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% of Pressures turned into Sacks

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/07/pressure-into-sacks/


    Mia: 24th worst 36 sacks on 198 pressures or 16.98%

    Well now, add that in with the number of max protects Henne calls and the picture begins to develop on what happened to the offense in 2010.


    Henne called for a max protects, when the opponents did mount pressure they generally got to Henne, but if one looks at the bottom of the list names like Cutler and Rothlesberger and Flacco make the list who all led their teams to the playoffs.

    So giving up sacks is not a bar for producing for those Qb's.
    Out of curiosity:

    TN: #9 25 198 12.98%
    Denver: #25 43 253 17%
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so tell me what your thinking then?, not sure i'am following you completely?
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well I don't know what padre is trying to say but I can say that I don't find it surprising that Henne rates pretty low on getting the ball out when he's pressured.

    That's how you should take this. This is a QB-centric statistic. In 2009, Henne was sacked 24% of the times he was pressured. He had a 37 QB Rating when throwing under pressure. In 2010 he improved to being sacked 19% of the times he was pressured, with a 49 QB Rating throwing under pressure.

    League average is about 15% sacks from pressured snaps. As for QB Ratings under pressure, most of the good QBs have one in the 60's I believe.
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Alright think about it Deej:

    -we "know" Henne called max protects, often.
    -we "know" the Oline was the 3rd best pass blocking unit in the league
    -we know Dolphins Qb's were sacked 17% of the time they were pressured

    What are the constants?

    The Oline graded out well, Henne called for max protections, yet the pressure to sack ratio was 26th in the league?

    To me it says when Henne was pressured, he was a easy Qb to sack, this on top of the Oline grading well and the max protection calls.

    Henne went down really easy, like the Don King fighter on the undercard of a pay per view.

    Henne is a pass throwing statue Deej.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know that...we know that..The whole damn world knows it, the question is can we operate our offense with this severe weakness...Let me ask you and CK this?, why did you both want Mallett if you knew you were getting the same type of athlete?, do you think you can win in todays league with a strict pocket passer? obviously I would say you do considering the endorsement of Malletts skillset...

    The stats that you provide in this topic are the reasons why I was so convicted about CKaps game, and not Malletts..

    Folks need to figure out what type of skillset you want, if you want the pocket passer and you think you can win with that type of skillset, than Henne has beautiful arm talent to be that guy...If you think he doesn't have the tools {and by tools I mean everything} to be a good QB, than we should of drated one that did..
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Styles don't win you games and they don't win you championships. Just like a certain martial arts style is not going to win you a mixed martial arts competition. It's the players.

    In this league you can be a dropback, pocket quarterback and win all kinds of games (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Phil Rivers, etc) or you can be a guy that likes to deal with pressure and extend plays so that you can make more big plays (Michael Vick, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman).

    It's not the style that's going to win you the championship, it's the player.

    Just because Chad Henne is the same style as Ryan Mallett, doesn't make them the same player. Or are we now to not distinguish between Chad Henne and Tom Brady, just because they're the same style? Mallett has several distinct advantages over Chad Henne when it comes to his skill set and talent on the field. I've enumerated them so many times that if you're still asking this question then whether or not I answer it doesn't matter because it appears you just don't accept the answer.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How do we "know" Henne was the one calling max protects? I saw someone ask that in another thread, and never saw an answer for it.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sure the same way Cutler managed to produce, simply let your Qb get the hell knocked out of him as the makes the throw, happened with Cutler and they made the NFCC.



    Well, look at it this way, Bulger is a more efficient version of Henne, a pass tossing statue of a pocket passer ditto Kyle Orton.

    I prefer Orton, but would not mind Young just to have a dramatic difference at Qb.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I answered this in another thread. Protection calls in the NFL are generally the responsibility of the quarterback. And if you don't accept that, then there's the fact that Dan Henning said so plainly in one of his press availabilities later on in the season. He was asked about all the extra protections being called and Henning said the quarterback is the one that sets those extra protections as needed.

    EDIT: My apologies. There was an error in my summing formulas which produced inaccurate results. I was under the impression that the rate at which Chad Henne called extra protections changed significantly after he was benched. This is not true. In fact, sadly and ridiculously, the number went up...from 4.1x in the first 8 games, to 4.3x in the 5 games Chad played by himself (no Thigpen/Pennington). However, the number interesting dropped down to 2.3x in the 3 games where Henne either didn't play at all (Chicago), or only played partially (New England, Tennessee)
     
  10. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    In this case, coffee is not only for closers. You'll take pressure whenever you can get it. For instance, would you take less pressures just so you could up your ratio? of course not...
     
  11. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    The problem I have with this one is that a team is penalized for fewer total pressures. If we gave up 300 instead of 200, we would be ranked much higher while playing much worse.
     
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  12. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    We dont know. And because they can't answer.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My debates about Mallett were not really whether or not he had the tools to be a great pocket QB,obviously the guy can throw the rock well..It was more about him not deserving to be a first round pick...I think Ckap will be the better player in the long run, but I would of been ok with drafting malllett in the 3rd, and I would of been hoping for him to get his sh$# together..

    For me, when it comes to styles, my point is, what kind of offense I wanna run that I think is best suited to win a championship...for me, that offense requires a certain skillset, which neither Henne or Mallett Have, but, if were going strictly from the pocket, Than I think Henne deserves another year, he showed last year in the first 10 games that it wasn't his fault that the team was playing 500 football...
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't put alot of stock in what Dan Henning said publicly about anything.

    My problem is this: we ran TONS of two WR sets last year, or so so it seemed while watching games, and we ran tons of PA. If I were Henne, and I kept seeing defenders not biting on PA, and I had to keep turning my back to the rush, I would have been calling max protect, too. So, IMO, IF it was all Henne calling max protect, I still fault Henning for his incredibly ****ty playcalling.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is awfully conveinent resnor, but at the end of the day all of this doesn't really matter.

    Daboll has new system so whatever happened last season does not mean very much at all except to say the Henne and the O was very conservative in 2010.
     
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Neither does anyone else. Except people using any random quote that supports whatever point they are trying to make. Imagine if Henning said Henne was a solid QB w/ a chance to be really good in due time. Would that change any of the Henne basher's minds? Nah, they'd say he was blowing smoke to protect Henne, and never acknowledge that he might also blow smoke in order to save his job/reputation.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Was not just Henning though:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/23/2029097/former-gms-chime-in-on-miami-dolphins.html

    Not a Henne Hater by any stretch GMJ, but make no mistake they have their eyes wide open for a replacement.

    FWIW I've been clear and think Casserly is correct, if you identify "your guy" then you pay what it costs to land him, if they really do like Henne they are betting their jobs that in a brand new offense, with no OTA's will help Chad Henne to blossom.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Being convenient doesn't make it any less true, does it? I am not one who thinks that Henne is some sort of amazing QB...I just think that Henning didn't do Henne any favors when it came to playcalling. Henne had a really solid season going through the first 2/3 of the season, and then injuries hit, and everything went to crap. I've argued with a guy on a different forum, and I'll say it here: if you put Henne on the Ravens, I think the Ravens don't miss a beat. Put Flacco on the Dolphins, and their record is probably about the same as it was last year. Guys like Ryan, Flacco, and Sanchez all had better weapons on offense the last couple of seasons than Henne...I am interested to see what happens this year with Henne.
     
  19. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Hennes' confidence was damage by the coaching staff and I don't know if he'll recover, but to blame him and only him for the poor play of the offense is an insult to my low IQ.
    It seems as if some guys believe we would have gone to the super bowl if it wasn't for Henne.
    The team played like ****, I don't spend hours looking at tape, but I watched every game and we couldn't run the ball and receivers couldn't get open.
    Why don't we look at why we didn't run the ball effectively, why did we use the wildcat when it didn't work, why opposing teams appeared to have our playbook.
     
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  20. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Been sayin it since last season, its not a matter of giving Henne a good Oline, even with the injuries, he had one. The true matter of fact is getting a good QB behind this Oline when its healthy. Woooooo, scary. Henne and Bulger are bookends. They both have the patent on freaking out under pressure, even if its not getting to them and automatically go into the Tuck, bend and drop to the ground mode. Bulger may be a tad more accurate but as I said, he is an older version of Henne, no difference at all and he seemed quite happy wearing a baseball cap on the sideline last year getting paid millions. Start him ? Yep, auto mode kicks in under any pressure, tuck, bend and drop to ground.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yup, thats true, now the question is, can we win from the pocket.
     

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