1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Off the bus. I'm not saying cut the cord, but Orton or a 1st Rd talent. No excuses.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Token Gay Dolfan

    3,320
    2,263
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    I like Chad, I really do. I have his jersey. I'm Mr. Henne, I seldom blame him. I never rip him.

    However, he comes back next season and FIGHTS for his job, or holds a clipboard or is handed his walking papers.

    He's just not a leader. He's not the alpha in the huddle or in the room.

    "A quarterback is the thermostat, not the thermometer." YOU SET THE GODDAMN TEMPERATURE.

    Orton can be had on the cheap. Go get him. Day One of the offseason. 3rd and a conditional should do it.

    Don't like Orton? Fine. We'll be picking at 16. Get me Mallet or Newton, failing that, Locker.

    No more 2nd and third round dumpster diving.

    Get me a ****ing talent, and do it now.

    Chad wants to be the man, FINE. Beat somebody out.

    Competition is the elixir of success. Read that here once or twice.
     
  2. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    48,082
    23,402
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Locker isn't even 2nd rd talent.

    And I wouldn't pay a 3rd for Orton.
     
  3. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Token Gay Dolfan

    3,320
    2,263
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    You wanna saddle up with Henne solo next year? And no viable other option?

    Don't say Pennington, that party is OVER.

    And I love Doc B, but Gradkowski isn't a valid option either.
     
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    48,082
    23,402
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    I would love for us to bring Orton in. I don't think he's worth a 3rd though, especially since we have no 2nd this year.

    Look over any of my posts, just because Locker is no good, and I don't think Orton is worth a 3rd doesn't mean I want to go solo with Henne.
     
    Ozzy likes this.
  5. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

    6,363
    3,740
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Bellevue, WA
    I'm on-board with spending our first-round pick on a QB, but only if he's rated somewhere near our pick. I don't want to be settling for the 32nd-ranked NFL prospect at the 16th pick, if that makes sense.

    But if that's the case, we better hard-pursue someone like Orton. Sticking with Henne would be a bad choice.
     
  6. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

    284
    97
    0
    Dec 13, 2010
    Rather than giving away draft picks how do you feel about Shaun Hill? I'm fairly certain that he's a free agent this year and he looked pretty good against our defense last week. He's also use to battling for his job.
     
  7. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

    284
    97
    0
    Dec 13, 2010
    Also if Luck and Gabbert don't come out this year I'd much grab a first round QB in 2012 it could be an awesome class
     
    ToddsPhins and jetssuck like this.
  8. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

    6,363
    3,740
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Bellevue, WA
    I'd love to have him here actually, especially if we're talking about a veteran to "groom" whatever rookie QB we draft. Assuming Pennington won't be back, of course..... which is a fair assumption.

    I think Detroit might find a way to keep him though.
     
  9. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,327
    4,182
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    Orton is not a free agent and is signed through 2011. He is the best option out there to me to bring in some veteran competition but it is a wait and see if Denver decides to release him. Trading a third considering we have no second is a huge reach. Cam Newton may return to school and even if he doesn't he is not an NFL ready QB. Who even knows if he has the brains to be an NFL QB. Great athletes do not always make great NFL quality QB's.
    It cracks me up how everyone all of a sudden thinks that just because a QB is a #1 pick that they are immediately going to come in and set the world on fire.
     
  10. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Token Gay Dolfan

    3,320
    2,263
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    Hill would be serviceable, but ultimately just another fake horse on the carousel. I want a real life thoroughbred.
     
  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    I'm so glad that personnel decisions aren't based on fan opinion. We'd be on what, year 4 of the Brady Quinn experiment right now?
     
    Moves, Killerphins and MarinePhinFan like this.
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    How about we trade the #16 and the 3rd rd pick for Orton and our second rd pick back?

    :shifty:
     
  13. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,327
    4,182
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    :lol:

    Hey wait if we are just going to use the #1 on another injured project like Odrick why the hell not. :shifty:
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Then move Henne for a 3rd or 4th rd pick..that is right were his value is..:shifty:

    Don't give up on Odie Bro, have a solid hunch on him and think he will be a fine fine player for us.
     
  15. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Token Gay Dolfan

    3,320
    2,263
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    I'm not saying get rid of him. CHALLENGE HIM. Don't hand him the job. His play didn't earn it this year.

    And CHALLENGE HIM FOR REAL, NOT WITH THE VAUNTED TYLER BECKAM THIGPEN.
     
  16. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    27,718
    27,728
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    This is what I've been saying as well. I like Henne too, but he didn't earn the starting job for next season. I want to bring in someone like Palmer or Orton, and let them fight it out in camp. Make one of them earn it. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a QB in the first round, but we still need to fix the OLine and running game.
     
  17. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

    6,363
    3,740
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Bellevue, WA
    They may not set the world on fire, but statistically you have a much greater chance of success. We've spent what, five or six 2nd round picks on QB's now? Time to use a first, if QB is available.

    You have to pay to play - just ask the Rams, Ravens, Falcons, Green Bay, San Diego, New York, the other New York, Detroit.... I could go on, but you get the point sir. :up:
     
  18. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

    284
    97
    0
    Dec 13, 2010
    I would prefer not to go with orton because if we can get him for a 3rd and henne officially becomes a bust then we'll have to use a 1st the next year for our qb of the future.
     
  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Challenge him? Why not support him? we have limited resources with which to make the team better, why use them on someone who would only be playing if Henne fails? IMO we're better off upgrading our OL, running game, and our speed/quickness & play making ability. I think doing that will help Chad Henne (and the team) a lot more than bringing another QB.
     
  20. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

    6,363
    3,740
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Bellevue, WA
    Well HELLO Mrs. Henne! :lol: ;)
     
  21. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,665
    5,183
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Kyle Orton would make a fine stop-gap QB........ but we don't need one of those.

    I'd prefer to see what Henne could do with more speed at WR and backfield, 3 WR sets, more shotgun, etc... play to his strengths. Fact is, for next year there really are no other realistic options and I'd rather not waste a high pick on any of the 2nd tier QB's available in the draft.
     
    Moves and ToddsPhins like this.
  22. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    12,105
    8,502
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    Henne has issues but I don't think leadership is one of them.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Orton is only 28 or 29, he would have plenty of service life for the Dolphins.

    As for holes, well, I suspect Marlon Moore has first crack at providing the speed at Wr we have needed beginning this weekend, as long as you identify the need properly there will be a plethora of options both in the draft and via other avenues.
     
  24. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,327
    4,182
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    So you see what a few of us see here JS and believe me it is a minority..... Play with a faster tempo. Let him sling it to his strengths. The hurry up two minute stuff early on Sunday was working to his strengths. It even started to open up the running game to give us manageable third down opportunities. What a concept. :up:
     
  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,159
    7,741
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    I think JaMarcus Russell can be had..... and probably Brady Quinn, too. They're both 1st rounders. :shifty:
     
    Coral Reefer and GMJohnson like this.
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,159
    7,741
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    That's something that he needs to develop..... but it also helps when a team is "yours" and you don't have an entire roster looking at another QB as the leader (AKA Chad Pennington).
     
  27. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

    9,069
    802
    0
    Jan 15, 2010
    West Miami-Dade County
    It may be what we have to do. Get Ingram this year, and go for a QB in 2012
     
  28. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,285
    5,233
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    I'm not ok with the 1st round pick going on a QB especially with no 2nd round pick.

    If we trade back and acquire another pick I'm ok with CK's scenario where he had a RB picked and then spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB to put in the mix. We will need to bring in a Vet as well.

    I agree Henne needs someone breathing down his neck for the starting position next year. How quality that Vet will be is yet to be seen.

    Having said that, Henne and the Phins also need someone new running the offense next year or none of the above will matter.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  29. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    26,846
    29,964
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I've never even liked Henne, but I still think he's our best hope for next season. And I don't mind another 1st round QB, in fact I'd welcome one, but only if they're worth it. Most every potential draftee on that list is either not worth the pick or is at least as big of a gamble as Henne. And that QB will only have a chance to succeed if we get a good OC who'll actually put a QB in position to succeed. Those are actually the same things Henne needs.
     
    ToddsPhins, Coral Reefer and Stitches like this.
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,159
    7,741
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    plus these guys would more than likely sit behind Henne for a year, would they not? If I'm using a 1st on a QB, I'd rather it be on a guy who is NFL ready whom I can hand the reigns over to from day one and say "Ok, it's your team now buddy".

    The one question I ask myself about going after a franchise hopeful QB in the 1st round is: "Do I like this guy enough that I'd give up a future 1st to make sure I get him?" If that answer is "No", then I typically don't want to draft him. Just my philosophy. The only guy in this draft that I feel that way about is Luck, and we're not sniffin him.
     
    Coral Reefer likes this.
  31. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

    2,228
    1,004
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Indianapolis
    I find it very interesting people say a 3rd for Orton is a reach...I mean a 3rd round pick for a quality starting QB in the NFL that isn't going to lose you games sounds like a steal to me.

    I mean you wouldn't trade the Patrick Turner for Orton?? Langford for Orton and you say no?? No way you trade Lorenzo Booker for Orton right?? And I would call you insane if you even talked about trading Derek Hagan for Orton!!

    If we could get Orton for a 3rd round pick do it in a heart beat. He can compete with Henne and we will see if it was the offensive system or Henne that actually sucked. If its Henne we have Orton right there. Its a win/win situation.
     
    ATLFINFAN and jdang307 like this.
  32. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    12,105
    8,502
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    I think he is a leader. I think he is by position but also from things we've heard. Players have always said he's a confident guy, confident in the huddle, and works his tail off both on the practice field and film room. Plus, the guy came back from the knee injury and has played hurt. He will probably need surgery on it in the offseason.

    I think the only fear I have is if the team has lost confidence in his ability toake plays and win ballgames. We've seen Fasano get on Henne in the game. We've seen Brandon Marshall have some bad expressions and body language.

    I believe this was Henne's team. If the players thought Pennington as the leader that is the fault of Henne IMO--which I don't think was the case. But continuing with that hypothetical, it's his fault because if he wins games and makes plays the team will follow. The front office doesn't get rid of a guy like Pennington who provides so much, just because Chad Henne can't take the reigns.

    I think he has his teammates respect and he leads by his work ethic. But, sooner or later, he's going to have to win.
     
    ToddsPhins and Stitches like this.
  33. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

    284
    97
    0
    Dec 13, 2010
    I think it might be a reach that we could get him for as little as a 3rd
     
  34. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    48,082
    23,402
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Orton does lose games sometimes though (he does have a worse W/L record than Henne over the past 2 seasons by the way). A lot of what Orton does is done in "garbage time" as well. If we got Josh McDaniel's as our OC, I'd be more inclined to give a 3rd for Orton, but still against it.

    Would I trade Patrick Turner or Lorenzo Booker for Orton? Of course. Would I trade Langford? I'm not sure. By that measure, we had some bad 1st rd picks (Yatil Green, Jason Allen, Ted Ginn) so should we just trade our 1st for Orton? Hell, how many 2nd rounders have we missed on? Let's throw those in too (or instead).
     
  35. princekong2

    princekong2 New Member

    271
    68
    0
    Feb 12, 2010
    I say Trade Our 3rd Rd Pick For Orton Or Kolb (When was the Last time we picked Up a really Good Player in the 3rd Round Anyways)

    Trade Down W/ Our Draft Pick To Get a Late First & 2nd Round Pick And Draft A Runningback (There has been A Good Runningback In Almost all the Recents Draft After the 1st Round So Dont Get Over Excited On Ingram.

    Pick Up Some Linemen in the Draft and Free Agency
    Speedy Receiver/KR-Draft (ahem Torrey Smith Outta Maryland)
    Maybe Draft Another QB (Ponder/Stanzi/Moore)
    Maybe Trade Crowder For a 5th (or Is That Too High?)
    Bring Micah Johnson Back
    Draft/PickUp/Find/Discover A New Offensive Coordinator Lol

    And Were on The Road To Greatness
    I Should Be A GM :up:
     
  36. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    12,105
    8,502
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    I want to get a QB by any means necessary too. I'm all for trading picks to get a solid guy. I say that because I believe better QB play with the talent we have, we are a playoff team. Are there holes? Yes. But, this team is talented enough to be in the playoffs.
     
  37. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

    2,228
    1,004
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Indianapolis
    Point taken but you can't argue we have whiffed on many more 3rd's than we have 1st or 2nd's. I mean I just reeled of 4 years of whiffs, with the exception of Langford who I wouldn't call a whiff, but maybe a near miss.
     
  38. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    48,082
    23,402
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    So you named off 3 whiffs of 3rd rounders.

    How about- AJ Feeley, John Beck, Pat White, Daunte Culpepper. All 2nd rounders. That's like 4 years out of 5 as well. And who can forget Eddie Moore.
     
  39. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

    2,228
    1,004
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Indianapolis
    Sure I could have went further, just not here at work right now. Also Culpepper and Feeley were wastes of 2nd round picks, but not by drafting them which is what I was getting at. People worry so much about wasting draft picks, when you can get known talent as opposed to a lottery ticket.
     
  40. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    48,082
    23,402
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Yes they were wastes based on foolish trades (in hindsight), which may be what a trade for Orton might be. A waste of resources is a waste of resources.
     

Share This Page