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O-Line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Oct 9, 2021.

  1. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Dorfdad made a post asking why nobody has gotten fired yet, and it kinda touched on something that I have been thinking about for awhile.

    The fundamental question is, "What do you think is the truth?"

    Do you think that all of the following players really are bad - Jackson, Kindley, Eichenberg, Robert Hunt, and Dieter prior to his injury? I'll be honest, the only one that I thought was a mistake at the time was Austin Jackson. I mean, I guess it is theoretically possible that all five of these guys are a bust. If that is the case, I think Grier is obviously the problem.

    This is where the theoretical deviates from common sense. I would just think that based on the draft position of all of these guys, some of them should be good players. Do you really believe that these guys are mediocre at best? If it is an issue of scheme, coaching, development, or playing guys out of position, I think blaming the line coach/offensive coordinators would be fair.

    I have a few alternate theories that I have been considering as well:

    -These guys are all just young, and it is a work in progress. As fans, we gotta just be patient, and it will work itself out.

    -We drafted a bunch of guards. Although an out there idea, it might be right. Remember back to draft day, it seems like every guy we drafted was praised for being position flexible. Remember when we got a peek into the Jags war room, and they had Eichenberg listed as a guard? It's possible that it just looks like we have a line, but it might be a mirage.

    I'm curious as to what you guys think.
     
  2. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    The first thing is they are all young. I think Hunt and Liam could/will be good. Dieter probably played as good as any of them before he got injured.

    Kindley was drafted in the 4th round so if he is even middle tier starter, that’s a huge win.

    Jackson is the one I have the most question marks on. I watched him get manhandled in college and now I’ve watched him struggled 2 seasons in the NFL. I’m not sold on him. I’ll admit he’s young and maybe, he’ll turn out ok.

    The bigger problem I have is the overall strategy of going to a complete youth movement. If we were in a complete rebuild, I could understand it. We were 10-6 last year and should be competing for playoffs this year. Getting rid of Flowers and Karras makes no sense, knowing how bad they are collectively RIGHT NOW. Additionally, I’ve just lost in all faith in Grier.
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    This team is better, or has more talent, than is being shown on the field. The problem is with the leadership in coaching and managing.

    On other teams many of these players would suddenly look much better.

    I can't say exactly what's going on but I will say we took good position coaches and made them coordinators. Then we brought in new position coaches. So we have inexperienced coordinators and position coaches. Then we cut veteran talent and now we have inexperienced players.

    We changed the offense.

    We're also moving these inexperienced players around in different positions.

    And worst of all, to me, we seem to be playing theoretical football, where we play different players in different positions and schemes as though they're interchangeable, and ignore individual strengths.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As I've said in other threads, I think we've drafted tough, versatile linemen the past few years and it's going to take some time for them to come together. People have to realize that under the newer CBA, these linemen aren't hitting defensive players in practices- they're going through half-speed walkthrus where there's very little physical contact. The difference between practice and live play is massive compared to 5 or 10 years ago.

    Additionally, we're trying to start 4 young guys and Dieter...which means you have no veteran leaders on the field pulling that group together. It's incredibly hard for one lineman to develop in today's NFL and we're trying to develop all five at once with no real physical contact except for three hours each Sunday. It's just super hard in the modern NFL since many positions need those actual, game simulated reps- DL, DE, LB, offensive line, RB, etc.
     
  5. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Can we get the Texas A&M line coach as soon as their season ends please! I watched that game last night and two rookie lineman i believe they said was their first game because of injuries and they beat Bama without stupid penalties.
     
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  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The problem is that this has been a decades long trend. There is some deep rooted failing in how we evaluate talent, style and coaching.

    It was probably a really bad idea to rely so heavily on youth - to be blunt, we have no anchors on the team. Look at the Chiefs who start rookies at C and G. They have vet anchors at T/G that the young players can lean on and who will be in the right spot doing the right thing.

    We should have signed an actual stud, not Flowers. Then compound the issue by paying Washington to take a decent player in favor of a second year player who couldn't make it out of the doghouse.

    Its just bad team building and design, bad coaching, play calling. Everything.
     
  7. Kud_II

    Kud_II Wtf is this curse you Gave me Lord? Club Member

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    Can't say for sure, would have to go back and evaluate on an individual basis, but our OL sucks, and I'd say Austin Jackson (I'd say Eichenburg but he's a rookie but he sucks so far) is leading that charge. Grier has a plethora of reasons to be gone. Our porous OL and 4 1st round picks (multiple 2nds) unfortunately keep coming to mind.
     
  8. Kud_II

    Kud_II Wtf is this curse you Gave me Lord? Club Member

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    Btw I know a lot of people are still hopeful about him, including me, but Tua was not a better pick than (nevermind Herbert for now) Penei Sewell would have been a good addition. Grier has flopped so much it's time to say curtains and try and find/pay someone good money, and poach someone from a different team that can manage this disgraced team from the top.. It's hard to put much blame on Flores cause it's hard to make chicken salad out of chicken s***. But he only has one or two more years before I'm ready to cut the cord on him too... I don't want to be giving HCs or GMs 5 years to prove themselves. I aint gonna live that long. 3 yrs turn around or your out... (4 for Flores cause he's had circumstances affect his abilities, which is mainly on Grier)
     
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  9. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, we knew the Dolphins line sucks and of course PFF sees it that way. Three years into the rebuild, 1 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders, a 3rd and a 4th rounder and just complete garbage. We better be targeting Tyler Linderbaum with our 2nd round pick and a serviceable to good OT in FA. Tua or not, no one is going to be successful behind this.

    32. MIAMI DOLPHINS (DOWN 3)

    Best-graded: G Michael Deiter | 61.2
    Worst-graded: T Austin Jackson | 49.2

    Miami’s offensive line has been a nightmare, regardless of the quarterback behind center. Tua Tagovailoa was at least doing a respectable job of hiding some of the problems, but Jacoby Brissett’s style of play only magnifies the issues. Seven different linemen have now played more than 100 snaps as the Dolphins have begun to shuffle the line in the hopes of stumbling on a winning combination. Only the Lions have surrendered more than the 79 total pressures Miami’s line has given up, and the group also ranks dead last in PFF pass-blocking grade.
     
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  10. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have AJ's grade as guard?
     
  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see it listed so I wonder if it’s because he doesn’t have enough snaps at that position.
     
  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It should not be very good either. He is regularly getting pushed back and collapsing the pocket, and is lucky he didn't get flagged for at least 3 or 4 holding penalties last game.
     
  13. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Here's how PFF described the Chargers' offensive line in 2020:
    Yet Justin Herbert played well as only a rookie.

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings
     
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  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    True greatness succeeds in spite of adverse situations. Herbert's ability to go off schedule and make hard throws under pressure is what separates him from a guy like Tua, who is only ably to succeed if he has a relatively clean pocket and wide open receivers like he had in Alabama.
     

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