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***Official 2012-13 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Good move.
     
  2. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Loved Kuroda in L.A. McCourt is the reason he is no longer with us. The dude was solid and had no issues throwing AT Giants players and then staring them down. A true Dodger.
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    I tend to agree it'll be Niese though I really believe it should be Dickey since his value will never be higher. That said, there was a Niese for Carlos Santana rumor floated about a week ago in which case Im wondering whats taking Sandy so long to pull the trigger. I like Niese a lot but a top flight young catcher? Sign me up. Josh Thole sucks.

    Greinke is a better pitcher then Wilson. Hes also a lot more fragile. This was his first half season pitching in a big market and he didnt exactly light it up. For someone who has anxiety problems thats an alarming concern. As good as Greinke is, thats not a long term commitment I would make if I were a GM in NY, Boston or LA. He doesnt seem to handle pressure, scrutiny, or major media markets to well. This is the type of pitcher who gets a GM or manager fired if theyre on one of those teams with expectations imo.
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Greinke is more fragile based on what exactly? Are we still talking about the anxiety issue he had 6 years ago?

    And Greinke pitched fine in the 2nd half of the season with the Angels, especially in September/October when they were in tight race. Not sure what evidence says other wise. His high ERA in August? He had 2 bad starts sandwiched between 2 so-so starts followed by 6 good starts in a row. To me looking at those splits since he got to the Angels nothing tells me that he couldn't handle the pressure.

    As far as whether he can handle the big market pressures we really have no idea whether he can or not. Same can be said about any other player that's never played in them. I just think Greinke is unfairly judged/punished because he had an anxiety issue when he was 22 years old and again it was something that happened 6 years ago and hasn't happened since. Perhaps he truly can't handle the pressure but we really don't know that until he's in that market day in and day out. Hell, we had players who we thought would be fine in big markets fail, we just have no way of knowing until they are there. But I for one just don't feel comfortable saying he can't based one 1 incident that happened years ago.
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Good for TB to lock up Longoria until 2022 at his age 36 season.
     
  6. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    I like the deal but i dont know if they can afford him past 2017
     
  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Why not? And let's say they can't afford him past 2017, he'd be 30 years old with 5 years left on the deal, if his production is still at a high level he'd be easily moveable.

    The only negative about this deal that I can see if Longoria has had trouble staying healthy in his career. I'd worry those injuries would continue on as he gets older.
     
  8. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    20 million per is alot for any player with their payroll. I am glad to see them keep him they will have to up their payroll though. Perhaps the fans will actually start to go to the games who knows. Might be a good time to lock up Price as well.
     
  9. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Solid deal for TB......

    Refeshing to see a player say "hmmm I think I can survive on 16.6 a year" and stay at a place he enjoys playing at....win-win all around.....

    Helps with the Cano negotiations too....lol....
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'm thinking the Rays' thought process is that by the time Longoria is starting to make the bigger money their stadium issue will be resolved and either they will have a new stadium in Florida or will be relocated to a new market. But as far as fans starting to go to games, I can't see why they would start now just because Longoria is locked up for 9 more years.

    I'm sure Tampa is trying to lock up Price too.
     
  11. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Pettitte close to coming back to the Yankees. Ryan Madsen close to signing with the Angels. Mets make a contract extension offer to David Wright. Yay hot stove.
     
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  12. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    same money as Longo too 6/100.......hey that's the market right now....
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I bet Wright turns it down.
     
  14. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    me too....
     
  15. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Feldman signs with the Cubbies 1/6M....with a chance at 1M in incentives....
     
  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yawn.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    He wants more money then Cain (wants to be the highest paid righty) and yes hes fragile as glass. No way Id pursue him if I was a GM of a big market team with a rabid fanbase (NY, Bos, Philly etc).

    As for Wright he was offered 6/100 with a 7th year option and hes probably correct to turn it down. Thats the same money as Zimmerman who hes better then and its less then Longoria who hes typically been healthier then. If the damn Wilpons cant sign him and Dickey cause theyre too cheap or too broke they need to GTFO of town. Those two guys represent everything right with sports. They're never in trouble, they perform at the highest level, they lead on and off the field and they persevere. Wright should get something along the lines of the Beltran contract (7/120-130 ish) and thats still less then he'd get in FA.

    Dickey on the other hand said he would take less then Peavy got (2/28) which means probably around 2/24. If he wants more maybe its not a bad idea to look and see how badly KC wants a frontline pitcher. Supposedly they floated offers to Tampa (Shields) and Boston (Lester) for Wil Myers.
     
  18. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    How is he fragile as glass? Give me examples. I'm not saying you're right or wrong I just want actual examples to help support your point, not just speculation he is based off of a condition he had 6 years ago and at least publicly hasn't resurfaced.
     
  19. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I have to believe that if KC was offering Myers, one of those pitchers would be a Royal already.
     
  20. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    elitist.......all you want is the juicy stuff...
     
  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    According to Alex Spier and Rob Bradford (two of the best Sox reporters) they both said the Royals/Sox had conversations but nothing came out of it. Certainly you'd think TB given their offensive issues and with Shields starting to get expensive and close to being a FA would jump at that deal though. I think in the Red Sox case they probably need to know they have 2 other pitchers ready to step in if Lester is dealt. Their issue is SPing and that won't help them if they deal one of their better ones.

    I don't need juicy stuff but Scott Feldman doesn't really get my baseball juices going.
     
  22. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    Post season stats:
    K/9: Shrinks down to 7.02 from 8.03 regular season
    BABIP: goes up from 308 in regular season to 328 in postseason
    HR/9: Goes from .90 in regular season to 2.16
    LOB%: Goes from 72.5 regular season to 58%
    GB% : Goes from 41.9 to 39.3
    HR/FB% : Goes from 9.1 to 18.2
    ERA: Goes from 3.77 to 6.48
    FIP: 3.45 in regular season to 5.49 in postseason

    After coming over to Anaheim he was terrible in 5/14 starts (terrible meaning era over 5...you wouldnt want that in your rotation regularly. 4 of them were over 7). http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=1943&position=P

    Contractually speaking his WAR is typically pretty average for a high end SP: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1943&position=P

    Not ready to give someone with anxiety disorder a contract among the highest in baseball, highest among RHP (including Cain which is just crazy talk), when he shrinks in the postseason. Small sample sized be damned in this case.
    Not necessarily. As much as a lot of people like Myers, you and me included, it could be the type of deal that gets a GM fired. Myers hasnt had a single MLB at bat. Plenty of guys showed massive power in the minors and did nothing in the big leagues. And if Lester regained his form or if Shields finally got offensive support it could look embarrassingly bad.
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Sorry but you really want to totally dismiss a player as being fragile based off of a grand total of 3 post season starts? That's complete nonsense. Everyone is simply dismissing him because of the anxiety disorder. Again something he had over 6 years ago.

    I like how you cherry pick the 5+ ERA he had with the Angels in August yet don't mention the 2.11 ERA he had in September. Not to mention his last 8 starts with the Angels he was pretty damn good, if not outstanding in 7 of them. To me that doesn't show he can't handle the pressure of a big market. Plus his stat splits from the 1st half of 2012 and the 2nd half of 2012 are nearly the same across the board, again doesn't prove anything. His overall numbers with the Angels were fine, the problem was the games he lost he pitched very poorly perhaps it was adjusting to a new team, league or being tired, hurt or whatever. But you cannot say it was because he couldn't handle the pressure when he was so good in his last 8 starts, it just doesn't make sense. And just checking his 2011 splits, he was great in the 2nd half of that season, so again the whole pressure thing doesn't hold there either. There's simply no real evidence that he can't handle the pressure unless you want to base it off of 3 starts. If that's the case why not just throw more money at Barry Zito who had 4 good post season starts this year, because I guess that means he can handle the pressure right?

    Bottom line is if this was another pitcher who didn't publicly come out and say he had an aniexty disorder no one would be saying he's fragile or can't handle the pressure. It's because Grienke came out and admitted it he gets unfairly treated and judged. There is zero evidence he can or can't handle the pressure of playing in a big market, the same way we don't know if Player A can either if he never had before. And again I'm not saying people saying he can't handle the pressure are right or wrong, all I'm saying is we simply don't know if he can or not because there's no real strong evidence to show either side.
     
  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    I never brought up his august or september. I pointed out that he had 5 bad starts out of 14. He had 3 starts, in 2 different postseasons and bombed. Im dismissing him based on the fact he didnt pitch well in LAA in 5 out of his 14 starts (roughly 35%) and he wants a massive contract, that he hasnt done well in the postseason and that he has an anxiety disorder.

    Zito doesnt have Greinke's ability but yes he can handle pressure. Hes done it a few times. Hes had a bad postseason or two but hes been there consistently and done more good then bad. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zitoba01.shtml
    Per rotoworld:

    CBS Sports' Danny Knobler reports that the Angels are unlikely to re-sign free agent Zack Greinke.
    Greinke is thought to be seeking the largest contract ever handed out to a right-handed pitcher, and the Angels apparently now want no part. The Dodgers have major interest and the Rangers are reportedly in the hunt. Greinke, 29, had a 3.48 ERA and 200/54 K/BB ratio in 212 1/3 innings this year between Milwaukee and Anaheim.

    On a different note, per Ken Rosenthal and Rotoworld:

    According to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal, the Mets have offered third baseman David Wright a contract extension worth between $135-145 million over eight years.
    But that offer includes Wright's $16 million salary for the 2013 season, which is already locked in. So the new extension would essentially give the 29-year-old third baseman seven more guaranteed years at between $119-$129 million. Wright is doubtful to do better on the open market and seems likely to accept the massive proposal. Unless he really wants out of New York.

    Lastly, Phillies Carlos Ruiz suspended 25 games for amphetamines.
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    All Grienke's bad starts were in August though. He then ran off 8 very good starts, 7 of them were great, to close out the season. So again how is Grienke not able to handle the pressure if he pitched great to end the season? When the Angels had their backs to the wall he stepped up. There's no evidence there. Even so is 14 starts enough to truly measure where a pitcher can handle the pressure? I still think it's way too small of a sample.

    And Grienke has only pitched in 1 post season in 2011, 2 separate rounds but only 1 post season. Again if you want to hang your hat on 3 starts so be it but I think it's extremely silly.

    As far as Zito goes, I think you missed my point about small sample sizes. Zito was good in his 3 starts this post season but has sucked in the previous 6 ML seasons (last time Zito was a good MLB pitcher was when Grienke had his mental issues). Again just showing you how basing someone on 3 (random) starts just isn't a good measure of ability to handle pressure.
     
  26. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Rays have plenty of starting pitching they can easily lose Shields for someone like Myers AND lower payroll.. Would seem a no brainer. They need someone in that lineup besides Longoria.
     
  27. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    The talk of the money Greinke is seeking is crazy! I can only imagine Kershaw and Felix are paying close attention to it. The Dodgers would be smart to extend Kershaw NOW before Greinke sets the market even higher..
     
  28. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    So the Braves inked B.J Upton. I like it. He's only 27, and has increased his HR total virtually every year he's been in the league.
     
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  29. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tell us the contract they agreed to. Please.
     
  30. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    5 years 80 mil is what I read. Hearing 75 also.
     
  31. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    areuserious.jpg
     
  32. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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  33. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Safe to say that's the most anyone has paid for a B.J.
     
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  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Kind of crazy to think Upton is only 27 years old. Seems like he's been in the league for 10 years now.

    EDIT: And holy crap it's been 8.
     
  35. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    I was thinking the something. I saw the deal and said that's a lot for a 32 year old lol. Seems like he's been around forever.
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It's kind of crazy both him and his brother were both 1st round high picks (Justin #1, BJ #2), both in the league at age 19 and both have been seen as a bit of underachieving never living up to their talents. Perhaps the hype was just so big on both guys. In a way they kind of remind me of JD and Stephen Drew.
     
  37. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Well thats the market next year for Granderson...ummmmmmmm hahahahahahahah

    seeeee yaaaaaa
     
  38. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Gotta spend money to make money, boys.

    Easily the most the Braves have ever spent on a Free Agent.
     
  39. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nationals trade for Denard Span. Bastards.
     
  40. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yankees resign Rivera. Terms are 1 year, 10 million.
     
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