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***Official 2011-12 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Roy Oswalt would get torched in the Al East....I am not mincing words when I say this....

    If I am wrong so be it....whatever....but I wont be.....again as a Yankee fan, pray he goes to Boston....but your the guy that still loves Tex in the 3-hole come playoff time so theres that too....:tongue2:
     
  2. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ...
     
  3. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  4. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Where do you want Tex?
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    Lead off.
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Torched might be strong words though. Will his numbers be as good in the AL East as they would in the NL? Probably not, but it's not like Oswalt is a scrub. He is still a good pitcher when healthy. Last year he was averaging 91.5 MPH from his fastball (drop 1 MPH from the previous year which probably has to do with his back problem) but he still had an ERA+ of over 100, his walk rate, ground ball rate and fly ball rate have stayed consistent with his career. I think it's fair to say that Oswalt can absolutely put up the numbers Freddy Garcia did with the Yankees last year, especially since Oswalt is a better pitcher and has a better fastball than Garcia. Of course again the key is if he's healthy. I think Oswalt could pitch and pitch well in the AL East if he's healthy, especially with his ground ball rate and control.
     
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  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    In the Independent Leagues.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    Plus, his stats against the AL isn't that bad. Granted, it's 200 innings, but still.
     
  9. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I mean 200 innings spread out over his whole career so that's what 10 plus years now is a bit of a small sample but it's worth mentioning for sure. As is him pitching in a hitters home ball park his whole career, which is something I didn't mention. But again part of the reason why he's been so effective through the years has been his control, command and GB rate which translates to either league.
     
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  10. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    On the bench.....with Chavez playing 1st cuz he is a better hitter....problem is his health lol.....

    I kid I kid (kinda) but 5th is perfect for him....

    The 5 hole is a good place where your lower avg, higher power guys should be...
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    I think 5th is horrbile.

    1. Gardner.
    2. Granderson
    3. Cano.
    4. Mark.
    5. A Rod
     
  12. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Jeter leads off for most of the season....and A-Rod is a better all around hitter than Tex

    Tex will actually see some pitches in the 5 hole....but you bring up an interest point because if he was sandwiched in between Cano and A-Rod....me if I am a pitcher I am going after Tex out of those 3...

    unless it is the playoffs, then hell I am going after all of them...:lol:
     
  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Fink why not? I know they are budget responsible but they are well under any luxury tax penalties right? they are only what 150M....(hahaha only).....they can add a pitcher I would think...

     
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No they're not under the luxury tax penalty, they're either right at it or slightly above it last I heard. Their payroll is around the 180 million mark right now.

    As for Cherington's comments, again remember that all players, agents and FO people lie. Of course Ben would love to add another pitcher but if he says that (especially with Scott Boras lurking) the price tag for the Oswalt or Jackson would go up. But I do think that Cherington is smart enough not to overpay for so-so pitchers just to add them. He's going to be smart about the signings.
     
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  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I don't know the Yankees as well as you do, but I was just going by old fashioned baseball rules. OBP guys at the top, best hitter at third, and power hitter in the fourth. However, I didn't know that Jeter had a higher OBP than Gardner. So I agree with you on Jeter leading off.
    I don't see the point of having Rodriguez at third, though. I don't think he's a better hitter than Mark or Cano at this stage of his career.
     
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  16. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    baseball reference has them at 158.1M.....
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    No no bro, I meant Cano everday 3rd, Tex-4th and A-Rod 5th...which would be interesting because A-Rod is a better bat to ball contact hitter than Tex, so maybe Tex actually sees some pitches in between those 2....

    The good thing that there seems like there will be some pressure from the media on Tex a little bit this year.....there has been some articles this offseason stating he needs to do more...and I agree...23M a year for a 220 hitter is unacceptable...love the power, and the glove, but I would take less power numbers in return for more hits.....

    Lastly they bat Jeter leadoff because he is best there....and loyalty really.....
     
  18. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  19. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't think/know that's correct. Every Sox writer stated the payroll was around 180 million or so.

    Here's a good article on the Sox payroll by a must follow writer, Alex Speier:

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/b...udget-isnt-problem-another-look-red-sox-payro

    EDIT: That 158.1M figure is before they settle on a contract with David Ortiz and Aceves, with the max between those two players to be just under 16 million, the minimum would be 13.6. So that would bring the figure to around 170 to 175ishM
     
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  20. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    right right I forgot about Ortiz, I was gonna say BR isnt rarely if ever wrong...
     
  21. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    How do you think Hamilton's relapse impacts his contract negotiation? Seems odd to me that he has these relapses in public places...i wonder how many times this has happened at home, or in a hotel when he's alone...
     
  22. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I mentioned a few pages ago and also a few times on other pages that I would be worried about signing him to a long term deal based on his history. I absolutely think it's going to hurt him. I'd be really surprised if a team gave him a long term deal. If I'm Texas or another team I'd offering him a 2 year deal max with a few team option years. Or if a team does want to give him a long term deal perhaps add some clauses in his contract that state if he falls off the wagon, especially with drugs he's contract is voided if the team chooses (although I'm not sure if that's legal to put into the contract or if the union or MLB offices would approve such clauses).
     
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  23. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    A poster on another message board jokingly said he hopes he drinks his way into Miami's budget, and to be honest, he's not that far away as is. I agree with Ray. He's one more drink away, IMO, from costing himself a lot of money.

    I wonder what's going to happen to him after he retires when he doesn't have baseball to keep him preoccupied and focused everyday. Hope he has a strong support system.
     
  24. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    A part of me thinks that one drink is a big deal, the other part of me says, he had a few drinks, there's nothing wrong with that. At this point though, I disagree no one will give him a long term deal. I believe he will get one. Although like Mainge says, he may be just one more drink from that changing.
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Well, first of all this is his 2nd public outing where he was spotted in a bar drinking, so who knows how many other times this has happened (if other times have happened, whether they were in public or privately) that we know of. The problem though is that his situation and issues are just so public there's just so much risk involved for the team signing him to a long term deal. If it was anyone else of course one drink, no big deal or even if it was a few drinks (as long as he wasn't driving) again no big deal. But when you're the poster child for substance abuse in the MLB it's a huge deal. Plus I'm not sure what his situation is as far as if he fails a drug test what would happen to him regarding suspensions or even thrown out of baseball (guys can only fail so many drug tests before they get kicked out for good). As good of a talent he is, he's simply one drink away from throwing it all away. Of course even without him getting caught drinking I still think there are major red flags with him not only being on the wrong side of 30 but even staying healthy for a full season. Either way it will certainly be extremely interesting to see him hit free agency that's for sure.
     
  26. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I still think Texas ends up re-signing him. Probably just fewer years, and more team protection that before. I can't see another team who doesn't know him as well taking a risk; and if the Rangers do let him go that has to be a huge red flag to other teams willing to risk it.

    You definitely called it a few pages back when Hamilton came up, though.
     
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  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    If he doesn't resign with Texas he would be best served to stick to a smaller market city.
     
  28. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    The Marlins may need a centerfielder next year.....:shifty:
     
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  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Josh Hamilton in Miami? I'm just picturing Scarface right now....
     
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  30. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    LOL if he ends up here you know "The Franchise" is staying in Miami for another season.
     
  31. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Kershaw let them off the hook....but still played it nicely for the 2015 season and beyond.
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Maybe it's just me but I'd rather have a guaranteed 19 million than the risk of nothing. Of course he left money on the table but as a pitcher he's one pitch away from his career. If he continues to stay healthy and good he's probably going to get the biggest pitcher contract in baseball history in the very least CC Sabathia money.
     
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  34. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    If Cashman can pull this one off, I will be a happy camper...

    Pirates and Yankees working on trading AJ Burnett for Garrett Jones (and cash). Now $33M is owed over the next two years to AJ, and right now, aside from finalizing on G. Jones being the player, Pirates are looking to only pay $10, where Yanks want closer to 15.5M (50/50 split). I say if Cashman can get them to agree on G. Jones, pay the $20M and be done with it. If not Jones, then fine work on 50/50 split of final monies to AJ.

    Would love Mr. Jones as the Lefty platoon DH guy for 2012...far more than Damon, Matsui, or Ibanez.
     
  35. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Jones isnt happening....they are saying Yanks paying around $19-23 million of the $33 million, so that has Pitt paying $10-14 million of it....for that money you are getting nobody back or guys like Casey Kelly :tongue2:....or as a reporter on Twitter said "Yanks should just be looking for a playdate" hahaha this is a salary dump...

    If they clear this money, they are expected to sign Chavez and Ibanez.....
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Trolling alert!
     
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  37. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Miami got used again....good to see it goes for multiple sports in this Miami
     
  38. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    You really think he wouldn't have signed had the Marlins offered 9 mil/year?
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    He was going to whatever offered him the most money. Word is Miami offered him 36 mill for 6 years. If a team in Japan offered him or even an established MLB player more money that player would play in Japan.

    MLB needs a cap though how can the Yankees or Red Sox be able to compete with Oakland signing the best international FAs.
     
  40. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I think its great for baseball and Oakland to sign him....shocked they found the money, and shocked Billy got the approval.
     

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