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No Contract Extension for Tua Yet

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by resnor, Sep 1, 2023.

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  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    We love arguing with you Resnor. Keep being you.
     
    resnor likes this.
  3. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Well its unfortunate you don't have the ability to talk about Tua beyond your need to be right about him
     
  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Geez another Tua sucks, Tua is injury prone, Tua has a weak arm. The three horsemen of Tua isn’t chit is so pathetic.
     
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  5. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I kind of feel sorry for resnor, this has clearly taken a toll on him.
     
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  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The constant need for him to be right and acknowledged as so, is really affecting him negatively.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    *Hugs*
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That was absolutely not the point of the post, and you know it.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Pot, meet kettle.

    Again, I simply posted a national story. My point was not abut whether Tua sucks or not (I don't believe he sucks). My point was that the team is not convinced he's a long term solution, yet you guys have, and continue to, mock me for holding that very same position.

    The reality is, you guys actually agree that he may not be three answer, judging from comments earlier in this thread, yet you're so entrenched in maintaining my idiocy, that you are just gaslighting now.
     
  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Except I didn't mock you I asked for an explanation for why you think this is so concerning beyond what we already know. My issue isn't really about the story its about why you want to blow it up into something more and why you are annoyed that more people aren't doing the same. We know injuries are a concern but we already did. We know the front office has concerns but we already did.

    Other than a couple people that didn't want them to pick up his 5th year is there anyone here that doesn't think the right move was to see how it goes this season before potentially committing themselves for the long haul? Is there anyone that didn't think that is how they were going to play it?

    And yeah you continue to not want to discuss the story at all and do seem to just want to say "haha I was right!"
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Gaslighting. I'm referencing three years of posts, not simply this thread. Funny, I don't reevaluate you ever posting in my Positive Tua thread, other than mariner accusing me of trolling.

    What are your thoughts on the trade for Stafford rumors.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Interesting also it's ME that doesn't want to discuss the story, as opposed to you guys who only wanted to come in and again accuse me of trolling, and act like I'm an idiot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2023
  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You lashed out just by people saying they didn't think this was much of a story. What is the big deal about that? I didn't accuse you of trolling so what does that have to do with me?

    There is no Stafford rumor it was just ESPN talking heads saying the Dolphins should trade for him.

    I tried to discuss it and you wouldn't
     
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  14. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    As usual, zero content in your post, and just an attack because you are unable to converse intellectually.
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Alright, I didn't see this as you trying to discuss the story. It kinda looked to me like you wanted to get into a discussion about injury or injury prone, etc. You don't seem concerned by the situation, which I find astonishing. Here's why:

    1. Going into his fourth season, the #5, that we have up so much for, it's still making rookie mistakes. You guys BLASTED Tannehill for every interception, but Tua throws some absolutely awful ones

    2. Going into his fourth season, there was talk from the coaches that he might not play AT ALL in the preseason, due to fear of injury.

    So, to me, is it completely unreasonable that Miami is actually considering moving on from Tua, regardless of what occurs this season, but they aren't going to say that or try to indicate that, because they're thinking Tua is going to have trade value after the season? Can you honestly say that, even IF Tua stays healthy this season and plays well, that you are comfortable investing a ****ton of money into him long term? Just honest questions, I'm not trying to say any of this is true, but it's a decent hypothetical.

    My opinion: if Tua misses 3 or fewer games this season, then I say offer hon a long term contract, but it's got be extremely heavy on the incentives and low on guaranteed money. I don't know if Tua would ever agree to that though. I just don't think he's as stable a risk long term as other QBs, and that is if I consider him to be borderline elite.
     
  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    OMG he brought up the little game segment they played on an obscure ESPN morning show as a legitimate rumor that Stafford is going to be traded to Miami.
     
  17. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Him not playing in the preseason because of injury is essentially just a fan created theory. McDaniel said he expected him to play and far as I know that is the extent of any talk. McDaniel ended up playing him the exact same amount and in the same way as last year. Just because some people thought they might not play him or maybe didn't want them to shouldn't mean anything in terms of what the team intended.

    Tua is almost certainly still the QB unless there is a serious injury that puts his playing status next year in some kind of doubt because they are way to deep in win now and I can't think of any trade candidate that could make any sense unless they want Kyler Murray.
     
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  18. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    The concern is the concussions. They just happened last season. I have no doubt that if Tua had finished #1 in all of those statistical categories and played all 18 games, he would already be under contract.
     
  19. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    This is where you get rightfully laughed at..... HE LED THE GOD DAMNED LEAGUE IN PASSING EFFICIENCY. Give it a rest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2023
  20. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    Some guys just can't wait for Tua to make a mistake for the sake of being right. Nobody made more "rookie mistakes" last year than the great Josh Allen. The only concern anyone should have with Tua at this point is his health.
     
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  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    100% correct.

    He has claimed to be only concerned about Tua's health many times, only to bring up other stuff again, and again, and again.......
     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Injury is a concern, and maybe it shouldn't be a bigger concern than any other QB, but right now it is. Both sides want Tua to prove it and there's nothing wrong with that. It's really not a headline story like some make it to be.

    Likewise, almost every talking head said that they really like the Dolphins...but they picked the Bills or the Jets because they're unsure if Tua can stay healthy. None of them questioned his talent, his toughness, etc. If Tua's on the field, it's going to be a great season. Without Tua....who knows?!? If I wasn't a Miami fan, I personally wouldn't pick the Dolphins either.

    That doesn't change the fact though that Burrow, Mahommes, Jackson, or Allen are just as likely to suffer a concussion as Tua.
     
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t preseason where you want the mistakes to be made…so they aren’t repeated during the regular season?

    And Tuanon is absolutely right about Josh Allen. His overall performance has steadily declined, particularly against the Dolphins.

    I’m truly not worried about any AFC East team this season.
     
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  24. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's unreasonable the Dolphins aren't sold and are considering moving on. He's probably one more concussion away from being unclearable from doctors despite if Tua wants to keep going or not. The rigors of playing a whole season. Playing through the bumps and playing well through them, defenses learning the scheme, not skipping great defenses is something I'm sure the organization wants to see prior to committing massive dollars.

    Now, if he stays healthy AND gives you production a whole season, would I feel confident it's repeatable for a massive long term deal? Probably not. That would be an outlier in his career. Bad idea to base contracts on outliers. I'd let him repeat it in 2025 season, and then go from there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2023
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  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Some Dolfans would go radio silent if we won a Super Bowl with Tua as MVP in the game. They'd rather win a tight game on a last second pick six after Tua went 12-25 with three picks and a fumble. The best of both worlds.
     
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  26. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You're not lying
     
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  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You know, they say it takes 10 “attaboys” to get rid of 1 “ah sh!t”…and sadly we have way too many people here that focus on the “ah sh!ts” rather than the “attaboys”.

    So what are some of Tua’s “attaboys”?

    Pre snap reads. I genuinely believe Tua has a wonderful ability to read defenses prior to the snap. We’ve seen too many times he knows where he’s going to throw the ball.

    Decisiveness. Tua is decisive and doesn’t hesitate. He’s quick in his decision and doesn’t hesitate in his throws.

    Anticipation. This goes hand in hand with his pre snap reads and decisiveness. It’s almost as if he has a premonition on who’s going to be where.

    Accuracy. Enough said!

    There’s plenty of attaboys but sadly there are those who’ll only focus on the ah sh!ts
     
  28. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I used to manage a warehouse on second shift. Half the night, we'd be catching up from challenges that first shift left for us before soldiering through and managing to accomplish our goals (usually 5 minutes before quitting time). Every day at shift change, my boss would tell me how poorly I set up first shift and since he wasn't around for me to complain to when I had my challenges, he assumed first shift was doing much better than they were.

    I told him that working on second shift was like being put into a huge room with 10,000 jacks on the floor. The job was to put on boxing gloves and pick up all of the jacks by the end of the shift. For as difficult as that may sound, somebody might have a great night and be able to pick up 9,850 jacks in 8 hours. When first shift comes in every day, they look at 150 jacks that are here and there on the floor and run to the boss asking "WTF does second shift even do at night?". Regardless of metrics and actual performance, they only saw what we didn't do/did wrong.

    That's how Tua's detractors see him. Dude led the league in YPA - one of the most important metrics for high-level QB play - and we get threads saying he doesn't make his reads. How much higher would his YPA be if he did? Two seasons ago, he had a sieve for an OL and was constantly rushed. He was averaging a 71% completion rate late in the season and they complained about his low YPA, even though quick passes were all he had time to complete.

    Some of them are sincere in their criticism, which is why I don't argue with them anymore. But some are obviously only trying to kick up dust. They're finding it more difficult to find the ah ****s and suggesting that the lack of an extension shows the team has no faith in him is a shiny object over there to keep the brouhaha going.
     
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  29. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Add to that the fact that he led the league in passer rating too...... That is just not that common.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Especially in Miami since Marino. After he played well, they switched on us from "Tua's not the guy" to "Tua's not the guy we want".
     
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  31. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Not to mention there's some here that would rather see THEIR team win than OUR Dolphins. They know who they are. ( as a lot of us know also).
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yessir
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Listen...if the Dolphins had no concerns then they would give Tua whatever he wants, and not have this hanging over the season. It's really that simple.

    The only reason to not have this done months ago is if you have questions and concerns.
     
  34. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of the things you name are just results of the scheme. Tua has admitted he can't see over the line AND is no looking throws into holes. Everything is pretty much planned. Balls go to places whether the receiver is there or not. That's not decisiveness or anticipation. That's a great scheme. That's why things were such a struggle as they bumped defenders at the line and started putting defenders into his favorite hole (middle of the field).

    Now it'll be on McDaniel to come up with a counter as the league has the playbook. He's had plenty of time for it. He's a good football mind, so I'm sure he's come up with something. I would imagine it will look different from last year's offense. Just read they had receivers practicing getting bumped at the line, so it's clearly something on their mind. Good sign.
     
  35. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing is hanging over the season. Everybody understands Tua's health is a question mark. They have him locked in for two seasons and he understands why. He's not complaining and there's absolutely no controversy. It's so much of a nothing burger that reporters don't even ask Tua about it.

    Your acting as if it's a concern is odd. Almost like you're just trying to... argue?
     
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  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well, something we can all agree on is it's good football is back. We'll finally get some more data on Tua. I know one key slip-up early in the season is all that's needed for a ton of haters to start posting again (a loss in the opener against Herbert would probably open the floodgates, fair or not), but if this offense ends up top 7-ish this year in points scored or passing efficiency (only possible with Tua playing most games) he's a keeper.

    At least one piece of good news today: '72 Dolphins don't need to worry about KC.
     
  37. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I don't think anyone here is convinced fully that Tua is the long term answer but it seems we fall into 2 groups.

    Group 1 believe if his health stays fine then he is, ability isn't the issue it's all about his health.

    Then we have Group 2 who say roughly the same things but then always add in a caveat that can change from week to week like he's got a noodle arm, or he's not big enough, not fast enough, can't throw it 60 yards downfield while on the run and falling backward, throws into triple coverage too often (with anything to back it up except "gut feel"), leads the league in "almost interceptions" as if that is some kind of meaningful stat, it's all because of Hill and Waddle etc.

    Even if he stays healthy this year and leads the league in passer rating again we will have some of group 2 still posting about his noodle arm, McDaniel's scheme, his WR being the best in the league. Nothing will ever be good enough for them because for some strange reason they feel an overwhelming need to be right about their opinion on him.
     
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  38. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If its simply the scheme than any QB would have similar results in it. But we all know there is a notable drop off when Tua isn't under center. That's because the scheme was designed to take advantage of Tua's strengths which include his ability at pre-snap reads, decisiveness and anticipation.
     
  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Can’t agree with you on this and I’m going to use nothing but facts to illustrate why.

    Now the 2020 season, I’m tossing that season completely out of the window. That was Tua’s rookie season, it was Chan Gailey’s offense that was tailored for Fitzpatrick and the play calling was atrocious. I’m going to use 2021 and 2022 when this was Tua’s team.

    Flores HC
    2021; in 13 games played, Tua attempted 388 passes, completing 263 of those passes for 2653 yards, averaging 6.8 yards, 16 TD and 10 Int with a completion percentage of 67.1 and the Dolphins accumulating a 9/8 record.

    McDaniel HC
    2022; in 13 games played, Tua attempted 400 passes, completing 259 for 3548 yards, averaging 8.9 yards, 25 TD and 5 Int with a completion percentage of 64.8 and the Dolphins accumulated a record of 10-7.

    Those are the facts and this is where the “scheme” opinion falls apart.

    In 13 games in both seasons, Tua threw 12 more passes in 2022 than in 2021 but completed 4 more passes in 2021 than he did in 2022. Statistically all of that is a wash…both seasons were equal in attempts and completions. Tua’s actual “work” was the same.

    Now, here’s where the “scheme” does come into effect. Tua threw for 895 yards more in 2022 than he did in 2021, threw 9 more TD in 2022 than he did in 2021 and threw 5 less interceptions in 2022 than 2021.

    All of THAT is offensive scheme and play calling, which McDaniel brought to the table but Tua’s actual “body of work” in 2022 vs 2021 is identical. So to say that Tua just blindly throws to a spot and can’t see or whatever else just doesn’t hold factual analysis.

    If there had been a significant JUMP in Tua’s actual body of work between the two seasons; a significant JUMP in pass attempts and completions from 2021 to 2022, you might have a logical point to argue but it’s just not there.
     
  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Umm.. you can't infer whether a scheme changed or not just by looking at the number of games started, number of passing attempts and number of completions. It's possible to have dramatic changes in scheme even with all those statistics remaining relatively the same. For example, having a great WR in Hill might allow you to have a similar completion percentage while throwing deeper, more risky passes.

    The strongest argument against scheme and surrounding cast being the primary reason for Tua's success — that is, saying that Tua himself wasn't a major factor — is that it's extremely unlikely for anyone regardless of scheme to end up #1 in key passing stats over a season. Yes, it happens on occasion with otherwise not-so-good QBs, but it's still extremely unlikely. If Tua plays at a high level again this year, then from a pure statistical point of view it becomes highly untenable to suggest he's not a key reason for his success. Larger sample size is all we need. We'll see starting Sunday!
     
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