Every team has weaknesses. Ours got exposed tonight. Hopefully we expose the Ravens' weaknesses next Sunday.

 

We have weaknesses, yes, but jimmy graham and sproles are one of a kind players. It's like they were born to beat us.

 

Just not smart enough on D at this point against the elite qbs

 

Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby weren't going to help us tonight.

 

Tannyhill needs more help even at wr it wouldn't kill us to find more help there too.

 

Tannehill has plenty of receivers. He needs an offensive line and a tight end who can get loose down the seam.

 

I agree with all of this except the Tight End. Clay has done nothing but improve each week and impress me... Last night he saved an interception by going out and catching the ball and holding it with someone draped on him and another db on the ball

But I agree the O Line is the problem, partly blocking and partly our coaches not getting better play calls to get the ball out of his hands earlier or rolling Tanne out

 

Agreed. The two teams left who have those kinds of skill players at both positions are the Pats (Gronk & Vereen) and Bengals (Eifert/Gresham and Gio Bernard). Lucky for us Vereen will miss our first game, and, well, Dalton kinda sucks. We will have to key in on Ray Rice this weekend, imo, can't let him chew up too much yac.

I'm not too hung up on the schematic issues from last night as I do think the Saints are uniquely good at what they do with their two mismatch athletes, an elite QB, and probably the best playcaller/OC in the game. Coyle got taken to school, but I don't see a repeat of last night happening, at least not to that extent.

 

He needs his supposedly #1 explosive WR to, ya know, catch passes and be 60 million dollars worth of explosive.

 

I think Lloyd brings up a great point about how the weaknesses that broke the dam and got us pummeled against the Saints have been present the whole year.

That's a concern. The Dolphins are not showing an ability to self-scout and addresss those weaknesses while winning games. Even though they were able to put together three consecutive victories, it makes you wonder if the coaches will be able to string together victories generally speaking.

The weakness against tight ends has been demonstrable from the start. It's not gotten better. It's only gotten worse. It makes you think they either weren't serious about fixing the problem, or they were wrongheaded in the choices they made to address it.

There's also been a weakness to backs out of the backfield that has been sneaking up on the defense for most of the other games. The Colts exploited it a little. The Falcons exploited it more. The dam broke against the Saints. Either they were not serious in figuring out ways to address that, or they made bad choices in how to do so.

The sacks Tannehill is taking are an issue. It's now 18 in 4 games. That's ludicrous. But what did we hear from the coaches last week? Mike Sherman and Joe Philbin came out with the story that Ryan Tannehill wasn't being hit or pressured a lot, just sacked a lot. To me, that means they may not have actually been all that serious about fixing that problem.

Keep in mind that to me when I talk about a team being "serious" about fixing a problem, I'm referring to them making decisions and adjustments. Adjustments have benefits and costs. Just pounding it into the players' heads that they need to perform better is not necessarily being serious about getting a problem fixed. Making scheme adjustments that have defined costs and defined benefits to me is more the definition of getting serious about fixing a problem. Have they been doing that? Or have they just been satisfied that they're winning so they just need to work with the players on executing better?

 

Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley 4m
On the year, the Dolphins' starting linebackers (Ellerbe, Misi and Wheeler) are a combined -15.6, per @pff. Rest of defense: +19.2.

Our big free agent signings aside from Grimes have so far been busts (Ellerbe, Wheeler, Wallace) or hurt for the season (Keller). And our big draft pick we traded up for hasn't done all that well.

They need to wake up soon or our "race" with the Patriots might not last very long.

 

You are probably right but I personally think that they were better at the LB position for the Dolphins in 2012 than Ellerbe and Wheeler are this year. They aren't as strong against the run and I certainly haven't seen them pressuring the QB anymore than Dansby and Ellerbe did. As far as pass coverage goes, I'll take Dansby and Burnett over Ellerbe and Wheeler any day. While Dansby and Burnett were certainly not great in pass coverage, Ellerbe and Wheeler stink at it.
'

 

So wait, my thread about the 15 points taken from the Falcons game seems to be true AFTER ALL. But i thought it was all BS because we won, therefore the points become invalid.

Guess all my points acme to haunt evryone here who is shocked and crying depressed while I knew this was coming.

What did I say about Shermans play calling last week?
What happened this week? 3rd and centimeters and we give it to the slowest RB in the universe against a very fast defense.
Then bring in #33, (not worth using his name ever again) when we need to gain quick yards to get the momentum off NOs and we go 3 and out.

Or draw up 1 deep ball all game yet NO does 10 alone while up 25 points.
Its amazing how I said signing Wallace would NOT solve our deep game. It would NOT solve what we had with Marshall that everyone was SO EXCITED to exile.

This regime, this ORGANIZATION is a play it safe one ever since Marino left. When you dont trust people you become that way and this team clearly doesn't trust anything and waht do you expect when your GM is what he is, conservative.

We face teams like ATL, NO, and you hear our entire Organization and players say you can't stop them you just have to slow them down, they are amazing yada yada so you would think during the offseason they would look for talent like that because while playing them they see how difficult and dominant they are but instead you get the likes of keller and Gibson. I have nothing else to say.

NO looked, FAST, PHYSICAL, SCARY, CONFIDENT, and damn TALENTED on teh SB level, we looked like we were just happy to be able to compete against them on MNF.

 

I think he meant we need a tight end who is a playmaker like Jordan Cameron, Tony Gonzalez and Vernon Davis, granted these players don't grow on trees, the opportunity to draft the next Jordan Cameron or Dennis Pitta should be a priority in 2014.

 

The reason why they aren't fixing it is because they think its impossible to fix those without better talent, meaning talent is the issue and only way to fix an issue not in the sense you are referring to. Usually people that think that way are the ones that lack imagination, creativity, and insight. I think this staff lacks those 3 hence, "talent" is the problem, in this case, RT17 is at fault or our weak O line is at fault doing bootlegs or roll outs etc isn't a fix to them.

Thats the difference between this team adn teams like Indy or SEA.

 

I don't agree with this at all.

I think it might be the opposite. They have a high enough opinion of the talent that they keep waiting for the players to execute better without adjusting their schemes or philosophies. Making adjustments means a definite cost but a definite benefit. They have their philosophies of how things should be done that they think are the best, and they were afraid of the cost for adjusting them than they were desperate for the benefit. Having a high enough opinion of the talent that you think you can "get it corrected" simply by drilling fundamentals into the players better probably also factors into it.

I don't think coaches think the way you're ascribing onto them, this hopeless "well, the roster's not talented what do you want me to do?" thing. That's not how they're built or programmed.

 

Phillip Wheeler is 10x the pass-rusher that Dansby or Burnett were.

 

You realize that Miami held Graham to a season-low in receptions and yards???

EDIT: thats incorrect, the ATL game was his lowest.

 

If that isn't the cheapest, most misleading point I have heard today then I'm Mickey Mouse.

 

How is it mis-leading? If you told me that you would give up 100 yds receiving to Jimmy Graham, I'd take that every day of the week.

My original point was incorrect though. The Atlanta game saw his lowest numbers of the year. But 100 yds to Jimmy Graham is pretty good IMO.

 

According to who?
Do you really think that these coaches look at the talent on their roster and don't think thats the case at times?
Manchester Uniteds Manager just recently who is in charge of the biggest club/sports team in the world mind you, came out and said his team lacks players to win the Champions League, you need 5-6 world class players to win that tournament.

So you really think coaches don't look at their roster and say this is a **** roster or far less talented? If you do, then I assume you have never been part of a team in any level be it high school, college, or even prior to high school.

During meetings and watching film and spending countless hours together in the same INDUSTRY a lot of things are very very transparent and open.

When a coach says you can't stop them you can slow them down that doesn't mean we have the talent to BE BETTER as long as we force fundamentals down their throat. That means no one has the talent to stop them because those guys are THAT ELITE, all you can do is hope to slow down the damage they will inflict upon you.

Not sure how you take that and turn it into they believe they have the talent to be this or that. I think only 1 man thinks that way and 1 man only, Ireland. Ireland looks at 6'3, 220 lbs, plays WR runs 4.4, in round 6 I can make him into Julio Jones without using a 1st round pick, SAME METRICS and watch me do it because at the end its metrics that you need, the coaching my coach cna provide.

Thats why this team has been deprived of offensive talent under this douche bag.

 

I guess two touchdowns are irrelevant?

A third touchdown surrendered to another tight end is irrelevant to our tight end coverage on the year?

 

because the damage he did with this "only 4" catches and only "100 yards" was immense. oh and "only 2 TDs"

 

I'm wondering if Jim Turner needs to be replaced

 

Yes, not very bad for someone thats well on his way to becoming one of the most prolific TEs in NFL history.

 

Watched the Pats v Falcons game. Watched Gonzalez. He was immense. 17yr vet and he torched the Pats D. I was scratching my head how we contained him to a few catches. Hard to do that against 2 Elite TEs in a week. Something had to give. Thank flip Ravens dont have a TE of those guys quality or a Sproles. We will show up against the Ravens.

 

We have had issues covering TEs for yearrrrrsssss. Also.. IIRC.. Didn't Aaron Rogers take a beating when Sherman and Philbin were there. Maybe there's an inherent flaw in how they coach OL?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

On the first point, this is kind of a myth. I think it's a little bit of confirmation bias. Perception developed that the Dolphins are weak against tight ends and since it's not a readily available statistic every time a tight end catches a ball it becomes another chance for everyone to confirm the perception and lament how bad we are at covering tight ends.

But here is a fact you might not necessarily have known. In 2012, the Dolphins allowed 75 catches for 933 yards and 3 TDs to opponent tight ends. From a FANTASY perspective (and keep in mind all that means is coming up with a formula the relates yards and touchdowns for the purpose of comparison with the rest of the NFL), that ranked 14th in the NFL.

That's hardly what it is today. As of today, the Dolphins have allowed 25 catches for 329 yards and 6 TDs. From a fantasy points perspective using pretty standard scoring, that's not only 32nd in the NFL, it's 10% higher than the 31st ranked team.

 

you know what I find hard to swallow it that the chiefs have gotten better and they dd it in one offseason so why is it taking a decade to fix the oline problems .

the Bills are getting better and if we aren't careful they may pass us by and finishing 3 rd in our division for the amount of money spent shouldn't make Mr Ross Happy at all.

 

Median fantasy points (standard non-PPR scoring) given up by defenses to opposing tight ends has risen from 6.3 points per game to 7.5 points per game from 2012 to 2013.

The Miami Dolphins fantasy points given up to opposing tight ends has risen from 6.3 points per game to 16.3 points per game.

 

CK. Where the **** do you get these stats??? I know its a fight club thing...what CK says stays with what CK says but damn mate you are wikipedias wikipedia!

 

I found some more detailed statistics for the Dolphins

Year......NFL Rank......Catches......Yards......TDs
2005......25th......78 rec......768 yds......5 TDs
2006......24th......59 rec......761 yds......6 TDs
2007......3rd......43 rec......469 yds......5 TDs
2008......3rd......59 rec......611 yds......1 TDs
2009......21st......68 rec......993 yds......4 TDs
2010......19th......68 rec......806 yds......6 TDs
2011......20th......82 rec......973 yds......5 TDs
2012......16th......78 rec......979 yds......3 TDs
2013......32nd......25 rec......329 yds......6 TDs

 

You don't talk about ckipedia.

 

In case you're wondering the above statistics translate to 4.2 catches for 50 yards and 0.3 touchdowns given up per game by the defense to tight ends from 2005 to 2012.

This year the Dolphins are giving up 6.3 catches for 82 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game to opponent tight ends.

The most disturbing part about it is that as I detailed HERE the Dolphins defense has tried their damnedest to give up closer to 10 "virtual" touchdowns to opposing tight ends through Week 4.

The extra four come from:

1. A touchdown catch allowed by Reshad Jones to Browns backup Gary Barnidge which was called back on a holding penalty by right guard Oniel Cousins.

2. A touchdown catch allowed by Chris Clemons to Colts tight end Coby Fleener which was called back on a presnap illegal motion penalty.

3. A pass interference no-call in the end zone by Chris Clemons while covering Colts tight end Coby Fleener.

4. A 20 yard catch initially ruled down at the 1 yard line given up by linebacker Jason Trusnik to Colts backup Dominique Jones, later reversed on replay as officials made a judgment call that Jones bobbled the ball on the way down. Even though video evidence did not show the ball hitting the ground, officials overturned the call.

So, while people understandably like to point out that the Dolphins faced Tony Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron and Jimmy Graham...those guys accounted for only 3 of the 6 official touchdowns, and only 3 of the 10 touchdowns that the defense tried to give up.

 

:smackhead:

 

Well...

OK..it has certainly "looked" like we havent been able to cover TES for years...lol

But what do you make of the Sherman / Philbin dynamic with Aaron Rogers.

I did find something interesting:

in 2012 Aaron Rogers was sacked 51 times. Most in the NFL.



Interesting in that Aaron Rogers actually "DID" hold the ball longer then his other NFC counterparts. But we dont see this with Tannehill, which I think supports CKs argument that the number of sacks he is taking is less on Tannehill and more on the OL.

And herein is where some of our problem could be IMO. The Zone Blocking Scheme.


This is from a really good article about the Passing Game and The Zone Blocking Scheme:

"Here, the size limitation becomes a disadvantage. Larger offensive linemen have extra weight that must be negotiated for a rusher to reach the quarterback – particularly in the middle of the offensive line. Zone blockers are at greater risk of simply being pushed back into the quarterback because their lack of weight and their inability to dictate leverage give the defender the advantage.

In short, the time window for passing tends to be smaller for a zone-block team than a man-block team. The passing offense must compensate for the time deficiency through other means.
"

"It's simple, really; throwing deep requires giving enough time for receivers to run deep. If you limit the deep routes, the quarterback is not asked to hold the ball as long. You still have to run enough deep routes (and occasionally pass to them) to keep the defense honest, but the focus shifts more to the short-to-intermediate passing game. This is why so many zone-blocking teams adopt West-Coastish passing systems; the routes are based on timing and precision more than stretching the field. It doesn't have to be complex, but the routes must give the quarterback a chance to throw early if he is to throw at all."


http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2009/8/26/999603/the-passing-game-in-a-zone


I am tending to think that we just dont have the pieces in place yet to run a zone blocking scheme succesfully. The point was made that this style of of blocking scheme tends to turn the QB more into that of a game manager. Look at Elways stats the two years they won the SB when Shanahan brought Zone Blocking to the Broncos. He was a game manager...he didnt have gaudy numbers at all.

 

The Rams jus realised Max Starks, you guys thinks we should consider him?

 

He is right, our Roster is not as talented as billed. Is Pro Bowl a good denominator for talent? How many pro bowlers do we have? How many Stat Leaders do we have? Christ Julian Edelman has more catches than Brian Hartline and Wallace combined.