My fellow Ireland haters, we must convene the grand council and ask for forgiveness.

So now we are supposed to take everything a GM says right before a draft as gospel all of a sudden?

 

Why should we take everything he says after the draft as gospel?

 

It would still be nice to get the facts straight, though. Ireland clearly had interest in Tannehill before Philbin/Sherman arrived but some think he didn't until they were hired.

 

Really? Are we playing games here?

Critics of Jeff Ireland often point out that even though he got a good QB (finally) in Ryan Tannehill, that decision pretty much fell on him because of who the Dolphins hired at Head Coach (and Offensive Coordinator). In reply, people who support Jeff Ireland often point out that Jeff Ireland liked Ryan Tannehill totally independently of Philbin/Sherman. The following are quotes that you often see as evidence of this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/04/30/mmqb/index.html#ixzz25pZhJqSe

Here's another:

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sport...tannehill-should-be-starter-at-somepoint.html

Yet when Gil Brandt called him in JANUARY of 2012 and told him how good Ryan Tannehill was, Jeff's response was...

http://www.miamidolphins.com/media/...-Brandt-/99250dc9-853f-4fb1-b051-be44fc6030a6

So first it was "Ah well we think he’s alright but nothing special (and so forth)." Then some time later according to Brandt (PRIOR TO THE DRAFT), Jeff Ireland tells Gil Brandt, "Boy I hope you didn’t call anybody else" which pretty clearly implies that Jeff Ireland's opinion of Ryan Tannehill has now changed for the better.

This shows that:

1. Jeff Ireland's opinion of Ryan Tannehill changed significantly after the arrival of Philbin/Sherman, and
2. Jeff Ireland is an abject liar.

 

If he never had interest in Tannehill, Tannehill wouldn't be a Dolphin.

 

Uhhh, yeah. That's the pretty clear indication here, chief.

 

We aren't.

This is getting effing annoying.

Before this past draft, Ireland said he was impressed with Tanny.

 

You clearly ignored Ireland's quotes in your own post.

 

b-i-n-g-o

 

Or it shows he wasn't interested in tipping his hand.

 

According to what. What evidence.

 

I only questioned when he started having interest in Tannehill.

 

Yes, there is. He had interest in Tannehill before Philbin arrived. He said so himself.

 

Himself? You posted his quotes. He clearly said in August he gave him a first round grade.

Edit: He didn't go to his games, I believe. I just re read the quote and I don't think he went to his games.

 

OK, let's entertain this theory of yours. HE LIED to Gil Brandt over the phone then, didn't want to tip his hand. Am I correct in assuming that is what you are implying?

Then I have one question for you.

Why did he reveal to Gil Brandt later on, still before the Draft, how much he liked Ryan Tannehill? If he's so interested in keeping it a secret from Gil what he really thinks of Ryan Tannehill, why when he talked to Gil later did he say to him, "Boy I hope you didn't call anyone else"?

 

Yup, its true...he said so just DAYS after drafting him !!!

 

Irrelevant. Jeff Ireland brought in these guys. If they convinced him to draft Tannehill, thats great. His decision to bring in Philbin paid off double if that is the case.

If you're going to suggest that Stephen Ross brought in Philbin (which would be quite a stretch), then you've just validated Stephen Ross as having excellent ability in hiring football people, which would mean his continued support of Ireland is based off an opinion that is now established as being very respectable. Either way you cut it, Ireland's position as GM of the Dolphins has been galvanized for years to come.

Whether he found Tannehill himself or whether a homeless guy on the corner told him to draft Tannehill, he is the one who picked up the phone on draft day and made the call. The information and the process is irrelevant.

 

Golly, you're right. All GMs always tell the exact truth before draft day. Thank you for setting me straight. He has no agenda other than covering his *** because Ross and Philbin forced him to draft Tannehill. I must have been crazy thinking GMs lie leading up to the draft.

 

So? He clearly stated he watched his games during his final season and have him a first round grade in December.

 

Game / Set / Match.

 

Here's the reality. Jeff Ireland has every motivation, every reason to make himself look good. Saying that he loved Ryan Tannehill way before Mike Sherman got here makes him look good. It also makes it look like they drafted Ryan Tannehill because they all liked him, not just Mike Sherman.

What is Gil Brandt's motivation for lying? He is friends with Jeff Ireland. If anything his motivation is to make Jeff Ireland look good. But he's also pretty disconnected from the team (not to mention pretty old) so he's not going be able to carefully craft his message to make sure it doesn't conflict with anything that Jeff Ireland has already claimed publicly. Reality is, Gil Brandt was just telling the truth. He called Jeff Ireland in January and told him I really love this kid Ryan Tannehill, and Jeff's response was lukewarm. "Nothing special". Later, still before the Draft mind you, he calls Gil Brandt and says I hope you didn't call anyone else about him. Why? Because his opinion had changed for the better. It just so happens that Mike Sherman, Ryan Tannehill's college coach, had joined the staff.

There's nothing particulalrly wrong with Jeff Ireland's opinion of Ryan Tannehill changing over time. There really isn't. I've been doing this long enough to know that opinions on players change a lot more from January to April than front offices like to pretend they do. There's also nothing wrong with Ireland starting to like Tannehill more because Mike Sherman was now in the fold. It's only rational for him to like him more because of that.

What I disagree with, are merely two things:

1. Unabashedly lying directly to the press,

2. The theory that Jeff Ireland should be praised for drafting Tannehill because he loved him even before Mike Sherman arrived.

I have an ethical issue with #1, and I think the theory espoused in #2 was just pretty clearly de-bunked by Gil Brandt.

 

Was that stated in the interview? That he called Brandt later on and told him he liked Tannehill?

 

I also do agree with this.

In the end, he got the right guy.

 

1. Who cares? Is this a negative?

2. Why should there be any qualifiers? Jeff Ireland should be praised for drafting Tannehill, period. The machinations of the process aren't relevant.

 

Holy crap is this pointless. To make things simple and civil, I go on record simply stating that at week 6, at 3-3, it is too soon to alter my previous opinion of our GM.

 

Nice try but this net of logic has holes in it big enough for a whale to escape. Yes I do absolutely believe Stephen Ross was more responsible for Joe Philbin than Jeff Ireland was. I have quite a bit of evidence on my side for that one, as a matter of fact. It's not such a shock really. Everyone pretty easily accepts that Stephen Ross was responsible for the Jim Harbaugh chase as well as the Jeff Fisher chase, but suddenly it's unthinkable that he would have been responsible for the guy that the Dolphins ultimately hired.

Where your logic falls into wet toilet paper territory is the implication that this automatically makes Stephen Ross a fine judge of "football people", and (laughably) that must mean that every single one of his decisions on "football people" is automatically right. I hope you're not actually serious in those implications.

First off, Steve Ross could easily have just gotten lucky in his chasing of Jim Harbaugh, Jeff Fisher and Joe Philbin. Ever hear the phrase, "right for all the wrong reasons"? Or what about "better lucky than good"? Jim Harbaugh was a Michigan alum and a big name in the college football world, Jeff Fisher was a big name, and Joe Philbin was offensive coordinator for the all-out aerial attack that was the envy of the league in 2011, the kind of all-out aerial attack by the way that Steve Ross had publicly espoused many times prior to the hiring of Joe Philbin.

Second, let's go ahead and assume Steve Ross IS a good judge of "football people". Why the hell does that mean he can't be wrong? LMFAO. He did, after all, give Tony Sparano a contract extention and then fire him less than a year into it. Was that evidence of the infallibility of Steve Ross?

 

Yes.

 

Of course everyone accepts those things. Everyone also accepted us destined for a top-5 pick in this upcoming draft. That doesn't mean their assumptions are accurate. The fact that the owner makes the public moves does not mean that the owner is responsible for the process behind those moves.

Certainly much more plausible than "everyone but Ireland" was responsible.

Right, Stephen Ross just said "hey out of all the assistants in the league, I think this guy Philbin would make a great HC". If only we could have gone through these mental acrobatics before it became apparent that Ireland's future with Miami will last much longer than people hoped before this season.

 

IMO whether Ireland gets credit for Tannehill or not is based totally on whether Ireland has the ultimate accountability for making draft picks.

If he has that accountability, he gets the credit if Tannehill pans out, and the blame if he doesn't.

If you're the one making the decision and putting your *** on the line when you send that card up to Roger Goodell, you get the credit if the name on it ends up being the right one.

 

I agree with this. Never disagreed with it.

 

A+ thread. Would read again.

 

This is really a terrible point, just poor logic, poor choice of comparison.

Now this on the other hand is a fair point to make, although you do erect a straw man argument here. I don't disagree that Jeff Ireland had a hand in setting the table, so to speak. I never said that everyone EXCEPT Ireland gets credit for the hiring of Joe Philbin. That was your straw man.

But two points I would raise:

1. Yes I do believe it a fact that even if Ireland had a hand in setting the table, his pick was Mike McCoy not Joe Philbin. That means something.
2. Why in hell is the hiring of Joe Philbin so obviously a credit to ANYONE, at this point, 6 games into his Head Coaching career?

 

Right, but that doesn't change the fact that believing Ross was the one who targeted Harbaugh or Fisher is still a huge assumption. I don't accept that it was Stephen Ross going after them anymore than I accept it was Jeff Ireland.

1. What does it mean? We have little to zero idea who wanted who. All we have is a comment by Adam Schefter, whose motivations are unknown.
2. Sure, thats a legitimate point. Regardless, I still think its fair to assess where things stand today.

 

This topic is like a Rorschach test where the ink has been replaced with human feces.

 

Do you really believe Ross had to go find a coach on his own without Ireland? Ireland the same guy that Ross praises as one of the best GM's in football?

Even if he did. So what. Is Ireland working with Philbin? or just wanting to do things his way only? I mean really get a freakin leg to stand on before crying day after day.

 

We have quite a bit more than that. We also have Mike McCoy's direct quotes, between his saying that Jeff Ireland told him that he would be sending a jet for he and his family the next day, and McCoy's admission that he refused the Oakland interview because he had been led to believe he was getting the Miami job. We also have a prominent member of the media telling Simon off the record that McCoy has become Ireland's favorite and Philbin has become Ross' favorite and thus far it appears Ireland is winning the debate. If you want to choose to believe it's still just Adam Schefter, that's your prerogative, but there's more to it than that.

 

Quit crying. It's unbecoming.

 

Certainly I don't believe something like McCoy refusing an interview because he was led to believe he was getting the Miami job. That just doesn't make sense. Having another suitor would just give him more negotiating leverage. His agent would never let him turn down an interview like that. I just have a hard time putting any faith in these suggestions by the media. There are too many ulterior motives that don't fit the narrative we have.

 

Even if it's McCoy himself who is saying so?