Newton atop Dolphins draft board?

Would love to see Newton in a Dolphin's uniform. Well worth the 15th pick in the draft.

"KB21 wrote:

Cam's ceiling is limited because of his lack of mental prep for the position of quarterback. The guy doesn't know the difference between a cover 2 and a cover 3 defense. When the heat is on and that first option isn't open, he is going to panic and start breaking out of the pocket whether he is getting pressure or not. He doesn't have the instincts to be a passer, and you can't coach that into a player.

Peyton Manning came into the league knowing how to read coverages and go through progressions. He had the mental part down from the very beginning. He was born with it. Cam Newton was born an athlete, and due to the laziness of high school and college coaches, he got put at the quarterback position.

It's awesome you got to sit down and break down film with him to find that out, any video of it?

Those stupid championship winning high school and college coaches it's their fault they didn't change the position of a guy that most likely will be drafted in the 1st round as a Quarterback.

"KB21 wrote:

There is no difference between the two. You might get a double digit wunderlich score if you put both of them together. Of course, Cam would need someone to cheat off of to do it though.

That would be pretty neat, I'll bet you a million dollars that when it's all said and done their scores do add up to greater than 10. It's weird that you bring it up because the last time we drafted a 1st round QB he scored the same as Vince Young on that particular test.

"uab_phin wrote:

That would be pretty neat, I'll bet you a million dollars that when it's all said and done their scores do add up to greater than 10. It's weird that you bring it up because the last time we drafted a 1st round QB he scored the same as Vince Young on that particular test.

Vince Young scored a 6 on the wonderlich. A 6. Dan Marino didn't score a 6. He scored a 16.

"KB21 wrote:

Vince Young scored a 6 on the wonderlich. A 6. Dan Marino didn't score a 6. He scored a 16.

I beg you to PLEASE!! show me where on wikipedia you found that.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/special_reports&id=7447191

I found this and posted it about a month ago.

"uab_phin wrote:

I beg you to PLEASE!! show me where on wikipedia you found that.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/special_reports&id=7447191

I found this and posted it about a month ago.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-young-wonderlic_x.htm

"KB21 wrote:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-young-wonderlic_x.htm

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html

On Sunday, the combine said the test score of 6 that was being reported by some media outlets was false.
"I've been told it was inaccurate by a source good enough for me to quote it," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said Sunday afternoon.
Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.

Not trying to be rude, but you're calling people out about lying...

Lol..Wow! Well, with all these other teams thinking so much of
him we can stop with the talk of drafting him since he won't be there
when we draft, thank god.

"Garryowen wrote:

Lol..Wow! Well, with all these other teams thinking so much of
him we can stop with the talk of drafting him since he won't be there
when we draft, thank god.

I know right. I was scared we would miss another exciting season of checkdowns and open WR's getting missed by like 10 yards. Safe for another year!

Now, lets go get us another defensive lineman, who's with me!

"KB21 wrote:

Vince Young scored a 6 on the wonderlich. A 6. Dan Marino didn't score a 6. He scored a 16.

I think it was wrongly reported that VY scored a 6. NFL people later confirmed that he actually scored a 16. And Marino...I believe his score was 14...not 16. Don't "accidently" skew the facts now to appease your own argument...

"ASUFinFan wrote:

I think it was wrongly reported that VY scored a 6. NFL people later confirmed that he actually scored a 16. And Marino...I believe his score was 14...not 16. Don't "accidently" skew the facts now to appease your own argument...

Err bro, I'm a Young proponent, but he did score a 6, then took a makeup wonderlic and managed the 16(?)

Which is not terrible, however he also may have been spoonfed the answers.

I hold no illusions about Vince Young's capacities, they come with the package.

The real key to Vince Young, to me is:

-19 games in the last 3 seasons
-He has always wanted to play, the blowup with Fisher last season was over Fisher pulling him and not allowing him to go back into the game against us, to me the lazy/satisfied player would have been more than happy to sit on the sidelines with torn cartilage in his thumb, Young didn't, he wanted to play.

I read that as Fisher did not like Young anyway, so it was as good of an excuse as any to sit him out, Young knew this and got pissed and tossed his upper pads and jersey into the stands, argued with Fisher and left, perhaps he knew when Fisher would not put him back into the game and with his thumb injury he was done in TN?

That is a part of the reasons why I have not written him off anyway.

"schmolioot wrote:

How did they dismantle their franchise?

They won plenty of games during Young's tenure.

And I hate to break it to you but Cam Newton is in fact a completely different person than Vince Young.

hes worse

The same way we tend to compare white WRs to other white WRs, and white RBs to other white RBs; we tend to compare black QBs to other black QBs. So Cam Newton will be compared to Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, Pat White, Mike Vick, etc. Just like so many insisted on this board that Brian Hartline reminded them of Ed McCaffery or Steve Tasker.

I'm sure there are some similarities. They are all athletic QBs. But it's still a mistake to judge one guy based on what another did in the NFL based on skin color.

KB21,

I try really hard not to notice trends in your QB analysis, but at this point, I have to ask: Has there ever been a black QB you've liked?

"uab_phin wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html

Not trying to be rude, but you're calling people out about lying...

When the report leaked about Vince making a 6, the media had to come up with something to spin it to where the report was false. The media couldn't have their great black hope being portrayed as a dummy.

"ASUFinFan wrote:

I think it was wrongly reported that VY scored a 6. NFL people later confirmed that he actually scored a 16. And Marino...I believe his score was 14...not 16. Don't "accidently" skew the facts now to appease your own argument...

It wasn't wrongly reported. I wonder if Vince's make up test was an untimed test similar to the untimed ACT tests that certain schools get athletes to take who are too stupid to tie their own shoes, a la Jerrell Powe.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

The same way we tend to compare white WRs to other white WRs, and white RBs to other white RBs; we tend to compare black QBs to other black QBs. So Cam Newton will be compared to Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, Pat White, Mike Vick, etc. Just like so many insisted on this board that Brian Hartline reminded them of Ed McCaffery or Steve Tasker.

I'm sure there are some similarities. They are all athletic QBs. But it's still a mistake to judge one guy based on what another did in the NFL based on skin color.

KB21,

I try really hard not to notice trends in your QB analysis, but at this point, I have to ask: Has there ever been a black QB you've liked?

Warren Moon.

"texanphinatic wrote:

I know right. I was scared we would miss another exciting season of checkdowns and open WR's getting missed by like 10 yards. Safe for another year!

Now, lets go get us another defensive lineman, who's with me!

Either way, with or without him we're going to have that...Unless you think
he's going to come in and dominate right away....But again, since he's
#1 on so many teams draft boards, he won't be there.

(BTW..That's sarcasm because it's all a bunch of smoke.)

"KB21 wrote:

When the report leaked about Vince making a 6, the media had to come up with something to spin it to where the report was false. The media couldn't have their great black hope being portrayed as a dummy.

It wasn't wrongly reported. I wonder if Vince's make up test was an untimed test similar to the untimed ACT tests that certain schools get athletes to take who are too stupid to tie their own shoes, a la Jerrell Powe.

Warren Moon.

You have to understand why this makes you look a bit unreasonable. Rather than simply accepting the fact that his score was higher than the first link you clicked on after a google search orginally suggested you decide to make up a conspiracy theory. I mean the simple fact that his score was leaked so early with no other scores being leaked should suggest to you that whoever was moderating the test for him probably wanted him to do badly and may have messed with his test.

"uab_phin wrote:

You have to understand why this makes you look a bit unreasonable. Rather than simply accepting the fact that his score was higher than the first link you clicked on after a google search orginally suggested you decide to make up a conspiracy theory. I mean the simple fact that his score was leaked so early with no other scores being leaked should suggest to you that whoever was moderating the test for him probably wanted him to do badly and may have messed with his test.

Oh, that moderator must have been a racist.

And the reason Vince Young has been a failure as a QB in the NFL - he's too damn stupid to be an NFL QB.

"KB21 wrote:

Oh, that moderator must have been a racist.

And the reason Vince Young has been a failure as a QB in the NFL - he's too damn stupid to be an NFL QB.

...I would lean more towards his suicidal tendencies and immaturity, especially considering his 26 - 13 record as a QB, while I understand people hate when record is used to assess how good a QB is, certainly it can be used to assess whether or not they are a failure on the field. I wouldn't want Vince Young here because he's not a leader and just seems very immature, but you have to admit that Cam Newton has already dealt with more controversy in college than Young had to at Texas. Regardless of whether or not Newton brought the controversy onto himself the fact that Newton continued to play at a high level through it all shows a difference between he and Young. The first time Vince Young ran into any resistance at the NFL he folded.

"KB21 wrote:

There is no difference between the two. You might get a double digit wunderlich score if you put both of them together. Of course, Cam would need someone to cheat off of to do it though.

Oh, the irony!

Funny how it's not racist to use any of the words like "lacks football IQ" or "Lacks work ethic"
for white QBs, but it is to use it for black QBs.

From what I understand Cam may or may not have "football IQ" and it's reasonable to question it
since in Auburns system he wasn't asked to make any intricate pre snap reads. He also
got his keys sent in from the sideline. He's played predominatnly shotgun, so his ability
to see the field in a pro style set is questioned. His character issues are already well
documented, so I don't think it's racist to question any of these things.

Now....Where I think there's a difference is just in the "sniff" test. Cam speaks like
he's got a brain in his head, and, you can tell he's reasonably intelligent, unlike say
Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell who have difficulty there.

Really, he can make all the throws, but he's got lots of info to jam into his
medulla oblongata to succeed in the pros, and, I don't think it's unreasonable
to question if he can do it.

Well, Cam Newton would bring excitement to the fans initially. He has a TON of potential, but he also has a very long way to go to be NFL ready.
If we draft him, and this team starts off mediocre again, you know what will happen. Tony will be forced to put Cam Newton in before he's ready and essentially will ruin Cam's career as Tony and co get booted at the end of the season.
if we had the Falcons or Jets offenses and put Cam Newton in, I'd feel very different. The pieces are in place for him to be successful with some franchises. That is clearly not the case here: suspect Oline (interior), sub-average running game, no burner WRs to keep the defense honest, no stud receiving TE.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

Well, Cam Newton would bring excitement to the fans initially. He has a TON of potential, but he also has a very long way to go to be NFL ready.
If we draft him, and this team starts off mediocre again, you know what will happen. Tony will be forced to put Cam Newton in before he's ready and essentially will ruin Cam's career as Tony and co get booted at the end of the season.
if we had the Falcons or Jets offenses and put Cam Newton in, I'd feel very different. The pieces are in place for him to be successful with some franchises. That is clearly not the case here: suspect Oline (interior), sub-average running game, no burner WRs to keep the defense honest, no stud receiving TE.

Great post. I bolded the points that I thought made the most sense as to why I think we should not even consider drafting him at #15. In fact, I'll go on record as saying I think we need to trade down (assuming of course a trade partner can be secured), thereby reacquiring our second round pick. Then, draft BPA with an emphasis on offense with a late first pick, and again in the second, and third round. QB, speed WR, and play making TE would all be very high on my list (and, not necessarily in that order).

JMHO...

"uab_phin wrote:

You have to understand why this makes you look a bit unreasonable. Rather than simply accepting the fact that his score was higher than the first link you clicked on after a google search orginally suggested you decide to make up a conspiracy theory. I mean the simple fact that his score was leaked so early with no other scores being leaked should suggest to you that whoever was moderating the test for him probably wanted him to do badly and may have messed with his test.

Actually it was a conspiracy. The general opinion back then was that he was allowed to do a second Wonderlich. Also his score wasn't the only one leaked back then...it was just the 'juiciest' so people focused on it.

"Garryowen wrote:

Funny how it's not racist to use any of the words like "lacks football IQ" or "Lacks work ethic"
for white QBs, but it is to use it for black QBs.

From what I understand Cam may or may not have "football IQ" and it's reasonable to question it
since in Auburns system he wasn't asked to make any intricate pre snap reads. He also
got his keys sent in from the sideline. He's played predominatnly shotgun, so his ability
to see the field in a pro style set is questioned. His character issues are already well
documented, so I don't think it's racist to question any of these things.

Now....Where I think there's a difference is just in the "sniff" test. Cam speaks like
he's got a brain in his head, and, you can tell he's reasonably intelligent, unlike say
Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell who have difficulty there.

Really, he can make all the throws, but he's got lots of info to jam into his
medulla oblongata to succeed in the pros, and, I don't think it's unreasonable
to question if he can do it.

This is the first reasonably thought out and stated version of why it would make sense to question Cam Newton's mental readiness in the NFL. Thank you for this. I don't think it's unreasonable to bring up character questions for any players in the draft, but like you said drafting Cam Newton would not be the equivalent of drafting Vince Young because they just have such different paths that got them to where they are. I personally am MUCH more concerned when I listen to Ryan Mallett speak then when I listen to Cam Newton. Jake Locker's lack of growth as a passer is also a bigger concern for me, I think that it's odd that people are not considering him a run first QB considering he's extremely athletic and is a less accomplished passer than Newton.

"VanDolPhan wrote:

Actually it was a conspiracy. The general opinion back then was that he was allowed to do a second Wonderlich. Also his score wasn't the only one leaked back then...it was just the 'juiciest' so people focused on it.

I stand corrected, but regardless I think it's lazy to simply decide that the NFL let him take it again because they wanted him to succeed or to decide that just because Vince Young had a discounted score that his other one doesn't count. And if you are willing to look past the first one, without assuming conspiracy, than depending on the report Vince Young's wonderlic score ends up either the same as or right around our favorite QB's score.