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***Official 2011-12 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I love the signing. We've been on his tail for a minute. And while he doesn't have the best #s, they are certainly better then our current SS corp.
     
  2. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    After months of reports about Yoenis Cespedes being on the verge of free agency MLB has finally announced that the 26-year-old outfielder who defected from Cuba last summer is cleared to negotiate with teams.
     
  3. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    MLB's Top 100 Prospects released : http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120125&content_id=26460152&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

    Prospect Points

    [TABLE="class: stats_table"]
    [TR]
    [TH]Team[/TH]
    [TH]Top 100[/TH]
    [TH]Points[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Mariners[/TD]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]329[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Royals[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]290[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pirates[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]276[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Braves[/TD]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]267[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]D-backs[/TD]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD]253[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Padres[/TD]
    [TD]6[/TD]
    [TD]237[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rangers[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]236[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rockies[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]229[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Yankees[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]225[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Nationals[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]206[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    Breakdown by position


    [TABLE="class: stats_table"]
    [TR]
    [TH]Pos.[/TH]
    [TH]Top 100[/TH]
    [TH]Top 50[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]RHP[/TD]
    [TD]36[/TD]
    [TD]20[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]OF[/TD]
    [TD]21[/TD]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]LHP[/TD]
    [TD]12[/TD]
    [TD]7[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]SS[/TD]
    [TD]11[/TD]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]C[/TD]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]3B[/TD]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]1B[/TD]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2B[/TD]
    [TD]1[/TD]
    [TD]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Full 100 list : http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/index.jsp
     
    muscle979 and Aqua4Ever04 like this.
  4. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Nationals have agreed to sign free agent right-hander Brad Lidge to a one-year deal, the team announced. Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com tweets that Lidge will earn $1MM plus incentives.

    again, Nats have a nice SP and Pen mix for sure.....their D is suspect, and no Fielder, but they are heading in nice direction.
     
  5. King Felix

    King Felix chasing the high Club Member

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    ackley and carp are such gods. ackley>>>>
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    Pujols isn't 37 lol
     
  7. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    Texas hasn't had much difficulty building up their farm system. They seem well run and in it for the long haul.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    As far as we know.... Maybe he's not even Albert Pujols!
     
    Mainge likes this.
  9. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    How do you know?
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    Because until a report comes out that says he is 37, he is not 37. He is 32.
     
  11. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Okay.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    No.

    But Miguel Tejada isn't Albert Pujols.
     
  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Crap I wanted to see Oswalt in a Sox uniform, he would have gotten beat up in the AL East, now they are going to get Jackson who will do real well....Oswalt didn't and hasnt wanted any part of the AL for the past few years now....
     
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't blame him, especially at the tail end of his career and gunning for a 1 year deal to prove he's healthy for a multi-year deal next year makes zero sense to head to the AL, especially the AL East. I'd actually be surprised if Jackson went to the AL too, if I were him I'd stay in the NL Central and beat up on those pathetic line ups.
     
  15. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Who knows where Oswalt or Jackson will OFFICIALLY land....But how anyone can state unequivocally that Jackson will do real well in AL let alone NL is beyond me.

    .500 career arm with 4.46 ERA across both leagues says all you need to know why he is a FA with few nibbles.

    Bottomline, with all the bats that have fled the NL, I know in Fantasy leagues or real life, arms in NL have a leg up for the most part over AL arms for sure.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I like Oswalt to the Cards, I think the NL makes more sense for him as he can do the other stuff that helps pitchers win games in that league compared to the aL.
     
  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't think anyone said Jackson will do real well in the AL or NL. But using a pitcher's win/loss and ERA to try and explain why he doesn't have a job right now, doesn't exactly help your case. Come on BigDog you're better than that.

    I think the reasons why Jackson doesn't have a job at this stage has more to do with the fact that he's a Scott Boras client (Boras almost always waits out the market) and big market teams either don't have the cash that usually do doing the offseason, teams are waiting out the market hoping to get a bargain or they don't have a need for a SP. Guys like Jeff Francis, Chris Young, Chris Capuano have jobs and I'd take Jackson over all 3 of those guys, so just because he's unsigned now doesn't mean he's unwanted or not good, Prince Fielder just signed a few days ago.

    Jackson is in no way going to be a difference maker, there really wasn't one P that was this offseason, however as a 4th or 5th starter he's not a terrible option, especially if he gives a team 180 to 200+ innings like he's been averaging the past 4 seasons.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  18. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    You can say it your way, or my way, both make the key point - and it does make my case, and makes it perfectly succinct....at the end of the day, he is a .500 pitcher with +4 ERA.....he is not a Difference maker - agree add in the Boras expected/demanded $$$ contract expectations and you get why a guy like Jackson is at the end of the FA process for a valid reason. Since we agree on this, not sure why you feel I am not making a case accurately.

    Again, maybe FinYank was being sarcastic, but he seems to be in the camp that says Jackson will do real well in AL. Just pointing it out since you asked who!

    Personally, I would like to think Fin (regardless of Saux or Yanks love affair) was being sarcastic, as frankly, he probably knows at the end of the day, whether its Oswalt or Jackson, neither is really going to impact significantly - RSaux bats/D or not backing them. Facing AL bats (as Jackson showed with Det - but Oswalt has yet to battle in big sample size) they both could probably hang tough in a dozen games or so, exit early in dozen more, etc....but Oswalt has his health issues, and Jackson has his inconsistency. He is the $1M arm with .10cent head referenced in Bull Durham - since his days in the Dodgers farm system.
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Because you're using pitcher W/L records and ERA. Those are meaningless/misleading stats and don't accurately tell how good/bad a pitcher is. I don't think there's a front office in baseball today that looks at either of those stats anymore to make a decision on whether they should sign that player, especially W/L record.
     
  21. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    interdasting
     
  22. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I am not using only those stats, I was summing things up using them....same as your generic statement "he isn't a difference maker" as it too covers any and all the stats used to arrive at that conclusion. I simply "nutshelled" his reality at the most generic level as to why he is not viewed as a difference maker.

    Regardless, its why I argued against the claim that he would do real well in AL even w/Boston.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What would Fielder leaving in the offseason have to do with attendance during the season? Ditto Braun failing a steroids test after the season was over, while having a MVP season during it?

    Brewers also have been a good team the last 3 yrs or so, and were willing to make moves like trading for CC Sabathia for a stretch run, whereas teams like the Padres, can make no stretch moves, teams like the Rays win, yet cannot fill a phone booth at their stadium etc.

    And keep in mind RF, that is stuff for the offseason, each yr is a new yr, it is also the job of fans to have some optimism as the season moves closer to beginning there is a difference between arguing over the structure of MLB and just enjoying the season.

    Also will say the shrinking of little league programs across the country is far more ominous then MLB's cost structures.
     
  24. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Losing one of your best players while your other best player might be out for 50 games is a pretty negative thing don't you think? Yet the fans are still buying tickets. And yes you're helping make my point that winning will bring the fans out even while losing their superstar players (Sabathia, Fielder). They have built up good will by winning and the fans are responding. Again winning will bring out more fans than signing a single player or multiple players in the long run.

    As for the Rays we touched on this subject a million times. They play in the worst stadium in the MLB and the location is extremely difficult to get too. However their TV and radio ratings have been going up each year so the fans, while not actually going to games, are watching and following the team. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule and it is possible that good teams won't draw no matter what because of the location of their ball parks and on the flip side some bad teams no matter what will always draw because of the fan base.

    And yes I agree the MLB needs to do a much better job at marketing the game towards the younger generation.
     
  25. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    yeah ah no....2 words...

    Scott Boras....
     
  26. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    This....I should have read before I posted 2X in a row....:lol:
     
  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Thing is BDH, who gets paid on what they did 5 years ago anymore? I mean at best it establishes durability I get that, but for a pitcher they use what maybe 2-3 years previous as guideline....if thats the case he has a sub-4 ERA since 09....maybe it shows he is learning how to pitch as he is getting older IDK...

    Difference maker no, awesome deal on a 1 yr deal, absolutely because that dude will win ballgames on the right team....alla the Sox...Wins are basically determined on how much run support you get, look at Cliff Lee for example, his W-L record wasnt good on Cleveland, but look at his numbers and they tell an entirely different story...

    All I am saying is this BDH....

    Jackson>Oswalt and by miles to me....I am begging to see the Sox sign Oswalt...BEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGING AND PRAYYYYYYYYYYYYYINGGGGGGGGGG AND WISHHHHHHHHHHHONG UPON A STARRRRRRRRRRRRR

    Edwin Jackson in the 4 hole on the Red Sox would be a nightmare match-up....
     
  28. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    sucks for V-Mart.....

    you knew this was coming...he had a nice little career, nothing crazy stat wise...but had a good run, won a ring...

     
  29. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    It has definitely gotten to the point where I just don't care about the remaining free agents (Cespedes included).

    I just want some Spring Training reports already.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Player X is in the best shape of his life and Pitcher Y learned a new pitch. Meanwhile Player B is reporting late because of visa issues. Is that better?
     
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  31. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    As long as Player X is Hanley Ramirez and Pitcher Y is Josh Johnson, but instead of learning a new pitch, he is perfectly healthy. And I have no idea who Player B would be :shifty:.

    But yes that is much better than hearing about where Edwin friggin Jackson ends up.
     
  32. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Player B = The Pitcher Formerly Known as Leo Nunez?

    And yes I agree about your previous post.
     
  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    agreed I am switching gears here and going into the Yankee thread bunker...

    you have Oswalt, Jackson, Cespedes (who is probably 50), and thats it for bigger names....nothing to see here anymore move along move along...
     
  34. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Plus his "real" name is probably Saturnino Orestes Armas "Minnie" MiƱoso Arrieta! :lol:
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I wouldn't move it in now, especially considering all of their top prospects are pitchers. Field a team to your strengths.
     
  36. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Montero wants it to happen...
     
  37. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    E. Jackson better than R. Oswalt? You cant be serious....(miles???). wow, just wow!
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  38. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Rather face Jackson all day. Roy has a problem staying healthy. But when he's healthy he's a much better pitcher.
     
  39. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I would have a hard time believing any of the 30 GMs disagree with that statement! FinYank concerns me sometimes with his out of the box thinking:tongue2:
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think the whole health issue is the reason why Oswalt is not only still a FA but is seeking a 1 year deal. And yes Oswalt is clearly the better pitcher when healthy but I think at this part in both of their careers Jackson is the better bet to give a team 200 innings, which as a 4th or 5th starter is huge.

    FWIW Gammons was on NESN a few minutes ago and said he talked to Boras and after the conversation he feels the Sox have the best shot at signing Jackson to a 1 year deal as Jackson wants to pitch for a winning team that would give him a lot of run support.
     

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