1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New England is DONE

Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by GARDENHEAD, Jan 11, 2010.

Tags:
  1. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    [​IMG]
     
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Meh...look where the RG and RT are lined up. From this angle it looks like the WR is lined up with them and if he's not he may be 6" further back. My line isn't perfect, but it's close and shows that his foot is about where the lineman's hands are. A little further back, but not egregious.

    Hey, how about that PI call against the Jags? Or the Jesse James "no" catch"?

    upload_2018-2-12_8-19-35.png
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    6"? Dude is about 4-5' off the LOS.

    Receivers must be on the line, and the only ones who are allowed to be staggered in their stance are lineman or attached ends. Any flexed or split ends must be on the LOS.

    *Hopefully they finally get the catch rule straight soon and simplify for less judgment calls. James, IMO, made a TD catch vs NE because he got both feet (knee actually), snagged the ball, began to bring it down, and then in a secondary motion reached across the goalline. Play was over then, and the balls movement when it hit the ground in the EZ was irrelevant.
     
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    The actual line of scrimmage is the back of the football. Only the center and TE are "on" the LOS. Then there is the neutral zone and the front tip of the ball is also the LOS. In this picture the defender is maybe off sides. The WR in question is ~6" back from the RT judging that his foot is about at the back of the RT's helmet.


    Anyhow, it's not blatant and there is subjectivity to exactly where everyone should be because it's not like there are lasers out there showing the LOS.


    upload_2018-2-12_13-22-42.png
     
  5. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    I don't want to sound like a dick, but you don't have to explain to me the detailed rules of football. A receiver, flexed or split end, who must cap off the tackle, is not allowed to be staggered off the LOS like a lineman which is based on the outside foot alignment of the lineman next to them closest to the football.

    I always enjoy outside the box mental exercises (especially when bias is involved), so picture the teams flipped here. I heavily suspect if that was the Patriots who ran that play to score on 4&Goal before the half, you would be hounding the **** out of them, and claiming the refs are in Belichick's back pocket.

    There's no grey area here. It was a missed call, and an illegal formation.
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    He capped off the tackle. I'd bet that 50 out of 100 plays in the NFL look just like this one. Meaning someone is back an ~6" or more from the LOS. And no, I wouldn't be upset if the Pats lined up this way. They probably did the entire game anyhow. Here are clips from each teams first drive. I circled where there was at least a 6" difference in where they lined up. Now, either one was offsides or the other wasn't on the line. If I went through the entire game I could probably pull up many examples.

    upload_2018-2-12_13-53-29.png

    upload_2018-2-12_13-55-54.png
     
  7. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    And in each example they are lined up with the center and the football, not the slightly offset stagger of the guards and tackles.
     
  8. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    No they are not. In both examples the WR's are not inline with each other but slightly off. Since that's the case then one is offsides or one is not on the LOS.
     
  9. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    Those WR's are NOT staggered off the LOS like guards and tackles. Back to the original discussion of that 4&Goal, that WR was staggered and therefore it was an illegal formation.

    You're being ridiculous, and are frankly incredulous to think anyone but the Patriots are subjected to favorable calls on occasion.
     
  10. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I've stated repeatedly that the refs miss calls. If you think the refs aren't clearly biased towards the Pats, however, you're not watchinf enough football. lol

    My point is, this particular call is pretty consistently inconsistently called. Why? There is a lot of subjectivity to it. The LOS is a concept and not written in stone. If you want to get anal about what the LOS is we could measure it to the millimeter and players would be off the line or offsides on every play. But that's not going to happen. If you watch the play in question the WR asks the ref if he's lined up OK. The ref must have said yes. No?

    Here's a great piece from PFT:

    Were the Eagles lined up in an illegal formation when Nick Foles caught a touchdown pass on a fourth-and-goal trick play? Not according to the NFL.

    A league source tells PFT that the league views it as a judgment call, not a call that was clearly right or clearly wrong.


    The question is whether the wide receiver was on the line of scrimmage, in which case the formation was legal, or behind the line of scrimmage, in which case the Eagles only had six players on the line and were in an illegal formation.

    The official thought the wide receiver was lined up close enough on the line to be covering the right tackle, and as a result the league doesn’t believe the Eagles got the benefit of a bad call.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ossible-illegal-formation-as-a-judgment-call/
     
  11. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,344
    5,514
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    LMAO. That X is so far off the LOS.
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  13. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Did you see him ask the ref if he is OK? Do you think there's a conspiracy between him and the ref? Do you think the ref missed the call? Do you agree that it's subjective? I mean, I guess there's subjectivity on 99% of all calls, but this is something that goes on 1 out of 2 plays. He was covering the tackle.
     
  14. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

    2,642
    855
    113
    Oct 25, 2010
    Maryland
    Man what the duck did I resurrect.
     
    eltos_lightfoot likes this.
  15. clrockny24

    clrockny24 New Member

    5
    4
    3
    Dec 6, 2017
    So does anyone think New England is anywhere close to being done? I think as long as they have Brady and Belichick, they will still be there. There was talk about them disbanding with the ESPN article, but I can't really see that happening, at least not for a few years. They did lose their defensive coordinator, but they weren't that great on defense to begin with - and they still almost won the super bowl.

    Yeah they haven't had the best free agency, losing a few key guys, but they added some guys as well, like Jeremy Hill, Jason McCourty, and Cordarelle Patterson. My guess is that Belichick and Brady put whatever turmoil they have aside and focus on winning, and they probably have at least two more super bowl runs left.
     
  16. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    No matter their QB, as long as Belichick is there and they cheat they will always be a favorite to win the AFCE.

    Their defense was top 5 last year. Their defense has been phenomenal since 2001.
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Garden...I'm going to remove this bullseye from your chest and take over this thread.

    I am proclaiming that the Pats are done. No more Super Bowls for them starting 2018. I see too many cracks. They may still get to the playoffs because I see more cracks among the other AFCE opponents, but their days of dominating the NFL are OVER!!


    (Please let this happen)
     
  18. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    25,491
    11,070
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    While I can agree that the days of dominating the "NFL" may be over, their cracks aren't as big as we hope.
    - the AFC is weak, I don't see anyone beating NE this year. I really thought JAX dropped a huge opportunity to upgrade their QB to give them a great shot to dethrone the Patsies in AFC. Who else will contend? Pittsburgh (nope), KC? (nope)
    - the best teams (outside of NE) are in NFC, so I can see New England making the SuperBowl again and losing again
     
    danmarino likes this.
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    92,667
    45,149
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Well you have Brady saying he just wants to feel appreciated which implies he doesn’t.

    Then you have the Pats letting go his best receiver, his best running back, and his best o lineman, not really trying win for the guy it seems..
     
    danmarino and eltos_lightfoot like this.
  20. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    The biggest thing (besides cheating and the refs) that has helped the Pats be so dominate is their cohesiveness and stability. In 18 years they've had one HC and one starting QB. Since 2011 they've had the same OC and DC. In the last 18 they've had something like only 4 OC's and 4 DC's. In that same period of time, and if you include interims, the Dolphins have had 9 HC's. And I'm not going to look and see how many DC's and OC's.

    Anyhow, the Pats were always thought of as BB's team. After this last season, I'm not sure if I think that anymore. It seems like Brady and Kraft have teamed up against BB in some ways. I think that cohesiveness id dwindling. Kraft made BB get rid of Jimmy G. Did BB hold Butler out of the SB out of spite? To show Kraft and Brady that they can't win without him? Who knows, but I think the signs are there.

    As far as who can supplant them in the AFC, I think there are a few. Steelers are definitely in play. KC has shown that they can beat the Pats. The Ravens and Jax have the defenses that tend to keep the Pats in check. (IMO, the Jags were robbed last year against the Pats). No one in the AFCE will stand a chance against them (Now that I've said that the Dolphins will go 14-2...lol) so they will make the playoffs again. And most likely have a bye, again.

    From year to year a lot of things change in the NFL. Well, except for the Pats. However, I think some other dark horse AFC team will challenge them next season. I mean, the Jags went from 3 to 10 wins, for example.

    (And before I get the typical closet Patriot fans claiming that Brady is GOAT and BB is a genius...I think Brady is a HoF QB and I think BB is a great coach. BB in particular is a great defensive mastermind. Brady is average athletically. Highly competitive. Really smart. He has definitely gotten better over his 17 seasons. However, I think the cheating has definitely given them both that extra edge in order to be thought of in that GOAT category. And I, for one, will not give them that title because I just don't now how good they would have been without the cheating.)
     
  21. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,116
    7,009
    113
    May 7, 2008
    New Orleans
    I wear the bullseye with pride, but I am happy to include you if you like.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    92,667
    45,149
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I don’t think you can have this much discontent on a team and survive the grind of a season..

    I don’t ever doubt Brady but I do think his pride is hurt..I’ve never bought into that narrative that his skills were diminishing over the last five years narrative, I knew his training techniques, I could see his foot quickness wasnt getting slower and his velocity wasn’t diminishing, but I think he does t like his head coach anymore..
     
    danmarino likes this.
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    92,667
    45,149
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    check this big Fu## you to Tom hardy by his organization..

    sorry tom, were gonna get rid of your best receiver in brandon Cooks, your young great left tackle protector in Nate solder, and your best utility back who was really good and effective in Dion Lewis..

    thats crazy man, and its BS..
     
    danmarino likes this.
  24. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,878
    9,663
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Raccoon City

    And for some reason, none of this bothers me.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  25. clrockny24

    clrockny24 New Member

    5
    4
    3
    Dec 6, 2017
    Anyone see the game yesterday?

    Apparently, there were people betting on the Chargers. I wondered if that was out of pure hatred for the pats, or if they really thought the Chargers would win. I kind of thought they'd put up a bigger fight, but I can't say I was surprised when I turned on the game and saw it was 28-7.

    The Patriots would be looking at another Super Bowl appearance if this was at home, but the fact that this is on the road gives KC a chance. This could end up like the game earlier this season where the Chiefs go up late, but leave too much time for Brady to come back.

    I would have loved to see the pats lose yesterday, but I knew it wasn't going to happen. Even if they had lost, they are far from being done, and I think Brady wants to play until after 2020. They'll always be a threat as long as they have him and Belichick.
     
  26. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

    137
    117
    43
    Sep 1, 2012
    And just watch them go from Tom Brady to their next franchise quarterback like the 49ers did with Montana to Young or the Colts when they went from Peyton to Luck, and start another dynasty... :no:
     
  27. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    As long as BB is their coach and Ernie Adams is playing Rainman in the booth they will be a dynasty. Nearly any starting QB in the league would play well on the Pats.

    I mentioned before the season, in this thread, that KC is one team that has shown they can beat the Pats. Especially in KC. I pray they make that statement true this weekend.
     
  28. clrockny24

    clrockny24 New Member

    5
    4
    3
    Dec 6, 2017
    I do think they would be fine if they still had belichick, but not Brady. If they had Brian Hoyer as a starter, I think they would still be good, simply because of Belichick. I always find the question, "who is more responsible for the Patriots success, Brady or Belichick?" interesting. I think it is Belichick. Where would Tom Brady be without belichick? but where would belichick be without Brady? good arguments can be made for both. I do think if you put brady on a team with a terrible coaching staff, he might not have as much success.

    Win or lose, I don't see them going anywhere next year. They will probably be a super bowl favorite for as long as they have brady and belichick. I've been hearing that they have twelve draft picks this year, with six in the first three rounds, so they will load up on young talent and be a threat for a long time.
     
  29. schisno

    schisno Well-Known Member

    2,965
    1,765
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    Could BB have won with Curtis Painter?
     
  30. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,116
    7,009
    113
    May 7, 2008
    New Orleans
    Aaaaand another super bowl victory.
     
    McLovin likes this.
  31. schisno

    schisno Well-Known Member

    2,965
    1,765
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    Like Max Kellerman, you'll be right eventually.

    It can't last forever.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    92,667
    45,149
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    It didn’t matter, the guy is a machine..
     
  33. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

    19,870
    22,774
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    NC
    I feel like we should Nuke this thread. It's cursed.
     
    Silverphin likes this.
  34. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,963
    9,568
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page