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Need these 3 to pick up their game in the second half of the season:

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Nov 6, 2022.

  1. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Josh boyer. Trainwreck right now. Hes guessing. And frankly, he needs to clean this up.

    Jason saunders. Enough. Find your game.


    Mike McDaniel. Breath of fresh air. Difference maker. True. But his game management shows hes a rookie.
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    His game management makes a lot more sense with the running game he had at SF and a better defense. With our personnel he needs to rely on the passing game even with a small lead, i.e., don't get conservative until near the very end of the game because we don't have a good running game and our defense is crap. If opponents can't stop Hill and Waddle for 3 quarters, they won't be able to do it in the 4th.

    I don't mind his time wasting near the end of the 1st half though. There's a logic to lowering the chance of both teams scoring before halftime. But getting conservative with several minutes left in the 4th doesn't make sense with the team we have right now.

    Anyway, I think he's going to be a great coach, but he needs to find the right DC.
     
  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    McDaniel will learn. He's a rookie, and things will come more naturally to him as he gains experience.

    Boyer needs to be toast the day that the season is over. Our defense has been absolute trash against average or better opponents for two full years now, going back to the middle of 2020.

    Last year, we were on pace to have the worst defense in team history through eight weeks. This year, we're now worse.
     
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  4. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I can support McDaniel going for the 4th down in the 4th quarter. I’ve read that there’s actually a bigger chance of losing with a 4-6 point lead than a 3 point lead late in the 4th. Basically with a 4-6 point lead the opposition is wired into going for TDs and 4th down conversions, while with a 3 point lead they’ll settle for running out the clock and taking a FG shot.

    Having said that discipline is a problem and the lack of production from the D and ST so far over the season is disappointing, all of which are in his remit to control.
     
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  5. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    It was about this time last year that Flores took over the defence again and it became much, much better. From what we have seen this year it looks pretty clear that Boyer got bailed out by Flores last year. There is no one to bail him out this year.
     
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    That was the point that we started playing a string of bad teams with bad quarterbacks, and the defense was able to force them into enough mistakes that we got by. Every team that we played from Week 9-16 sucked last year except the Ravens, who were absolutely destroyed by injuries.
     
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  7. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    If your players are all healthy, you can run the system you spent all offseason working on. When injuries happen, you have to adjust to put the backups (and sometimes the backups backups) in positions to succeed, allowing for the fact that they are probably not as good/fast/experienced as those they replaced. Boyer does not seem to be able to do that.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For three seasons now, the defense started slow and moved into elite status in the 2nd half of the season. I know we have some key players out but for the moment, I'm giving Boyer the benefit of the doubt. They did shut the game down in the 2nd half last week (Detroit), and they kept Chicago from making a final score this week. Not what any of us want to see, but we are winning and I'm content as long as the W's continue.

    The thing is, if this D finds its form from the past two years, we're going to be beating teams 50-10 in Super Bowl champion form. And while I'd love that as much as any of us, I'm okay with the potential to be there for now and to hopefully see that potential show up in another 4-6 weeks.
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    That's really not correct. I think that you're strongly conflating winning games with playing good defense.

    In 2020, the defense outright sucked a large portion of the time in the second half. They needed to rely on turnovers and win shootouts for the victories that they earned. There were no defensive showcases, except perhaps vs Cam Newton and the Patriots. And then last year, the teams and quarterbacks that they played were generally awful down the stretch.
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Just to point out how crucial it is we get our defense in order by the time the playoffs start, only twice since the 1970 merger has a SB winner had a defense ranked as low as (or close to as low as) 25th in point allowed, which is where we are currently: Indy in 2006 won the SB with a 23rd ranked defense, and the Giants in 2011 won with a 25th ranked defense. However, in both cases those defenses played very well throughout much of the playoffs.

    It's VERY unlikely to win the SB with a defense playing this poorly. Something like only 4% of the time do you win, and that's IF the defense starts playing well come playoff time. This is a serious problem. "Giving Boyer the benefit of the doubt" might be the difference between making a SB run and wasting a great offense.
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, we're not going to release him mid-year and install a new defense. One of our top corners is also out, which makes a night and day difference in our coverage abilities, how we can rush, etc. We saw it over and over again the past two seasons- when both corners were healthy, we dominated on D. With one out, we struggled.
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I actually would. Said that a few weeks ago. It's not like the defense was going to play much worse since then. The window of opportunity is fast closing here. I really hope it doesn't come back to bite us.

    If Byron comes back it's a different story, but will he come back? I have concerns.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, that's the million dollar question- he's been day to day for over a month now.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    No, certainly. But we can look forward to a massive change in the offseason, hopefully. Fingers crossed that Vic Fangio is interested in taking the Wade Phillips route and being the DC with a young, offensive minded HC for a while.
     
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  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to go with Phillips, Holland and Howard. Those are supposed to the strong points of our defense. Phillips was out of position and lost contain on a lot of Fields big runs. Maybe Howard’s groin is impacting his play but he’s been abused all season long. Holland played at a top 5 level last year and his play has dropped off this year. If those guys step up, this is a different defense and team.
     
  16. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    With the season X is having you could say both our top corners are out. Either X is starting to decline real fast or that injury is lingering and he's playing through it but he's not the same player this year.

    I think Byron is done for the year, something isn't right with him.

    I don't think we can win Superbowl with this defence, I'm not even sure we can win a playoff game with them.
     
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  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    He tried to throw deep to Waddle and was way under thrown. It was not all about the rush
     
  18. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    If a single player being out causes your defense to not work, you got a serious issue with the defense.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It wasn't "way" under thrown. Waddle could have caught the ball if he went up for it. Plus the defender hitting the ball was pretty much just luck.

    I am sure Tua would want that throw back, but at the same time, it wasn't 100% his fault.
     
  20. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I think Holland has likely played way better then we suspect. He seems to be covering up for a lot of the issues in the backfield.
     
  21. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    OMG stop! It was a touchdown if Tua throws it out there in stride.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You stop.
     
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    True, but it was mostly about the rush. On 1st and 2nd down they ran and gained a total of -1 yards. He has the rushing attack SF had that kind of play calling makes more sense. But given how poor our running game is, and how good our passing game is, that's bad play calling. We got real lucky with a non-DPI call on the next drive so that the game doesn't go into OT (at minimum).

    McDaniel needs to rely on the passing game heavily not just during most of the game, but all the way up to right before the very end. We'd be a much tougher team to beat if he did that (maybe on average 3+ points difference in scoring?).
     
  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I'll not stop being honest. Tua missed him, plain and simple.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    lol OK. Stop.
     
  26. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    He also had a throw to TE that would have been a first down had the TE for some bizarre reason not turned his head away from the QB.
     
  27. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Even if they were to cut ties with Boyer now or before the bye week, who do you replace him with for a playoff run?
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    his players were in the position to make plays. They didn't make the tackle. Boyer can't tackle for them.
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'd offer a ton of money to Keith Butler and see if he comes out of retirement.
     
  30. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Byron almost seems like he doesn't want to play. The vibe around him and that injury is just kind of weird. Either that or it was much worse than anyone thought and nobody wants to say it for some reason.

    IMO the Chubb move was made with the idea that Jones is out most/all of the season and likely not a Phin next year. Moving more from the Patriot elite CB model into the standard down line pressure model.

    Overall, I'd say the Browns game is a vital test. We consider the Lions and Bears to be low level teams, but if we want to be fair the Lions have scored in bunches in multiple games and the Bears put up near 250yds rushing and 30 points for three weeks in a row against the Pats, then Cowboys then us. But really that just takes the sting off a bit, we still left A LOT to be desired.

    The Browns can run, but Brisset is the QB type we usually feast on and our run D is good. If we can hold them to a lowish total we might give Boyer more time to try and remake the defense away from what it had been. If the Browns put up 24+ on us in our house then I think we need to make a move. The bye + home against Houston is the place. Gotta be right before we head out to that west coast road trip.
     
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  31. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Given where we are in the season, would he (or whoever they brought in) have enough time to make effective changes? I would imagine installing a new scheme takes a fair amount of time.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Can't install a completely new scheme this late. However, in-game adjustments are another story. Need someone better than Boyer there.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, Needham was a great backup- so we're really down to CB3 on that side of the ball. The cover zero is all about being able to shut down routes in man...we just can't do that.
     
  34. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    The other issue with switching him out now is, unless you have someone who is considering coming out of retirement, virtually all of your other candidates are currently employed, and whose employers are unlikely to allow them to interview with us mid season.
     
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  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Not only is Needham out, but Brandon Jones is out. His ability to blitz had a lot to do with the cover zero success.
     
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  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Has that really ever happened - firing a coordinator in the season and replacing them with someone who wasn't on staff and hadn't been at any recent time? Maybe it has, but it seems an unlikely thing overall.

    The more likely answer is that we promote from within, though who on our staff would be best suited for that step up is not something I have an answer for.
     
  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I really don't think that Boyer is going to get fired mid season. Not with the team 6-3, potentially headed to 8-3. More likely, we change in the offseason. Fingers crossed.
     
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  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or...Jones comes back, the D plays lights out, we win a Super Bowl, and then we don't have to replace anyone. I'm always the optimist, LoL, and hope for the easiest path to success. I could be way off on this one though.
     
  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I don't care if we win every game the rest of the way and end as champions, I want Boyer fired. Don't let emotions get in the way of making the right long term choice.
     
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  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If we win the rest of the way and end up as champions, then that means our D did really well down the stretch, at least in the playoffs. In that case you keep Boyer. That means he figured it out.
     
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