MOVIE TALK The War of 'Star Wars' Fans and George Lucas

maynard · Mar 13, 2010

pretty funny to me. i have to admit being caught up in it too a bit. its like we love lucas for his ideas and vision, but we ultimately dont trust him to make the decisions

when i saw avatar and camerons approach to it reminded me of how poorly lucas dealt with a movie of mostly fake material. there was never a sense for for more than a couple of moments in the prequels that you could really lose yourself in the movie and that you werent just watching actors

the OT of course is different, but the valid point remains that the best of the 6 movies was done by kershner despite lucas

imo, lucas should lease the rights to the franchise and let some other directors take a stab at it. imo, the star wars universe is capable of sustaining any amount of movies given proper direction. "the force," jedis and lightsabers should be enough to interest any audience in any time

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-people-vs-george-lucas.html

"Star Wars" fans are striking back. A new documentary premiering Saturday at the annual South by Southwest festival in Austin, Texas explores the rocky relationship between fans of the six-part "Star Wars" film series and the man who created it, George Lucas. The film, "The People vs. George Lucas," is generating substantial buzz -- especially from fans who know the difference between a mynock and a taun-taun.

Fans have long complained that Lucas is out of touch as a director. The gritty young director responsible for "THX 1138" and "American Graffiti" is long gone. After "Star Wars," Lucas took a 22-year hiatus from directing. As James Cameron proved with "Avatar," a long hiatus doesn't automatically mean disaster. Lucas' return film, "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace", grossed over $900 million worldwide, but, as fans and "The People vs. George Lucas" director Philippe argue, it never recaptured the magic of the original trilogy.
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maynard · Mar 14, 2010

here is a kershner interview. talk about lucas and stuff. i just love hearing this guy talk

the best line of all of star wars when han replies to leia's "i love you" with "i know" was all kershner hating the original line because it was out of character for han to say "me too."

part 1

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-g0nlreeUo"]YouTube- Irvin Kershner Interview Part 1[/ame]

part 2:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0J_LQQt2ck&feature=related"]YouTube- Irvin Kershner Interview Part 2[/ame]

NaboCane · Mar 14, 2010

No doubt that Lucas screwed the (very expensive and beloved) pooch in those last three films.

Even in Return, you could see his inclination to go for the "cute" with the goddam Ewoks.

Jar-Jar Binks was an abomination foisted on us; the Force being reduced from mysticism to some focacta bacteria in some peoples' blood was another squandering of a legend that carried across decades.

Now we're stuck with the garbage of the last three pics within the structure of the whole.

It's as if Warner Brothers had decided to do a sequel to Casablanca, but instead of letting Michael Curtiz direct the original cast, they made it an Abbott and Costello caper.

DevilFin13 · Mar 15, 2010

Lucas indeed has, or at least had, great vision. He is great with the big ideas. But he seems to struggle with the small stuff like dialogue.

And there seems to be something to the fact that his best work was done at a young age when he was struggling just to get the movie made. You see this with music a lot. There is something about the odds being stacked against you and having limited funds that forces you to be creative and take risks. Once you are sitting around with millions in the bank account and the guarantee that the movie will be made and it will be profitable I'm sure it changes your outlook and how you think.

Section126 · Mar 16, 2010

NaboCane said:

No doubt that Lucas screwed the (very expensive and beloved) pooch in those last three films.

Even in Return, you could see his inclination to go for the "cute" with the goddam Ewoks.

Jar-Jar Binks was an abomination foisted on us; the Force being reduced from mysticism to some focacta bacteria in some peoples' blood was another squandering of a legend that carried across decades.

Now we're stuck with the garbage of the last three pics within the structure of the whole.

It's as if Warner Brothers had decided to do a sequel to Casablanca, but instead of letting Michael Curtiz direct the original cast, they made it an Abbott and Costello caper.
Click to expand...

disagree...revenge of the sith is a helluva Star Wars flick.

but I get what you mean.

maynard · Mar 17, 2010

Section126 said:

disagree...revenge of the sith is a helluva Star Wars flick.

but I get what you mean.
Click to expand...

it was really the only one that had a plot worth watching, plus you gotta love the W bush references

episode 1 was nonsensical galactic politics and episode 2 was some sort of odd detective movie

heck, the first clone wars cartoon series (2 parts? )that came out a few years ago had better character exposition than the 3 prequel movies

finfansince72 · Mar 17, 2010

The 3rd movie in the prequel series was really good IMO but theres no justification for JarJar and some of the lousy writing/direction of the 1st two. I would love to see the star wars series turned over to some really good writers/directors, but Lucas won't do it, and he'll probably outlive us all to spite us. If you read some of the books others have written, comics and novels theres a ton of great stories and people that love the characters that could put together a great script but Lucas isn't going to do it.

On a lot of levels I respect him, honestly he could make billions of dollars if he just stepped back and turned the characters over to other directors/writers, etc but he believes in his stories and direction.

unifiedtheory · Mar 21, 2010

finfansince72 said:

The 3rd movie in the prequel series was really good IMO but theres no justification for JarJar and some of the lousy writing/direction of the 1st two. I would love to see the star wars series turned over to some really good writers/directors, but Lucas won't do it, and he'll probably outlive us all to spite us. If you read some of the books others have written, comics and novels theres a ton of great stories and people that love the characters that could put together a great script but Lucas isn't going to do it.

On a lot of levels I respect him, honestly he could make billions of dollars if he just stepped back and turned the characters over to other directors/writers, etc but he believes in his stories and direction.
Click to expand...

Lucas should allow someone to re-envision the series. That way someone could blow up the first 3 films and retell it. IMO the prequels were an unmitigated disaster.

How can someone take a base of mythology like that and screw the pooch so badly. Phantom Menace was TOTAL rubbish. He should have picked up the story when Anakin was in his late teens, perhaps when he was almost completed his training. The first film should have been used as a lead in to the Clone Wars and establishing a base of what the Jedi were before Vader eradicated them.

The 2nd film could be all Clone Wars. Not the crappy story Lucas attempted to tell. The love story was a total joke. He was trying to make "Titanic in space". Have a love story, that is fine but tell a realistic love story and have someone write dialogue. IMO Anakin should have been turning at the end of the 2nd film. Having it end dark.

Oh, we all love Boba Fett but the reason we did was because he made limited appearances. He was mysterious and bad ***. That does not mean you have to introduce him as a child AND force some weakass story down our throats involving his father.

3rd film was alright but Vader and Palpatine destroying the Jedi should have gotten more than 10 minutes in the film. In my opinion it should have been the central feature of the film.

Then, leave episodes 4, 5 and 6 as is (Jedi was too cute for me but the great parts of the movie over ride the Ewoks).

Then, I'd take a serious look at the Timothy Zahn "Thrawn trilogy" series of books. It was the trilogy of books that reawakened my love of Star Wars. In all honesty, I'd like someone to get a hold of it and releases a high end animated trilogy of films based on the books, that way we could have Solo and Luke and Leia but not have to deal with different actors playing the parts.

finfansince72 · Mar 21, 2010

unifiedtheory said:

Lucas should allow someone to re-envision the series. That way someone could blow up the first 3 films and retell it. IMO the prequels were an unmitigated disaster.

How can someone take a base of mythology like that and screw the pooch so badly. Phantom Menace was TOTAL rubbish. He should have picked up the story when Anakin was in his late teens, perhaps when he was almost completed his training. The first film should have been used as a lead in to the Clone Wars and establishing a base of what the Jedi were before Vader eradicated them.

The 2nd film could be all Clone Wars. Not the crappy story Lucas attempted to tell. The love story was a total joke. He was trying to make "Titanic in space". Have a love story, that is fine but tell a realistic love story and have someone write dialogue. IMO Anakin should have been turning at the end of the 2nd film. Having it end dark.

Oh, we all love Boba Fett but the reason we did was because he made limited appearances. He was mysterious and bad ***. That does not mean you have to introduce him as a child AND force some weakass story down our throats involving his father.

3rd film was alright but Vader and Palpatine destroying the Jedi should have gotten more than 10 minutes in the film. In my opinion it should have been the central feature of the film.

Then, leave episodes 4, 5 and 6 as is (Jedi was too cute for me but the great parts of the movie over ride the Ewoks).

Then, I'd take a serious look at the Timothy Zahn "Thrawn trilogy" series of books. It was the trilogy of books that reawakened my love of Star Wars. In all honesty, I'd like someone to get a hold of it and releases a high end animated trilogy of films based on the books, that way we could have Solo and Luke and Leia but not have to deal with different actors playing the parts.
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Those were great books, they brought me back to the fold for Star Wars as well.
I agree about the killing of the Jedi being 10 minutes long, that was weak. The pacing of the prequels was poorly done to say the least. There wasn't any reason to focus on Anakin the 6 year old. The love story was kind of silly as well, no doubt about that.
There are so many great stories out there that people have done, I'm not sure why Lucas wouldn't make some animated movies, companies like DC and Marvel are doing quite well putting out one shot dvd/blu rays of their popular characters, even without release in the theatres.

NaboCane · Mar 21, 2010

unifiedtheory said:

Lucas should allow someone to re-envision the series. That way someone could blow up the first 3 films and retell it. IMO the prequels were an unmitigated disaster.

How can someone take a base of mythology like that and screw the pooch so badly. Phantom Menace was TOTAL rubbish. He should have picked up the story when Anakin was in his late teens, perhaps when he was almost completed his training. The first film should have been used as a lead in to the Clone Wars and establishing a base of what the Jedi were before Vader eradicated them.

The 2nd film could be all Clone Wars. Not the crappy story Lucas attempted to tell. The love story was a total joke. He was trying to make "Titanic in space". Have a love story, that is fine but tell a realistic love story and have someone write dialogue. IMO Anakin should have been turning at the end of the 2nd film. Having it end dark.

Oh, we all love Boba Fett but the reason we did was because he made limited appearances. He was mysterious and bad ***. That does not mean you have to introduce him as a child AND force some weakass story down our throats involving his father.

3rd film was alright but Vader and Palpatine destroying the Jedi should have gotten more than 10 minutes in the film. In my opinion it should have been the central feature of the film.

Then, leave episodes 4, 5 and 6 as is (Jedi was too cute for me but the great parts of the movie over ride the Ewoks).

Then, I'd take a serious look at the Timothy Zahn "Thrawn trilogy" series of books. It was the trilogy of books that reawakened my love of Star Wars. In all honesty, I'd like someone to get a hold of it and releases a high end animated trilogy of films based on the books, that way we could have Solo and Luke and Leia but not have to deal with different actors playing the parts.
Click to expand...

Damn, boy. :up:

You're right there in Burnaby where all the sci-fi shows are filmed; you should be working in that realm.

I'll have to check those books out...what about the Hand of Thrawn series?

unifiedtheory · Mar 24, 2010

NaboCane said:

Damn, boy. :up:

You're right there in Burnaby where all the sci-fi shows are filmed; you should be working in that realm.

I'll have to check those books out...what about the Hand of Thrawn series?
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The Hand of Thrawn series was good but the initial Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command) are simply brilliant in my opinion, simply must reads for anyone that is a fan. They actually explore characters. Introducing characters (Mara Jade, Pellaeon, the Noghri, Talon Karrde) that are more memorable then every character that was in the prequels.

My Mother reads the Lord of the Rings trilogy every year (she must read 100 books a year), that trilogy by Zahn is my Lord of the Rings. It's that good IMO.

NaboCane · Mar 24, 2010

unifiedtheory said:

The Hand of Thrawn series was good but the initial Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command) are simply brilliant in my opinion, simply must reads for anyone that is a fan. They actually explore characters. Introducing characters (Mara Jade, Pellaeon, the Noghri, Talon Karrde) that are more memorable then every character that was in the prequels.

My Mother reads the Lord of the Rings trilogy every year (she must read 100 books a year), that trilogy by Zahn is my Lord of the Rings. It's that good IMO.
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They're in my Audible queue. And I'll scout around the many used bookstores in my neighborhood for the hard copies.

Now...ever meet Amanda Tapping? :drool: :hump:

texanphinatic · Mar 24, 2010

Tim Zahn's Star Wars books are awesome. I read pretty much all Star Wars stuff, but his is the best of it all. Would love to see those books get made into an animated movie. :)

finfansince72 · Mar 24, 2010

texanphinatic said:

Tim Zahn's Star Wars books are awesome. I read pretty much all Star Wars stuff, but his is the best of it all. Would love to see those books get made into an animated movie. :)
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I agree those books he wrote are amazing. Thrawn is the best villain outside of Vader in the Star Wars universe.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Mar 24, 2010

unifiedtheory said:

The Hand of Thrawn series was good but the initial Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command) are simply brilliant in my opinion, simply must reads for anyone that is a fan. They actually explore characters. Introducing characters (Mara Jade, Pellaeon, the Noghri, Talon Karrde) that are more memorable then every character that was in the prequels.

My Mother reads the Lord of the Rings trilogy every year (she must read 100 books a year), that trilogy by Zahn is my Lord of the Rings. It's that good IMO.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed the books, I was just annoyed because it felt to me that the Empire lost because of luck

Dol-Fan Dupree · Mar 24, 2010

finfansince72 said:

The 3rd movie in the prequel series was really good IMO but theres no justification for JarJar and some of the lousy writing/direction of the 1st two. I would love to see the star wars series turned over to some really good writers/directors, but Lucas won't do it, and he'll probably outlive us all to spite us. If you read some of the books others have written, comics and novels theres a ton of great stories and people that love the characters that could put together a great script but Lucas isn't going to do it.

On a lot of levels I respect him, honestly he could make billions of dollars if he just stepped back and turned the characters over to other directors/writers, etc but he believes in his stories and direction.
Click to expand...

I think people think the 3rd movie was a good movie because compared to the first two it was actually a decently crappy movie.

The first movie was just plain horrible. It doesn't make sense at all. There is nothing about that movie that makes sense. I know Avatar was a shallow movie, however the plot makes some sense.

maynard · Mar 29, 2010

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

I think people think the 3rd movie was a good movie because compared to the first two it was actually a decently crappy movie.

The first movie was just plain horrible. It doesn't make sense at all. There is nothing about that movie that makes sense. I know Avatar was a shallow movie, however the plot makes some sense.
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it was devoid of any depth of drama. avatar's plot was lame, but it never had the hollow feel you say SW did. with avatar, i bought it

its hard to say that if my introduction to SW were the prequels i probably would thought they were crap to be honest.

the prequels just looked fake. the actors appeared exactly like actors talking to each other in strange outfits in front of a green screen. the casting of obi-wan probably saved the entire thing. he was the only believable character...and only for parts of the time

what makes SW diehards angry is that there is a feeling that lucas really didnt give a crap about all that. as long as the shadowing and texture
on the star destroyers and clones looked good, he was happy

if that wasnt the case, then it means that directing them was above him and he should have deferred some responsibility

maynard · Mar 29, 2010

btw, the knights of the old republic games had arguably as good a story as the movies lol

texanphinatic · Mar 29, 2010

maynard said:

it was devoid of any depth of drama. avatar's plot was lame, but it never had the hollow feel you say SW did. with avatar, i bought it

its hard to say that if my introduction to SW were the prequels i probably would thought they were crap to be honest.

the prequels just looked fake. the actors appeared exactly like actors talking to each other in strange outfits in front of a green screen. the casting of obi-wan probably saved the entire thing. he was the only believable character...and only for parts of the time

what makes SW diehards angry is that there is a feeling that lucas really didnt give a crap about all that. as long as the shadowing and texture
on the star destroyers and clones looked good, he was happy

if that wasnt the case, then it means that directing them was above him and he should have deferred some responsibility
Click to expand...

Oh god the casting and acting. What a mess that was. :cry:

maynard · Mar 30, 2010

texanphinatic said:

Oh god the casting and acting. What a mess that was. :cry:
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whats funny is that a lot of the other actors arent bad outside of star wars lol. even hayden isnt too bad. star wars kinda ruined him in some ways

Dol-Fan Dupree · Mar 30, 2010

texanphinatic said:

Oh god the casting and acting. What a mess that was. :cry:
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I think it was more of the directing. From what I understand George Lucas didn't want the actors to take away from the special effects.

Look at Natalie Portman. She is a really good actress. She acted the hell out of her part in V for Vendetta. However in the Star Wars movies she look like she just graduated from drama school.

Like maynard and I were talking about. Avatar's story was pretty lame and was very devoid of a lot of drama. It was however easy to follow and I can tell you people's motivations, even if the motivation is, "Evil corporate guy."

In Star War Prequels it is much harder. I watched them a couple of times and I still do not know why Padme and Anakin fall in love. I have no idea how that happened. It is like they are supposed to, so I have to buy into it.

It is also a really big jump to stopping Mace Windu from killing the future emperor without a trial to going and murdering children.

The plots for the star war prequels are like horrible video game plots. Where the plot doesn't really matter, it is just a vehicle to why you want to blow some stuff up. Watching the prequels is like playing Bayonetta without being able to skip the cut scenes.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Mar 30, 2010

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 1 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AWVLnl48"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 2 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdQwKPVGQsY"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 3 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOlG4T1S2lU"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 4 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvp1r2UpiQ"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 5 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORWPCCzSgu0"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 6 of 7)[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIWKMgJs_Gs"]YouTube- Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 7 of 7)[/ame]

Here is a seven part series on why the movie is so horrible. And it is pretty right.

finfansince72 · Mar 30, 2010

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

I think it was more of the directing. From what I understand George Lucas didn't want the actors to take away from the special effects.

Look at Natalie Portman. She is a really good actress. She acted the hell out of her part in V for Vendetta. However in the Star Wars movies she look like she just graduated from drama school.

Like maynard and I were talking about. Avatar's story was pretty lame and was very devoid of a lot of drama. It was however easy to follow and I can tell you people's motivations, even if the motivation is, "Evil corporate guy."

In Star War Prequels it is much harder. I watched them a couple of times and I still do not know why Padme and Anakin fall in love. I have no idea how that happened. It is like they are supposed to, so I have to buy into it.

It is also a really big jump to stopping Mace Windu from killing the future emperor without a trial to going and murdering children.

The plots for the star war prequels are like horrible video game plots. Where the plot doesn't really matter, it is just a vehicle to why you want to blow some stuff up. Watching the prequels is like playing Bayonetta without being able to skip the cut scenes.
Click to expand...

I agree about the love story being unbelievable and Anakin turning into a child killer in about 10mins of film time was absurd. Lucas paced the series terribly, the 1st movie was literally a throw away movie it added nothing to the series that couldn't have been told in 10 mins of film. I think most fans wanted to see more of Darth Vader and Anakins transformation into him than we got to see. Its kind of sad when you think he had 20 years or so to write this and this is what he came up with.

jdang307 · Apr 1, 2010

There are only a few absolute truths in the universe.

1. Godfather III did not happen.

2. There is only Star Wars movies. Their names are Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.

3. Only siths deal in absolutes.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Apr 5, 2010

Here is 90 minutes on why Attack of the Clones was worse than Phantom Menance.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA"]YouTube- (Part 1 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im7k4LUzA3Y"]YouTube- (Part 2 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux8pCqiiBLA"]YouTube- (Part 3 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGnorxUw4AA"]YouTube- (Part 4 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1L63TdhC8"]YouTube- (Part 5 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-isAmaVbsM"]YouTube- (Part 6 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blkx6axytKQ"]YouTube- (Part 7 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QThD0r3hZg"]YouTube- (Part 8 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0wv2ossJU"]YouTube- (Part 9 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review[/ame]

Soundwave · Apr 7, 2010

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

Here is 90 minutes on why Attack of the Clones was worse than Phantom Menance.

YouTube- (Part 1 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 2 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 3 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 4 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 5 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 6 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 7 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 8 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review

YouTube- (Part 9 of 9) Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones Review
Click to expand...

mmmm... pizza pockets and dead hookers. lol

maynard Who, whom?

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