciplined player. He needs coaching. See thats ok because all players are not nfl ready to be a starter on day 1. I wouldnt draft him in the first round but the kid does show some explosiveness and shows instincts and willingness to make a play that alot of guys dont.

    check out this video and tell me he is slow:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7achvXsy3Q


    SO I dont doubt he came into the combine out of shape and unprepared like a dope. But I will say you watch him and he doesnt play as slow as that 40. Some coach will take a shot at him and if he dedicates himself he could make some plays in the nfl.

    EDIT: i didn't make the video so sorry for the terrible music
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I share that sentiment with you about Wylie, injuries and all, got to see some of his games the past couple years over here, the way that kid plays the game, you want him on your team, you need him on your team, and if your the Miami Dolphins, and hes healthy, which he is, you draft him because he upgrades two very important positions on your team that is begging for explosiveness, slot and Punt return..The kid accelerates out of his one cut style that literally leaves jokers grasping for air, once he plants, he's gone, your so right on his ability to play the outside as well, I don't care who you are, college player or pro player, you come up to the line of scrimmage to bump him because your a cocky NFL corner and you misjudge this cat, and your gonna get embarrassed as a NFL corner..I hope his injuries are behind him as well because he really could help our team immediately.

    ''scary'' is the right word..
     
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  3. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Wylie looks so much like Welker with a faster top end speed. If he is used right he could be a productive and useful player. We'll see if a team uses him in that Welker role.
     
  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Man I hate when people make player comparisons. :shifty:
     
  5. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    zomg dat wuz uh gud won yo!
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I was thinking more of a poor man's Percy Harvin
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Dont you have a curfew?.... or a cartoon to wake up for?
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Are you trying to say Wylie looks like Mike Smith? b/c that's who he more resembles than Welker IMO.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There's a toughness and durability factor with Wes Welker that may not be there with Devon Wylie. Not that I think Wylie isn't tough but it's a simple fact he got injured a lot. One of the things that makes Welker so good is his durability and toughness though because he catches so many short passes, it's almost like he's a tailback.

    -I've seen short guys that have Gumby ankles, but can't flat out run. James Rodgers a recent good example.
    -I've seen guys that can consistently catch the ball, but can't track it in the air well enough to adjust to it.
    -I've seen guys that are fast, but can't run well with the ball in their hand.

    Wiggles does all of these things. He's got the cutting ability and burst, PLUS the ability to gear up into 5th gear. He's got the ability to consistently catch the ball, PLUS he tracks it in the air quickly and accurately. He's got the speed, PLUS he's good with the ball in his hands as evidenced by his 15.4 yards per punt return and two PR touchdowns this year. He was a tailback in High School, with 15 rushing TDs and 4 more receiving in his senior season, averaging 7.9 yards per carry.

    He has a 20.8 KR average, a 13.5 PR average w/ 2 TDs, 96 catches for 1292 yards and 7 TDs, and 17 runs for 114 yards.

    Really the negatives are that he's not big, and he couldn't stay healthy.

    He's 5091 and 187 lbs. If you look at him at the Combine, he's actually built very well, very muscular. Wes Welker was 5086 and 195 lbs coming out. Steve Smith of Carolina was 5090 and 184 lbs. Dupree mentioned Percy Harvin, who was 5111 and 192 lbs. Antonio Brown who is lighting it up for the Steelers was 5101 and 186 lbs. Deion Branch was 5091 and 191 lbs. Doug Baldwin who lit it up for the Seahawks this year was 5096 and 189 lbs. Greg Jennings was 5111 and 197 lbs. Santana Moss was 5095 and 181 lbs. Emmanuel Sanders was 5107 and 186 lbs. Johnny Knox was 5114 and 185 lbs. DeSean Jackson was 5096 and 169 lbs. Harry Douglas was 5112 and 176 lbs. Santonio Holmes was 5105 and 188 lbs. We know how small Davone Bess is.

    As for the health...I guess you never can tell, really. In 2008, had catches of 15, 31, and 47 yards, and a 25 yard run against Rutgers and Wisconsin, before he got hurt and sat out four games. When he came back he wasn't quite as dangerous. Again in 2009 he was leading the team with 4 TDs for the first six games, then got hurt and didn't log another statistic until the New Mexico Bowl. He had 2 catches for 39 yards and a TD in the first game of the 2010 season against Cincinnati before getting hurt in the game and missing the entire season.

    I know the production isn't there. But the movement skills and ball skills seem to be there. The athleticism is there. He's big enough and has a good enough build. Tough call, I guess.

    Some highlights:
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7197940
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7198393
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7136419
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7073778
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwTGraHZIiQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHxGyJPzz8Y
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbnMX0Vg8Wg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1fcWHEwlo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v2lReM9Mnk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoOeWtr8zW0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFmTOyBxUek
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twd9tEdzZ7Y

    Full Season Stuff
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327-Oq4cI4U
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faqfXBtF50I
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Look at 2:06 into the Ole Miss highlight. Watch the route he runs. He puts a fake on his corner so hard that the corner got all crossed up and just fell to the ground. REALLY poorly thrown ball, and he still adjusts to it in the air and falls on it.

    This is what I'm talking about. This play goes in the books for what, 9 yards? Yet look at the skills he put on display there. Those skills could make plays that go for 49 yards, in the right circumstances.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's a human highlight reel. It's almost like I want to highlight and talk about each and every play. I mean just one play on at 2:22 in the Ole Miss tape, look how he pops up like he's going to sit in a zone even though he's being covered man to man, selling it like he's staying in there, and then like lightning he's releasing further into the middle, briefly turns his head to make sure he doesn't hit the ref who stupidly puts himself right in Wiggles' path, catches the ball, absorbs a hit and picks up 5 more yards of RAC to set up a 1st & Goal at the 1. Look at the replay, that's just pure separation in man coverage. This goes down as like a simple 13 yard play...but it's VIRTUALLY a touchdown. His skill set got them from 3rd & 10 on the 14 yard line to 1st & 1 on the 1 yard line, which increased their TD odds from something that probably approaches 10 percent, to something that approaches 90 percent. Nice finish with the backward somersault.

    Like I said though, the whole tape, pretty much every tape, is a human highlight reel. There's some kind of high level skill on display in pretty much every play. The punt return to start the thing out, superb. Look at that cut he made right after catching the ball. Then he runs a smash route or stick route or whatever you want to call it, look how quickly he can pop out of a dead run and look back at the QB. The RAC that happens after that play is a direct result of that agility, otherwise he'd have been tackled as the ball came in. Of course, it turns into an even bigger play because he can spin and juke and do all these crazy things with the ball in his hands.

    It's the little things. About 23 seconds into the SDSU game tape, he runs a little jerk route or whatever you want to call it, but it's something he'll run from the slot a lot at the next level. The route itself wasn't special. But what is special is how he treated the ball in the air and his transition to running after the catch. This is a poorly thrown ball. It's behind him. It's supposed to be on the outside shoulder. He quickly and seamlessly spins to the inside to secure the catch and pop right around to keep running the direction he's supposed to run in after the catch on this play, almost like it was a perfectly thrown ball on the outside shoulder. He lost practically nothing on the run after the catch as far as his speed and viability goes, even though he had to execute a complete spin to the inside. Was the corner playing disciplined and ready to tackle him right away? Sure. But what if he wasn't? Again, we're talking about a 7 or 8 yard play. But the skills on display during the play are capable of much bigger plays.

    And look how poorly thrown the next ball is on the SDSU tape, on the slant from the slot. Yet, he reaches back and to the ground, and hauls it in. It's 3rd & 4. As far as the QB skills on display go, this is a punt. You're punting because your QB sucks. But wait, you're not, because your WR bailed him out.

    And then the next play, same thing. Are you kidding me? Have you ever even heard of the concept of ball placement? Wylie practically has to do a Van Damme split on a tiny little 3 yard slant route, just to get low enough to dig this ball out of the turf and catch it. Again, this goes down as what, a 5 yard play? Yet the SKILLS put on display in that catch are viable at 25 yards.

    AS IS ILLUSTRATED, on the very next play...when the quarterback finally decides to throw a ball with some semblance of accuracy. Another simple jerk route but look how much separation he created with his agility and quickness against #5. Because the ball is on the front shoulder, Wylie is able to use his full arsenal of acceleration and run after catch abilities to turn a 5 yard route into a 30+ yard play.

    And don't even get me started on the Louisiana Tech tape.

    I'm just saying...this guy is a PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER. I don't know if he's Steve Smith (CAR), Wes Welker or just a Dane Sanzenbacher. I have my suspicions that he's more Smith/Welker than Sanzenbacher. But either way, he's going to be IN the league catching passes for a long time unless he breaks in half from injuries.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One thing I like about him too is that he could be a punt returner.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I mean seriously, look at the BIG play against Louisiana Tech, you know the one I'm talking about...scramble drill, QB drops it over Wiggles' shoulder for a big catch. Look at the ball skills it took on that play. The field level cam shows that after the QB released the ball, Wiggles was actually so confident he could track the thing that he briefly turned his head back toward the ground level to make sure he had a clear lane to run through, before looking back up and re-acquiring the ball. Then what does he do? That subtle move where you go from running with your shoulders turned back to the QB and looking for the ball at that angle, to smoothly re-squaring your shoulders, angling your head upward and allowing the ball to drop into your outstretched hands...you'd be real surprised how many receivers, even pro ones, struggle doing that. I saw him do the same thing in Shrine practice too.

    And then the touchdown, poorly thrown ball, pulls it down on the run, makes a guy miss off his leg, runs in for the score. The skills he displayed on those little 7 yard catches are the same skills on a big play like this, showing you how the success level is just a matter of circumstances, because the skill level is there.

    Look at the punt returns against Nebraska. This isn't some cush team he's playing. This is Nebraska. Look at the skills on display on the first punt return, even though it doesn't go for a whole lot. Then the next one, holy cow. You see that little O.J. Simpson gallop-cut right on the Nebraska mid-field "N", at top speed? I thought you did. He did it to break the ankles of a guy that comes into frame a few milliseconds later. For good measure he breaks an arm tackle that honestly should have gotten him down, and then breaks the punters ankles en route to pay dirt. On the other punt returns too, just look at the skill level...pretty incredible punt returner if you ask me.

    Right away on the first catch we've got a nice HIGH angle to see the speed in action. He looks like the only guy running on a field full of walkers. At 1:59, you catch a guy grabbing his jersey and essentially engaging in illegal holding, but the physicality doesn't bother Wiggles too much. Ball doesn't go to him, but it very well could have, he was open.

    And the next play, EXACTLY what DJ said, comes to full fruition. Wiggles is off the line. That bigger defensive back THINKS he's going to jam him, but Wiggles jab steps him and the DB gets no chance. The first time he manages to get even a fist full of shoelace is 14 yards up the field after Wylie has already caught the ball.

    The next catch I like the tenacity Wiggles showed there. Yeah, he created tons of separation because he's quick as a water bug. But after the catch the guy is bearing down on him thinking he can save the 1st down because (again) the ball was thrown poorly and Wiggles had to turn all the way back for it. But Wiggles didn't want to leave any room for doubt on this one. He took the contact and launched to make sure he got 2 yards of margin to make sure he converted.

    The next throw he doesn't come up with. Well, that'll happen. You're not going to come up with every ball especially when your QB keeps throwing with such poor ball placement. Note how Wiggles had to turn all the way back around to even try to catch the thing. I get that there was a defender in front of Wiggles on the slant but you throw it low and in front not low and behind.

    The very last throw I know you'd like to ding him for not getting the foot down but this is just unfortunate. He's only 5'9" and his QB threw the ball pretty far out there. It's a far throw so I don't want to ding the QB as badly as I do for the poorly placed balls on slants and jerk routes and whatnot, but there are just some physics to work with here and Wiggles had to go a little too far up to get that ball to where he couldn't get the foot down. Just unfortunate. Got open against Alfonzo Dennard, though.
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Absolutely, and if you look at the East-West Shrine youtube footage, you see exactly that. When you show up to these All Star games, be what you are. He's a punt returner. So, he returns a punt for big yardage. I don't care if it was called back on a dumb penalty.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What round do you consider taking him?
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    With his injury history, you probably can't afford to take him in the 2nd round at #42 as there will probably be a safer player at a position of greater need available. But starting in the 3rd round, you'd take him and feel really good about it.

    Bottom line is, you're going to feel really good about getting him no matter where you get him, I think. Be it #8, #42, #73, whatever...he's going to catch passes and make plays on Sunday. It's never going to hurt you to have the guy on the roster because even at #8 overall he's making only $3 million a year. But I think when it comes to the injury history and his size, you do have to keep in mind other available options, and your needs. This team needs a Defensive End and I think Malik Jackson could be pretty special, and so if he's there in the 2nd round at #42, then you take him over Wiggles in all likelihood.
     
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  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't explain Wylie any better than what Ck is laying down here, but when I watch his games, there is legitimate fear in defenders eyes, his abilities take away your agressive nature, it's almost like they don't want to get embarrassed by this little white dude, so their cautious as they approach..I've seen examples of 4, 5, 6, guys hovering around him and not know how to attack him, you lose...I also like how he secures the football, and how on passes that are below the chest line he uses his body the correct way to catch, welker style..

    Lol..there are some national writers that don't even have this guy on the map....3rd round, for what we need at both positions, instant explosive upgrades.
     
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  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Wylie is closest to Mike Thomas (Jags) IMO. (PAC 10 1st team WR & PR in same year, and left Zona as PAC 10's all time reception leader.)

    5'8 195
    4.3 forty
    1.44 ten yard.
    40" vertical
    10'06" broad.
    6.67 3 cone.

    Both are extremely sudden, quick, coordinated, balanced, with ability to run solid routes and really stick it to DBs over the first 10 yards but with the speed to get up top.... and always a threat to break a play.

    Wylie
    5'9 186
    4.37 forty
    39" vertical
    10'03" broad.
    (no cone posted but probably in that sub 6.8 range)
     
  19. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Josh Robinson, UCF, fastest 40-time!! Represent!
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This is a deep WR class, and currently NFL Draft Scout ranks Wylie as the 30th WR and a 6-7 rounder. It will be interesting to see how much he moves up before the draft. NFLDS usually has their rankings as accurate as anyone when it comes to comparing what actually happens.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You know, this sounds like BS...but I don't think it's BS. I legitimately got the same feel watching the tape.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Good to note that Chad Reuter isn't there any more. Brugler is a little on the unproven side. Not to pick on him, but Reuter moved on to bigger and better things, is now doing all the draft legwork for Mike Mayock and the boys at the NFL Network.
     
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  23. finsbuck719

    finsbuck719 New Member

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    I've been high on Wylie for a couple months now.

    Also, Nick Perry has really been growing on me the past few weeks. I wouldn't mind trading down deep into the first and picking up him up in the 20s.
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I did a lot on Mike Thomas. I could buy some similarities, especially when you put up the Combine numbers...but when I watch Wiggles, I don't think of Mike Thomas. I think Wiggles tracks the ball a lot better in the air than Thomas did and has better hands.
     
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  25. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    All right its over ... post your biggest winners and losers of the combine!
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Bunting has him at 13. Some of Wes's stuff I don't always agree with, but overall I like his board the best of the free stuff. I've taken NFLDS with a grain of salt this year.... and I never pay attention to Drafttek. Personally I think Wylie's a 4th rounder but could prove in the NFL to be more valuable than that.
     
  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Agree I would love to have him, but I'm starting to think he will be gone in the mid to late teens.
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I don't know if Perry would fit here with us switching to a 4-3 since we already have 1 smallish DE and I'm not sold on him as a SOLB yet.

    I like Branch better for that. :tongue2:
     
  29. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Gotta throw my boy Josh Robinson in the winners circle...

    40 yard dash - 4.33 - #1 of overall at combine
    Vertical Jump - 38.5" - #2 of DBs...#11 overall at combine
    Broad Jump - 11'1" - Tied for #1 overall at combine

    And the kid has game to go with it! :cool:
     
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  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    YMMV, but I generally find Wes more off the wall than some of the other well known free sites. Scott Wright has been around the longest of the online draft sites, and I lend credence to what he says. Draft Nasty is Corey and Barney Chavous, and I should follow them a little more, since whenever I've heard Corey discuss the draft it's pretty clear he knows whereof he speaks. They are not totally free though, but I think their basic rankings are. Frank Coyle of draftinsiders.com is my favorite of all, but again his stuff is not all free. I've know him since the early 90s and his track record on predicting the success of rookies is impressive, based on what he told me in private talks, as well as what I've seen in his final overall rankings every year.
    In recent years I've considered NFLDS the ultimate authority of the totally free sites. Why are you less certain on them this year?

    Re: Wylie, Since yesterday, NFLDS has moved him from 30th to 25th, now a 5-6 rounder and has one of their red "up" arrows next to his name.
     
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  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My guess is Perry goes no later than 15th or so. If we want him, better grab him at 8. IMO, he'd be an ideal fit as a 4-3 bookend to Wake at DE. Vinny Curry would be too though, and for some reason, he gets no consideration as a 1st rounder. I wonder if the school and conference has anything to do with that.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Dave Te' Thomas is still part of NFLDS isn't he?
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't think he's been there for years.
     
  34. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Holy crap, an 11'1 broad jump!
     
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  35. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Needless to say... he's explosive lol ;)
     
  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Not according to Mike Mayock.
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sorry, I meant to say Rob Rang.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Seems like he likes his games.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/28/josh-robinson-hand-timed-at-4-29-seconds-in-the-40/
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He works loosely with it, sort of hovering over it in some cryptic way, but Chad Reuter RAN it before and now Damon Brugler runs it.
     
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  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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