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My heart goes out to Zach and Jason

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SICK, Dec 28, 2008.

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  1. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Hey Sam, I'm not trashing either. As my previous post states, I love both of them for what they did here. Wouldn't be a fan probably if it weren't for them, along with my dad. But I don't think you would disagree with anything I said above. JT wasn't 100 percent committed here, and I think that was enough for Parcells. This team needed a new direction, with new leaders, and I think, as tough as it is for me to say this, made a good decision. Don't get me wrong though, I will always root for these two. They made me the Dolphins fan I am today.
     
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  2. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Thats not what people are saying. We all know he isn't a Moss, or TO, or Plax. What people have an issue with, is that they do not think he was 100 percent committed to this team this year, and to the new regime. Heck, many people feel he wasn't 100 percent committed to any of the others ither. We all know he was a great player and great for the community in Miami. Thats not the issue.
     
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  3. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    There is no doubt that JT needed to go. In fact, I remember saying that as soon as the rumblings started hitting the press and the BS hald denials and trying to smooth things over had begun, that Miami needed to part ways with JT and vice versa.

    My reasoning was, the quicker to get it over with, the less it hurts. Like taking a band-aid off. Sure, it might sting at first, but it heals quicker in the end.

    Same deal here. It sucked to see JT elsewhere, but winning cures all and I harbor no ill will towards the guy. :hi5:
     
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  4. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    I agree. And I also believe that they are both kicking themselves for leaving Miami though. No matter what they say, JT and all of his you never know stuff, they are kicking themselves tonight. Just like stocks. You would kick yourself forever if you fought through years of downs and losses, just to sell out, and then just a few months later miss out on MASSIVE gains. It has to sicken both of them, especially since they both stated intentions on going to contenders...
     
  5. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    People are talking about Jason Taylor and his community services
     
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  6. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    He has done a lot more for the Miami community than just play football for the Miami Dolphins. The Jason Taylor Foundation I am sure has helped a lot of people. A few weeks ago, he came back and held the event in Miami and alot of current Dolphins players went to play ping pong. Regardless, he might only care about himself and his career. But don't we all to some degree?
     
  7. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    These are probably the same people that gave up on Ricky, who could never get over the fact that Ricky had personal issues and could never forgive him for his past actions.

    I will never understand why people hate on JT so much. JT has always shown nothing but love for this organization, yet didn't think that we had a snowballs chance in hell of winning anything this year. He didn't demand a trade, he just chose to skip the OTAs. He was all set to play the entire season for the Phins as hard as he could on every down just as he always had in the past. He showed up to training camp to prepare and get this team ready, only to find out that he was being traded.

    If you want to hate on JT for the rest of your lives you must include Parcells in that since he was primarily responsible for driving that wedge in between JT and the team. JT tried to mend the fence but Parcells wanted none of that and got what he could for him.

    Please stop saying that "JT chose to leave". The fact is that he didn't have a choice. Parcells was the one who made the choice, in making that trade.
     
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  8. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Are you not reading what I am saying? Obviously JT didn't pull the trigger to leave, but he did premeditate what happened. Like I said earlier, he wasn't 100 percent committed to this new regime, and that was all Parcells needed to know to show him the door. He wanted everyone on the same page. Parcells could have been more leniant, but JT also could have been more committed. It just didn't work out.
     
  9. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I did not say that Alex44 did.:pity:
     
  10. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    haha. We are on the same page man. I thought you were using his line, and agreeing with it. I hear you though. my bad, its late and theres been a lot of drinking today. Great day!
     
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  11. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    Apologize again. My thoughts on this go as follows. Parcells came in, wanted to build a focused, disciplined football team with accountability being number one. And while he was trying to instill this, his team leader was off, away from camp, dancing with a beautiful woman on national television, for weeks. It just didn't mix right with what Parcells was trying to do, let alone be a distraction. Both were stubborn. Parcells could have been more lenient, and JT could have been more committed. Things just didn't mesh. The dolphins got an offer they couldn't refuse (even JT said he would have accepted the offer if he was in the dolphins case). Boddda Bing. We move on. New leaders who are 100 percent committed in the regime and their plans step up, and we have a young team who has turned in a miracle season, ending with an 11-5 regular season record. This rebuilding project needed new blood. They needed new leaders. And I think this had a great part in how this year turned out. Everyone bought into the new system...which hasn't happened in previous years. ahh and getting Pennington was also a gift from baby jesus.
     
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  12. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    He was disloyal. Football is a game built on relationships and trust. Taylor broke that trust with his employers, his former teammates, and with the DolFans. He made it clear to management he was not wanting to be part of this team when he agreed to be on DWTS back last December. It was the 1st salvo fired in that epic battle of wits with Bill Parcells. Taylor had a chance to totally redeem himself, even after DWTS when he had his "press conference". He once again made it clear he was not going to be at TC on time, unless he was traded. The way he did it diminished his trade value, and that is what I believe irked Parcells the most.....its was the selfishness that Taylor was showing.

    When Taylor made the decision to go that route, is when he lost me for good. He is out of the playoffs today because of what he did, and now the Redskins will also pay a price because of his selfishness, with the loss of that 2nd round pick.
     
  13. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    and 7th right? And I think I agree with what you are saying. JT just wasn't 100 percent committed, probably not even close to that. That irked Parcells. It's really as simple as that.
     
  14. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Parcells was trying to get rid of JT but everytime JT opened his mouth, missed a mandatory OTA, or talked about working in Hollywood as an actor it HURT THE TRADE VALUE ! Helllooooooooooo that is what made Parcells to bitter and determined. For a player of his caliber we should have recieved no less than a 1st or a 2nd and a starting player. We never got fair compensation, and that also made me bitter towards JT.
     
  15. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I cut out everything to focus upon these statements because I like almost every former Dolphins player. Heck, we live a portion of our lives resting our hopes on them. But to the point....

    They were paid. They were paid a king's ransom. In Wannstedt's final year, the starting defense accounted for close to 50% of our salary cap. These two were a large portion of that 50%. I would argue that at one point they accounted for 15 to 20% of the salary cap. Was it their fault for taking the money? No, I would take it too. But when you account for this much of the salary, it is up to you to make the plays. They played and they were paid. Much is required if much is received.

    The pay cuts you mention were not pay cuts at all. It was salary defered to the end of their contracts. Wannstedt mortgaged the future on that defense. I cannot bring myself to "feel sorry" for two guys that were taking the money when they and their salaries were largely responsible for the price we had to pay for the past five years.

    As to what is owed them, the answer is nothing. The Dolphins were in contention from the moment these two entered the league. They had an all time great for a QB. They were among two of the tremendous finds from a terrific talent evaluator (Johnson). It's difficult to fault them for the team being handed over to a complete goofball (Wannstedt) but when you look at their salaries during the goofball's tenure you come to the conclusion that they were not victims. They were culprits. The fans were the victims.

    I could make an argument that the owner was a victim as HE was the one who was actually fleeced for billions on a failed plan. It wasn't too long ago that you turn on local media in Miami and hear one man being stoned to death. That man was neither Taylor nor Thomas. No, they wore the "white hat" in town as Mr. H was blamed for wasting their years away. All that Mr. H had done was follow the plan that brought Taylor and Thomas to Miami. Jimmy Johnson brought them there. Jimmy Johnson had Dave annointed as the next king. Taylor and Thomas were part of the same plan. Every coach you can list after Johnson and Wannstedt were tied to Wannstedt's commitment to them. That is until one guy arrived in town who had the stones to say.........

    "The gig is up."
     
  16. baboo72

    baboo72 Bleeding aqua & orange

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    To be honest it feels like both guys retired as they didn't stand out on their respective new teams and we've been used to hearing about them day in and day out for the last decade or so. They both deserved something from all they gave us but then Dan deserved more than 1 superbowl appearance. I caught myself thinking about ZT rather than JT especially with all the crap that went/goes on at the Cowboys
     
  17. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    I loved them both, but they are multi-millionaires living their dream of being professional football players. I feel no sympathy for them whatsoever.
     
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  18. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    I do for Zach, only because he didnt want to leave, and I think again he would have been a great anchor, but it is what it is.
     
  19. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    didn't zt choose to sign with the cowboys despite the egomaniacs?
     
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  20. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    You were never going to get more then what we got for JT, not to sure why you insist we would have. And fyi jt saying he was going to play blah blah, that was him trying to help his trade value.
     
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  21. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    and the fo made it clear they were trying to get rid of him no?
    I feel bad in so far as I would like to see both of them win the big one. I don't feel bad as both made their decisions. I will not however, try to fool myself into believing one is holier then the other or the fo walks on water, just so I can cheer for the dolphins.
     
  22. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    tru dat dawg
     
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  23. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    thanks for the insight Montel.
     
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  24. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange New Member

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    What's all this about Zach and JT "deserving" a division title? Seems to me that they had plenty of opportunities to win a division title, and never did after 2000. Shall we count the ways:

    2002: Losing to 2 non-playoff teams to end the season, and missing the playoffs completely. Losing the final game to NE, despite having the lead.

    2003: Losing twice to NE, including giving up a long bomb in overtime to lose the game at home. Or how about getting run over by the Eagles' offense at home, on Monday night, during a game in which our offense actually showed up for a change. That loss was 100% on the defense. Missed the playoffs completely, again.

    And let's not forget the fact that even when the team did make it to the playoffs, the defense did little or nothing. The win against the Colts in 2000 was due to L. Smith having the game of his life. The team then gets crushed in Oakland. The Zach and JT-led defenses did little or nothing once they got out of the wilcard round. Denver, Jacksonville, Oakland, all crushed them.

    Of course, the losses aren't 100% on their shoulders and certainly everyone from Wayne, to Wanny, to Fiedler, to Mare are partially to blame. But JT and Zach had their chances and did nothing with them.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I'm sorry but I disagree big time.

    A great team leader is Penny. There are no similarities between Penny & JT's "leadership" styles. JT was a whiner & Penny is a winner.

    But then again I'm not the type of fan that feels they have to attribute every possible positive quality onto a player, even if they don't have it. Like ZT. My favorite player of all time period. However, as great and amazing as he was, he was no leader. Not even a bad one. Just simply not a leader. Doesn't change his greatness.
     
  26. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    no one said they deserve a division title....i said they deserved to have what this franchise has now.....a smart gm and coach, great coaches and FO and people that build this team through the draft the right way!
     
  27. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I'm with you sick. They were the Dolphins for many years. I hate that they aren't here to celebrate with us.
    They never had a chance with the coaching staffs we had.
    I'd love to see them retire here as Dolphins.
     
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  28. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    I miss 'em too, and I was happy for ZT when he signed with the 'Boys figuring they would have a real shot this season, JT going to the Skins didn't seem like the best move for his career, especially with the G-Men and Dallas looking so good on paper, but hell, anywhere but Miami seemed like a better shot in the wake of last year's season.
     
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  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Didn't some all time greats bolt the Phins back in the 70's? Maybe some of the older folks can help me out here.

    You criticize JT for what he does, you have to look throughout Dolphins history. With Dan Marino, and I believe Czonk and a few others. This is nothing new, and again, its their livelihood. They might make the wrong decision in hindsight, but you can't make these decisions in hindsight.

    I like how it's Ok for Parcells to dump a loved player (Zach) but when a player does the same to Parcells, it's so egregious. It's a game to us, it's their lives to them. They have to be self-interested as well.
     
  30. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I think you have a short term memory. Who were the leaders of the team during the Wannstedt era? Remember when Ricky bolted? ZT and JT again took the weight of the team on their shoulders.

    Who would you consider the team leader the past 2 seasons before 2008? Remember when JT won DPOY? Who was our leader then? Ronnie? No. Joey Harrington? No. Of course it was JT and ZT. These guys have been the team leaders the past 8 years. They were the team when we had no offense, when we had no superstars in the making (Long, Ronnie, Ginn)
     
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  31. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    well said...great point brotha :up:
     
  32. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Its the way they left, Zach was gracious and never asked to leave, in fact he still talks with Crowder twice a week giving him tips on our next opponents.

    Taylor didn't want to be here, I'm thankful for what Did while here, but I don't feel bad for him at all.

    Zach still helps us, and I truly believe he would love to be here, Taylor I'm just not so sure.
     
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  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    My memory is fine. Maybe you should refine your concept of what makes a leader and then what makes them a good or bad one.

    Winning the DPOY does not make you a leader. Good or bad. It makes you a good player at your position, but not a leader.

    This is my point. So many people just want to heap every bit of praise on a player they like, warranted or not. Zach was never a leader. He's even admitted to such. Just not his style. It doesn't take anything away from him. he was helluva a player and teacher, but he was not a leader of men. JT was a leader. A piss-poor one though. He was always whining. He lead them to nothing. Name one time his "leadership" skills helped our team? Sacks and tackles are not leadership qualities btw.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm fine with that. Nobody has to feel sorry for them, they're grown men making grown men decisions, and making millions. But not feeling sorry for them or JT is different than dumping JT under the bus as if he is one of the lowliest Dolphins ever to wear the uni.
     
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  35. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    another thing that alot of people forget, JT showed up for training camp. If the Redskins didn't lose 2 defensive ends on the first day of training camp (Phillip Daniels and Alex Buzbee), JT would probably be here right now celebrating this with us.
     
  36. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Or we could be 8-8 and he could have been the biggest distraction that we had on our team.
     
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