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***Official 2011 New York Yankees Thread***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    If it it was a 1 year deal, low cost maybe because it would give Romine another year on the farm to develop as I dont think he is bat ready yet.........but I would like to see Montero as well as the full time DH, back up catcher depending on how Cervelli heals from his concussions.......
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Signing Ortiz for 1 year while wasting an option year with Montero in the minors would be so dumb on so many levels. Now if they trade Montero that's a different story. But I just can't see Ortiz with the Yankees next year.
     
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  3. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    right I forgot that too....
     
  4. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Cashman hasnt!
     
  5. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Ehh they could just as easily get rid of Cervelli and slide Montero in the backup role...
     
  6. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Honestly, I would expect that....Romine will be part of 25 following ST. Wouldnt surprise me.

    As far as Montero, its a question of whether the trade market takes him (I would most certainly knock on SEA door and discuss King Felix again), otherwise its clear he is on 25 too.

    Cervelli was serviceable....that also means expendible.

    I would say its near 99.999% that Ortiz wont ever wear the pinstripes...not even in ESPN commercial or Halloween!
     
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  7. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Romine being up here is a mistake, one more year development with the bat he needs.....What about Montero in right? Any chance?
     
  8. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    If he was a linebacker I would say, he doesnt know how to drop his hips and he is not small enough to be a strong safety. Thank god its baseball and he can take a BAT with him on offense! And that equals basically a full time DH, or pinch hitter (which would be a shame so early in career). He is Edgar Martinez with more power - especially OPPO_TACO! But taking up DH daily, limits the freedom with Jeter (and possibly Teixiera) and Arod in the DH rotation.

    Romine as a #9 hitter is fine...and he may never grow into any other type of bat, but he is better defensively than Martin and Cervelli. So its a question of what type of Catcher you want every 5th day. Yanks offense can survive 8 +catcher.
     
  9. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't think Romine is ready. The only reason why he was up in the first place was being Frankie was out for the year. It was more of an emergency call up. I don't think it would make sense to have him sit on the MLB bench to be a back up catcher. He needs to play everyday.

    Montero with the stick is obviously ready. Montero with the glove might not ever be ready.
     
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  10. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I cant believe this guy wants more money for what?? What has he done to prove he deserve more money? Somebody answer me this question honestly?

    A
     
  11. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    I have a hard time seeing CC playing somewhere else. I think yankees keep him
     
  12. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ...
     
  13. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Honestly, cause he is a World Series winning MLB Pitcher, a Lefty, innings eater, top of the rotation arm, that properly negotiated for an out in his contract that gives him the right as a FA to explore the market. He is playing the system and both he and NYY agreed to the opt-out clause.

    Your problem might be that you think MLB player (any of them) - heck professional athletes in any sport - actually deserve and an have EARNED the money they are paid - as if they have ever proved to have been valued properly. And you HONESTLY can not believe he WANTS more money?

    Come on Fin, thats the easy part...we all WANT more money.
     
  14. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Bro I am about as big as a capitalist as you can be, I am all for making as much money as you can, that said I believe in market value as in weighing performance, versus worth to said company in this case the Yankees....

    Is he a big name sure, innings eater yup, an ace...yeah I guess but a low level one at that....he isn't Verlander, Felix etc...but to me a guy who is paid 23M RIGHT NOW and wants more, has to be an all out ace, locks it down in the regular season, and the playoffs....just because you negotiate a smart opt out doesn't automatically assume you get a raise, just because you were on a team that won a WS, doesnt mean you solely were the guy that made that happen.....consider the following stats.......

    In the past 3 years he is against the good teams.....(regular season)

    5-5/4.27 against Boston
    2-3/3.95 against Detroit
    2-6/3.69 against Tampa (not bad)
    3-0/4.26 against Texas (he is getting lucky)

    he dominates the bad teams like Min, Sea, KC, Balt etc like you know 20M+ dollar aces are expected to do.....he is your classic low level team dominator, who has alot of innings on him...

    now when the season turns to October and the playoffs come.....

    ALDS 4-0/4.18
    NLDS 0-1/12.27 (I give him a pass, that was the year Mil burned him out)
    ALCS 3-2/5.20
    WS 0-1/3.29

    for a whopping unace like 4.81....sooner or later the Jeff Karstens theory take over....

    The question you have to ask yourself is....is that worth 23+, is that a shut-down ace? This guy when you need him to come up big in big games, doesn't more than he does...

    He is now 31, with ALOT of innings on his body, and alot of weight on him too, he looked flat out fat by the end of the year....I have sever reservation in locking him up to a 7 year deal for 25M a year....which is what I am sure he will get from somebody namely NY....

    Why allocate that much money for one guy, when you have realistically 3 other legit holes in that rotation..why not use that money on say CJ, Edwin Jackson, Yu Darvish, make a trade for Danks maybe.....it is possible to get all 3 of those guys via FA.....their rotation would be better off...what is a better rotation?

    1) Wilson
    2) Jackson
    3) Nova
    4) Danks/AJ (pipedream yeah I know)
    5) Darvish/Hughes/one of the B's/AJ

    or...............

    1) CC
    2) Nova
    3) AJ
    4) Insert name here
    5) Insert name here

    I like CC, he is good guy, been a good soldier, and yes his best asset is the fact that he eats innings, but as you get on the wrong side of 30, that works against you....you want him at 38 for that money?

    Just food for thought, I am on the fence, I just hate the long contract especially with pitchers, I would tell him if he opts out the years stay, we will give you a raise, and oh yeah big boy here is a weight clause too....

    Remember BDH in the end Capitalism is all about the company, the workers have a right to get theirs, but the company always comes first, nobody is bigger than the product the company produces....
     
  15. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The one with CC and it isnt even close....seriously your argument has E. Jackson in it...end debate. And that doesnt even begin to mention your suggestion of over-hyped Yu Darvish and his price-tag! So the money you are protecting in your stance should go to Yu Darvish and not CC????

    You started this off by asking what CC has done....I contend, he successfully negotiated an opt-out clause that Yankees agreed to. What is there to concern yourself with over that?

    First no its not, its about supply and demand of the asset (physical or intangible). Also, this has nothing to do with capitalism. Its baseball. The similarity is not with the COMPANY, its always with the INDIVIDUAL smart enough, crafty enough, and in demand who best "plays" the game - athletically and at the negotiating table - always will be.

    Companies that think they are bigger than the services or product offered to the market collapse from bad Mgmt!
     
  16. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    What does that mean lol? So u craft an opt out, and now are guaranteed a raise, that reeks of entitlement....look the market determines the money....look at Puljois he most likely will not get 30 million a year, even though he absolutely should, based on his performance and that that other choke artist is getting 30 million....It is what it is....what do you think they should pay for him a year, give me a number? On a 4 year deal, I do 25 max.....you? Eff me on the years....I am not adding one more year, shop the market, get it somewhere else...you MIGHT find one team that would give him 5 years.....this opt out actually helps NY, if they lose CC, they would have close to 50M coming off the books....time for some hitters, like actual hitters....

    I find it humorous you contend that having a rotation with AJ Burnett as your number 3 starter is far better, is there some link? I would equally say end debate on that....AJ as the 3 haha yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh roll with that one bro....
     
  17. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    You just said what I have been saying, it entitles him to be FA. The FA market will decide about the raise, but asking for the raise is status quo since he can opt-out.

    And you think AJ as the 3 is WORSE than EJack as #2 says so much more. But you not seeing it doesnt surprise me really.:tongue2: Boston's thread is waiting for you to hob-nob on Lackey and the KFC crowd. Has anyone asked Yu if he likes fried chicken:lol:

    http://www.nesn.com/2011/10/yu-darvish-could-be-hot-commodity-during-mlb-offseason-but-red-sox-would-be-wise-to-steer-clear-of-j.html

     
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  18. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Dude at this point Edwin=Nova....

    Ohh great you are resorting to NESN articles to prove your point now :tongue2: I can see the Sox being gun shy on Darvish, because of Dice....but most scouts say he is futher along than Dice at the same point in their careers....not to mention, the posting fee isnt counted on the overall salary...as well, The Yankees have a big Asian following, and they seem to want back in that market....which could mean big bucks for them in the form of ticket sales

    very interesting times indeed.....
     
  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I would LOVE for Saux Nation to attach themselves to Yu.....relying on NESN is not the same as begging for them to move forward. :tongue2:
     
  20. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ....

    Good keep Hank away from it...
     
  21. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yankees ace CC Sabathia is widely expected to exercise his opt-out clause soon after the World Series, foregoing the final four years of his contract in search of an even larger payday. In today's Insider-only blog post, ESPN's Buster Olney spoke to Brian Peters, Sabathia's agent, about the situation....
    When asked if negotations about a new deal with New York have started, Peters replied: "As of today, I've got nothing new to report."

    Sabathia, 31, will be leaving $92MM on the table if he opts out. His ERA has gone down in each of his three seasons in New York (3.00 in 2011), and his strikeout (8.7 K/9) and walk (2.3 BB/9) rates this year were his best since 2008. Olney mentions that there was some concern in the Yankees organization about how the lefty's weight affected his command late in the season (4.30 ERA in his last nine starts), but there should be little concern about his durability; Sabathia has thrown at least 230 innings every year since 2007.
     
  22. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Which leads to this too, yeah granted CC will be a free agent, and can test the market, but the market just might work against him here....be careful what you wish for CC....I hold firm on the years, and mayyyyyyyybe 1M raise with a weight clause....

    You have to think realistically how many teama are going to be in the mix at 25M+.....just saying, the Yankees might be finding they are the only realistic suitors at that price....in other words, dont go overboard...
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Was this exact post posted in 2007 about Arod? The Yankees need CC more than CC needs them, they will most likely add on a few more years to the deal. I doubt he'll get more money per year but he'll get more years from them. I expect this to get done very privately and quickly unlike the Arod disaster.
     
  24. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Found this funny...In regards with Cliff Lee...Texas had/lost him, Yankees wanted him, Philadelphia wanted him and Texas is the only one still playing.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
     
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  25. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    [h=1]Cashman On Contract, Sabathia[/h]By Tim Dierkes [October 18, 2011 at 1:46pm CST]
    MLB.com's Bryan Hoch talked with Yankees GM Brian Cashman, who is conducting the team's professional scouting meetings this week.
    • Cashman's contract expires on October 31st, but he told Hoch, "It'll get done between now and October 31st, I'm sure. I can't promise, but I think that's what everybody expects. I know it's something that everybody has to follow. But that's not a pressing circumstance, as far as something I'm worried about right now." Cashman feels his deal can be hammered out over the phone.
    • "I'm sure we'll talk before the World Series is over," Cashman said in reference to C.C. Sabathia's contract situation. Sabathia is expected to opt out of the four years and $92MM remaining on the contract he signed in December of '08, but he hopes to re-sign.
    • Cashman said he's hopeful he has qualified people to take the place of Yankees executives Billy Eppler or Damon Oppenheimer if need be, as they have been granted permission to interview for the Angels' GM job. ESPN's Buster Olney tweeted Oppenheimer's resume today: he's a Southern California native with five World Series rings and one of the best drafts in history (2006). Click here to read Ben Nicholson-Smith's interview with Openheimer as part of our GM Candidates series.
     
  26. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Not worried about Yankee-ville....all things are lining up nicely. Enjoy the time off till the Hot Stove season!:up:
     
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  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Gag........................................me...................................

     
  28. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    This is just way to good....

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Did you guys see the report yesterday about how Giambi and Clemens used to drink on the bench when they were with the Yankees? I guess its not a big deal because they didn't eat fried chicken too.
     
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  30. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Note to Lackey, Beckett, Lester and the boys.....having Giambi and Clemens as your role models is no way to go through life!:tongue2:

    (then again, keep it up....loving it!)
     
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  31. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    what do you expect from to roid monsters......freaking Giambi had a good eye though, guy used to bat like .230 and have close to a .400 OBP...
     
  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    killing time...just for giggles!:tongue2:


    Offseason Outlook: New York Yankees


    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 24 at 10:55pm CST]
    The Yankees' offseason is all about their search for starting pitching, though they'll look to add bench help and a second left-handed reliever as well.
    Guaranteed Contracts

    Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)

    Contract Options

    • C.C. Sabathia, SP: can opt out of four years and $92MM remaining on current deal (Type A)
    • Nick Swisher, OF: $10.25MM club option with a $1MM buyout (Type A)
    • Robinson Cano, 2B: $14MM club option with a $2MM buyout (Type A)
    • Rafael Soriano, RP: $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout (Type A)
    Free Agents

    The success of the Yankees' offseason hinges on Brian Cashman's ability to build a strong rotation. Low-risk signings such as Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon helped the Yankees reach the postseason again in 2011, but Cashman will pursue bigger names this offseason. His starting point? A 97-win team that was among the best in baseball at scoring and preventing runs.

    Before the offseason starts in earnest, Cashman himself must sign a new contract. Once the sides sign the deal -- it could happen within the week -- Cashman will continue addressing the Yankees' needs.

    C.C. Sabathia
    will be a top target for the Yankees and it makes sense for them to pursue free agents C.J. Wilson and Yu Darvish along with the best starters on the trade market. The Yankees are rarely outbid for a player they truly want, so their chances of retaining Sabathia seem good (Sabathia's former teammate, Cliff Lee, is the exception to prove the rule).

    Retaining Sabathia will require an extended commitment in terms of years and dollars and the Yankees have some concerns about the left-hander's weight, but his numbers are tremendous. He has averaged more than 230 innings since joining the Bronx Bombers three seasons ago, with a 3.18 ERA, 8.0 K/9 and 2.6 BB/9 in that stretch. FanGraphs' version of wins above replacement suggests Sabathia has been baseball's fourth-best pitcher since signing his current contract. He's going to get paid and if the Yankees want him, they must be prepared to spend, even if they're wary of having too many aging stars on the team a few years from now.

    Darvish is an intriguing possibility because the Yankees need starting pitching and they have the resources to outbid the 29 other clubs. The last time the Yankees invested in a Japanese pitcher it didn't work out, but Kei Igawa's failure should push the Yankees to better understand the transition across the Pacific, not to shy away from Japanese pitchers with significantly greater upside than Igawa. If the Yankees are still negotiating with Sabathia when bids for Darvish are due, they'll have to place their bid at a time of great uncertainty.

    Wilson, who posted a 2.94 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 in 223 1/3 regular season innings for the Rangers before struggling in the playoffs, remains an appealing free agent option. He will cost a top draft pick and may not be a proven ace at the level of Sabathia and Lee, but Wilson stands out as one of the top options available. Edwin Jackson and Hiroki Kuroda are among the free agent alternatives to Wilson, but Jackson has been inconsistent and Kuroda appears to prefer Los Angeles to other possible destinations.

    Presently, the Yankees' rotation consists of Ivan Nova and A.J. Burnett. They may also count on Phil Hughes, but he will need to stay healthy and return to his 2010 form, manager Joe Girardi said. Otherwise, they'll need multiple starters this offseason, assuming they're not ready to turn starting roles over to Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos just yet. They could bring Garcia back to fill out the rotation, but another deal for Colon seems unlikely after he faded in the second half. Garcia, the Yankees' lone ranked free agent, could obtain an offer of arbitration if the Yankees are prepared to offer him a roster spot in 2012. Even if the Yankees aren't interested in bringing Garcia back, they could set up a handshake agreement and obtain the extra pick.

    The Yankees could pursue John Danks, Ricky Nolasco, Wandy Rodriguez and others if they become available on the trade market. In the unlikely event that Seattle takes offers for Felix Hernandez, the Yankees will call.

    If the Yankees turn to the trade market for pitching, Jesus Montero's name figures to come up constantly. Cashman has held onto Montero for this long and the powerful backstop is now ready for the Major Leagues, so a trade seems unlikely. However, the Yankees have a wealth of catching depth behind Russell Martin and could consider parting with Austin Romine or Francisco Cervelli.

    Longtime backstop Jorge Posada probably won't return after 22 years and five World Series titles with the Yankees organization. Montero will collect some of Posada's plate appearances at designated hitter and Girardi will rotate established players such as Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter into the DH role when they need rest. Red Sox fans probably don't have to lose too much sleep over the possibility of David Ortiz coming back to haunt them in pinstripes.

    The rest of the Yankees' lineup is essentially set for 2012, assuming they exercise Nick Swisher's option. There's no question that Robinson Cano's option will be exercised. The Yankees broke their own rules to extend Cano four offseasons ago, so they could consider another extension with the Scott Boras client. Curtis Granderson, who is also under team control through 2013, would be an extension candidate on most teams, but the Yankees will likely abide by team policy and wait until he hits the open market to start negotiating.

    The rest of Cashman's offseason will consist of finding a second left-hander for the bullpen and finalizing the bench. Andruw Jones could return as a fourth outfielder and right-handed bench bat. Eric Chavez also appears to be a fit for a bench job, if he decides against retirement.

    The Yankees won 97 games without a dominant rotation, so they know as well as any team that it can be done. But if Cashman's offseason goes according to plan, his top acquisitions won't be working under minor league contracts or battling for jobs in Spring Training. They'll be established pitchers who seem capable of leading the Yankees to their 17th playoff appearance in the last 18 years.
     
  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ...
     
  34. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    awesome stuff BDH, although JT needs to start another thread soon....
     
  35. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Also hearing Cano wants to do a long term deal.....as well...
     
  36. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    this is one of my alternatives to Swisher.....

     
  37. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Why do you want Beltran over Swisher????
     
  38. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Playoffs....

    Swisher (.169/.295./.323)

    Beltran (.366/.485/.817)

    it is just as simple as that, Beltran is healthy now, and is just a better all around hitter....

    NOW doesn't mean I sign him for 5 years, I try to get a 1 year deal with him, he isnt going to accept that after the year he had, but I would go 2 years on him...to play right field....

    I like Swisher as I have always said, but there are better options out there this free agency....
     
  39. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    not worth a long term deal...for $10M or less 1yr deal with HIGH risk...fine....but otherwise he isnt an upgrade over Swish for 1 more and then re-evaluating the market. Do not get bogged down with 35yr old oft-injured OF.

    .....moving to HotStove!
     

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