NFL.com's Greg Rosenthall has RT17 ranked #25 QB in NFL

im not sure what this means but brady has 32 rushes on the season...all of those are unscripted..ryan has maybe 3 unscripted....weird no? does that tell you anything instinctually?

 

Where do you get these stats?

Regardless, without seeing the runs, it tells me nothing. When I've seen Brady run, it's when they rush a few, and the oline holds the rushers off, and Brady runs cause it's wide open, and everyone is covered.

 

Yeah, not sure if all 32 runs are unscripted dj. Here are Brady's stats:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

Add up all rush attempts and they are 32 as you say. However, note that against Buffalo in the second game he had 3 rush attempts for -4 yards total. I doubt those are all examples of "unscripted runs".

Anyway, I agree with resnor on the observation about when Brady takes off. He usually has a pretty wide field open up in front of him.

 

I know you didn't make this evaluation on one game. You've been on it all year, and even last year IIRC... Like I said, I hear you man. Like I said, I'm not really disagreeing with you.

He's looked strange running this year, like his body movement. Makes me wonder if he's got an injury he's dealing with that's restricting his mobility too.

Like I said, I get what you're saying though.

 

It isn't hard to come to the conclusion that we have a subpar QB playing under subpar conditions.

Jax, Cle, Buff, Minn, Sea, Tenn, KC and SF all allow more sacks than Miami per pass attempt, here are the passer ratings of those teams QB's and their exact ranking in regards to pass protection.

Sea 111.1 (29th)
Buff 97.1 (27th)
K.C. 96.9 (30th)
Cle 89.7 (26th)
Minn 89.5 (28th)
Tenn 89.0 (31st)
Jax 87.9 (25th)
Mia 87.5 (24th)
SF 80.5 (32nd)

What does this tell you? That they must have good OC's? No. It tells you that while Ryan isn't the worst QB in this group, he is the worst at HANDLING the pressure. Sucks to be us, huh. Worst of both worlds.

We are in a crappy situation offensively, we have a BAD OL and a QB that is as bad as it gets at handling it.

 

You are way off on this. I would say even gone over the edge.

The Patriots line has been an absolute disaster this year. I recall one game (might have been against us) the Pats only had 6 active OL on gameday they were so depleted.

Earlier in the year it was posted that Brady gets rid of the ball 2.1 seconds on average. Fastest in the league. They were arguing b/c Brady lacked pocket presence (LOL). They were dead wrong. It is b/c the OL in NE is a disaster between youth and injuries. Getting rid of the ball quickly is "one" of the ways a QB helps the OL. Another is to get outside of the pocket taking off with ball, hence, Brady having 32 rushes.

Even with Brady quickly getting rid of the ball, far superior pocket presence than Tannehill, willingness to throw the ball away, and taking off when the pocket collapses he has still been hit 84 times (Tannehill, 96 times).

As far as Brady not having to face extra rushers and the OL giving him all day...totally inaccurate:

The line has allowed 77 quarterback hits, per the NFL's official tracker, which ranks in the bottom ten of the league. Pro Football Focus says that the Eagles only set extra rushers on five of the Patriots 62 passing plays, but defensive tackle Fletcher Cox generated a ridiculous 14 pressures on the day.
The Eagles struggled to do much on defense over their prior two games, yet facing the Patriots seemed to be the antidote.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/12/7...-eagles-new-englands-offensive-line-is-broken

Along with missing Gronk and other WRs Pats still able to put up 28 points which would be Miami's 3rd highest output of the season.

 

How is none of that relevant? He's so much better at dealing with pressure it's ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Cute is it? Any hope on you practicing what you preach Mr mod?

How about this, why don't you just refute what I said, which was COLLEGE QB.


Tanne____college__________Att__Comp_C%__Yards__Y/A_AY/A_TD_INT_ rating
[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table"]
[TR="class: bold_text stat_total, bgcolor: #DADCDE"]
[TD="align: right"]Career[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Texas A&M[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]484[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]774[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]62.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5450[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]134.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



Johnson
[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table"]
[TR="class: bold_text stat_total, bgcolor: #DADCDE"]
[TD="align: right"]Career[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Texas A&M[/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]650[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1109[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8011[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]67[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]134.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

WADR, your opinion of what it takes is based on what other QBs have done though and no QB has been neutered like Tannehill and thrived.

 

Isolate the pass plays where the QB is pressured, measure the time from snap to pressure. Note the down/distance and game situation. Is there an escape route or open receiver? Is the pressure due to a bad protection call, missed block, etc. That's how you evaluate how a QB handle pressure.

These stats do nothing for anyone anyone who wasn't already convinced. Nice try though.

 

And again, I'm not sure why this always gets ignored but what kind of pressure is it....1 guy? full pocket collapse?

 

So, I was inaccurate about not using extra blitzers? No, I wasn't. Also, 14 may be ridiculous, but so what? You want Tannehill throwing it quickly? Fine by me. Last season and the season before, Tannehill was getting rid of the ball among the quickest in the league. People complained that he didn't throw deep enough, and that his ypa was low. You can't throw in 2 seconds or less AND expect to have a higher ypa, unless you have receivers who are adept at running crisp routes, and breaking tackles and getting YAC. Brady always has those sort receivers.

Whatever, you can believe whatever you want, based in whatever stat you want.

For the record, I wasn't simply referring to Brady this season, either. I do believe that the Patriots coaches are far superior, and, backups or not, I don't see the subs for the Patriots being turnstiles like Thomas, and they aren't racking up penalties.

 

I had no intention on these stats changing any minds, if you are a Ryan apologist you are just a Ryan apologist and thats the way it is. And I'm not the one claiming Ryan is a victim of a poor OL....you guys are. But it doesn't take a great football mind to know that we have a bad OL, and you are really going to challenge that Ryan isn't bad under pressure? Really?

Walt Disney around this mofo.

 

The other thing, Wilson, Taylor, and Smith have much better ratings than Tannehill. The other 5 are basically the same. Tannehill cannot escape pressure like Taylor and Wilson. Smith, who he's very similar to, has an advantage in experience.

 

It gets ignored because it isn't a stat we can find easily, I'll gladly do the leg work just point me in the right direction.

He asked for down and distance, I provided a stat showing Ryan is actually a better rated QB on 3rd and 8 or more than 3rd and short....."is there an escape route or bad protection call"?? Not something that us laymens can really answer. "missed block"? I'm guessing that someone missed a block if the QB is pressured.

Sounds like the lengths one must go to, to prove a simple theory is have and direct the game tape of every other QB and situation. Pretty unreasonable if you ask me.

 

If Ryan can not escape pressure as well as these guys (and he can't) then those other teams must have a heck of a lot worse OL's then we do considering that as good as they are at escaping they still take more sacks per pass attempt.

Are the stats skewed? They rarely are not, but I don't think I'm being unfair by stating and showing Ryan struggles at handling pressure.

 

It may be unreasonable, but that could just because he's the most handicapped QB in recent memory.

 

I will not challenge that opinion, but I agree he is handicapped.

 

Funny. The most handicapped outside of his control.

 

I do practice what I preach buddy. Look at your own stats. One player has a completion percentage 4 points higher. But it's so much more then stats.

If you're measuring them on their success in college then you take note of their attributes right? One guy had "The worst arm strength in the East West Shrine game". He wasn't as accurate. He displayed neither the footwork nor the leadership to get drafted. And when he signed as a udfa he couldn't stick. So your point is that you don't look at the qualities the player has just the stats.

 

You guys want to find the real victim of his surroundings? Look no farther than Lamar Miller, that is the guy who should be a star in this league IF......

 

Great post. That's the problem with Tannehill, written as well as I've seen it done anywhere.

The only thing we perhaps disagree on is the extent to which team flaws are exacerbating the problem. Lack of balance, bad OL, too many pass attempts, etc. Instead of hiding the guy's weaknesses this staff seems hell bent on exposing them. Throw in a wildly inconsistent defense and it's a bad bad situation.

I said before the season for the offense to produce it had to be 30-35 runs and 30-35 passes. High tempo. Balance, not just run-pass but in the types of runs and passes. Deep, intermediate, short, play action passes. Zone, counter, traps, wham, iso, in the run game. Nothing even close to this happened. It's been the same ish for the most part week after week and when your talent isn't great scheme has to compensate. Again, not even close.

 

Agreed, he's tragically under utilized.

Hmmmm......I wonder if I've brought up how bad misused the running game is?

 

What I'm challenging is your methodology in properly assessing who is and isn't dealing with pressure well. Funny you bring up Disney because a small child could throw a few numbers together like u just did. But what we are trying to have here is a grownup discussion.

 

I think I just realized the problem.

You, me and a few others are trying to get Club Level discussion from Mains level analysis.

That makes us pretty stupid.

 

I really should cough up the money for Club Level.

 

It's ignored because there's no stat for it. Gotta watch the film to find out for sure. Instead we get a bunch of YPA, QBR, numbers that supposedly tell the story.

Just once I'd like to see a QB come to the sideline after a drive and his OC say "well your QBR was really good on that drive, keep up the good work" or "your YPA fell to 23rd on that drive, time to step it up". It'd be the first time ever.

 

We are? If so why not tell me your take on how he handles pressure instead of telling me my post "means nothing"?

It was an example of how IMO Ryan struggles more than others with pressure, Resor is correct in why aswell...he doesn't have the agility of Tyrod or Wilson nor the smarts of an Alex Smith. So why not explain why you disagree that Ryan struggles under pressure, especially when a few posts up you call his surroundings (and rightfully so) a culprit in his overall struggles.

 

Me too. I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.

 

I have been the 1st to point out that stats are flawed and skewed, I watch the games.....that how I evaluate. But carry on.

 

Youre right and I aplogize if I offended you, that's not my intention. Thanks for posting those numbers, even if I disagree it's a valuable addition to the thread.

My take on Tannehill dealing with pressure is that's he's middle of the pack. He takes too many sacks by not reacting in time. He lacks the quickness to dodge rushers who come in unexpectedly. I think he some he makes up for that somewhat by not panicking and throwing picks the way many QBs do under pressure. You rarely see his mechanics break down the way you'll see with a Stafford or Cutler type.

Those are some quick thoughts. I want to take time and really break the film down before I go into a ton of detail. Right now it's hard because like you I'm frustrated as hell with how the season has gone.

And don't mind me, I can get snarky on occasion but like I told DJ you're a good poster who I have a lot of respect for, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

 

two part question..are you willing to build your team around these deficiencies?... And will you avoid a qb in the draft that you really like?

 

You didn't ask me but I'll answer with my opinion.

Part 1:
Yes. I've seen Tannehill play at a top level with just an average oline over a 6 game stretch. That's more a guarantee than any potential QB in this draft. Plus, we're talking about fixing the oline and getting a competent coaching staff...that's a great idea no matter who your QB is.

Part 2:
Yes, but not a high pick.

 

Yeah, and Charlie Ward was drafted by the Knicks, despite being a Heisman winner, pro has nothing to do with college, so enough with you dragging pro crap into a discussion about college, and with his horrible arm strength he had a WAY better TD/INT ratio, and nothing you said has refuted my comment that Johnson was just as good or better than Tanne in college.

Maybe some more "cute" comments aught to do it.

 

DJ, you didn't ask me, but yes, I would try to build around Tannehill, if only because putting the right pieces in will benefit the QB who replaces Tannehill, if he's gone. And yeah, I would avoid a high pick on a QB, being that we need the at least three starting olinemen, at least one corner, at least one linebacker, maybe a defensive end.

We have so many holes, I don't know if I could stomach a high pick on a QB.

But maybe we get a QB in the first round that can work without an oline. I guess in that scenario, I take him, then use the rest of my picks on defense.

 

im not sure that sample size projects well on the road, in the playoffs, in hostile environments...playmaking ability becomes essential in those situations..

 

Again, its more of a sample size then any rookie you're getting in the draft.

 

Um, no.

Miller and his inability to handle a bigger workload is a main cause for why Tannehill is throwing 40 times a game.

 

Everything I said refuted your points. You just aren't reading or comprehending what I'm posting....maybe both. Every time you post stuff like you posted above you keep proving my point that you only care about stats not attributes of the players or results of games. I posted before that Tannehill had a 4 point higher completion percentage. They had the same passer rating. Johnson actually lost the starting position in 2010 after the Kansas game...to Tannehill who had been playing wr all year. Stats are nice...watch the games buddy. Your boy was recruited as a zone read qb and he struggled too much with accuracy to even hold a college job. I feel like I'm being pranked right now that someone would argue this.

I offered up what pro scouts said about him only because this the stuff that cost him games in college and eventually cost him his starting job.

 

You don't know what you're missing