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**Official Franchise Expansion Game Thread**

Discussion in '2012 GM League Forum' started by schisno, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I for one didn't draft or sign anyone based on filling each position. That wasnt my goal anyways.
     
  2. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Seems lime the majority did it that way which makes sense. Its hard to draft according to BPA because its pretty much a wash after round 3.
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly. It's an expansion draft so it's not going to be a bevy of talent available and the players available will be available for a reason be it salary concerns, underachievement or otherwise. So to me BPA was the way to go.
     
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  4. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Was that your strategy when we only had 1 draft pick?
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I haven't looked to see what anyone else did yet, so I've got some reading to do to get in on this conversation.
     
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You have a goofy f----ng name is all u need to know.
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Hey, I didn't give Pahrump its name...... but it is kinda funny.
     
  8. schisno

    schisno Well-Known Member

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    I think Skeets is the only one not in yet, anyone know if he's going to post a short write up tonight?
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes. I never had the intention to try and fill every hole because I knew paul would also pick some of the decent players available
     
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  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I think everyone put together a pretty decent team...




















    ..besides TOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD!!!
     
  11. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I was gonna offer up a 7th round pick for Tony Pashos...

    but then VO voted for E and my generosity melted. :shifty:
     
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  12. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    FWIW, I liked how you put your team together, but I felt like the Manning pick was the best pick of the entire draft (not just your team, but overall). If it works out, then the team has short term success and probably challenges for a playoff spot next year. If it doesn't, then the team tanks and they're drafting in the Top 5 with some top QB choices likely available. It's a win win.

    Had I been playing I probably would have taken your approach, though I would have drafted Pashos over the Ts you chose, obviously.
     
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  13. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I am working on my votes tonight. I'll be honest, Griddles has a damn good head coach, going to be tough for me to vote for anyone else :shifty:
     
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  14. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I think he will get the most out of the players with his SICK personality.

    The defense coordinator has been a disappointment thus far though. :pity:
     
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  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm not sure why everyone is thanking this post...... unless ya'll are only thinking of yourselves and the first half of the sentence. :pity:




















    :tongue2:
     
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  16. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I forgot to mention a big part of my draft strategy.

    With a handful of talented, expensive corners available, I knew I could wait till the end of the draft to get a pair of studs, leaving me able to pick exactly who I wanted in the early rounds instead.... and then swoop up Hall & either Routt or Asante with my last few picks.

    I didn't take Manning b/c I wasn't sure if I could get the Oline capable of protecting him first and foremost (since he doesn't have the mobility to create on his own), and a Peyton coming off this kind of surgery and recovery behind a weak Oline is probably an apprehensive, inconsistent, and even scared Peyton Manning.
     
  17. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    There is a reason no one selected Manning. A QB with questionable health on an expansion team is very risky.
     
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  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    especially at his cost.








    PS: congratulations ya putz. :knucks:
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I think Odin did a nice job assessing this and I greatly appreciate the time you took evaluating the teams.



    I have a few tiny assessments of your assessment :lol: :

    First, it seems like you might be judging us a hair too much on how you, yourself, would've done a franchise team rather than how we did it based on the organization we wanted to become. If I took your route based on my philosophy, I would've been worse off TBH. There's more than one way to win a SB, so I felt I should've been judged more on my approach and how well I followed through on it etc rather than what approach you felt I should've taken. If you feel I should've built a team around my QB and feel that establishing locker room presence & character isn't a priority, and I knew in advance that's what you would judge me on, then I would've built the team with the vision you had in mind instead, and then you could've judged me on how well I built the team off your vision rather than my own. Just sayin.

    For instance, I personally wanted to build up my defense b/c that's how I felt I could be the most successful, but it seems like I'm being penalized for not taking one of those mid round developmental QBs who would've caused me to be even less successful b/c they didn't fit what I wanted, and I don't understand this notion that a mid round QB will make me a better team in 2013 than a player who will actually see the field in special teams and future starter, and there was no way I was taking Foles (a QB who doesn't fit my system) over the future starting WOLB (Irvin) of a team I'm initially building around defense. I'd dock points if I did that. So in essence, taking that mid round QB like you wanted would've made me a worse team and set me back a year at the critical 34 WOLB position, which IMO makes little sense when the future of my offense will revolve around the QB I select next year. If we're being realistic here, we're not running an organization with 23 players, and I CLEARLY stated that I'll bring in a stop gap veteran to make me MORE competitive in 2012 than any rookie QB would, b/c in the NFL this is exactly what happens with teams on a yearly basis.

    If I knew we were going to be judged on one year and with the QB position as the main priority (even if he's a 5 year developmental guy), then I would've built my team around a QB I didn't want, with personnel suited to him that I didn't want, and in an offense I didn't want to run, all the while detracting from the defense I did want to run, with the players available I wanted to run it with, and in the sheme I wanted to play them in. Outside of a healthy Manning, none of those QBs available (draft or FA) are going to lead an expansion team to a successful 2012 season, and I made it clear that my approach was a multi-year one rather than aiming for 5-6 wins and calling it a success. The only QB I wanted was BJ Coleman, but he was off the board before my 5th selection, and there was no way I was over-drafting him by almost a round just so I'd have a 3rd string/future backup QB on my roster who'll likely sit the bench for 10 years.

    If I knew a 3rd string QB would determine my fate rather than a starting defense built to become dominant for years to come, then I would've sacrificed my defense for the bench sitter who won't even see special teams.


    If anything, I'd think a team should get some credit for sticking to their game plan and not falling into the trap of either over-drafting a QB (out of fear) or picking one for the sake of taking one who may not fit their system, especially if it's at the expense of a more talented player who will see more early playing time. TBH, if you were running my team and you did that (took a developmental 3rd string QB over a future starter or impact player at a position of need), I would've docked you points for it. How would you grade the Steelers if they did this? Would you penalize them for passing on the WOLB (Irvin) who they had their eye set on from the day the expansion took place so they could instead take their future backup QB? Would you penalize them for taking a potential 3rd string QB over a once regarded top 10 talent pass rusher when they currently have 2 rookies drafted ahead of him on the roster? Would you penalize them for taking a 6th round practice squad QB over the 73rd ranked player on Bunting's big board who embodies every "Steeler" that you look for? Honestly.
     
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  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm also not sure about the "character over physical talent" thing that you ultimately used to critically determine my fate b/c all the guys I drafted were loaded with physical talent, and so were most of my FA guys, so I'm not understanding why I'm being penalized for making sure a handful of these guys also exuded high character. Since when is it a bad thing to have both physical talent AND character? Should I have stuck to physical talent only and no character? :tongue2:


    *Andre Branch? higher rated BECAUSE of physical talent despite developmental.
    *Poe? been compared to Haloti Ngata.
    *Kendall Reyes? been compared to Richard Seymour. potential 1st rounder after physically menacing the best Senior Bowl North linemen.
    *Bruce Irvin? Is compared to Von Miller talent wise. Is that not enough physical talent?
    *Ronnie Hillman? tons of physical talent as a 190lb COP back. NCAA ranked 10th in both rushing yards & rush TDs as a freshman... and 7th in yards & TDs as a 2011 sophomore. Cmon now.
    *Paige-Moss? once thought of top 10 pick whom I drafted BECAUSE of his physical talent?
    *6th round Demario Davis? Wes Bunting's now 73rd ranked player on his big board who jumps off the film at you?

    None of my draft picks were the proverbial "safe" pick. Not one. They're all physically talented, high-upside guys.


    With utmost respect, my defense is comprised of nothing but talent which follows suit of attempting to build a physical, nasty, Steeler-type team.
    Besides the above 4 defensive starters and 2 depth guys (which I wanted far and above any 3rd string QB):

    *Ray McDonald? outstanding physical talent.
    *Daryl Washington? do they get more physically talented?
    *Keith Rivers? was a high 1st round pick b/c of his talent.
    *DeAngelo Hall? high 1st round pick b/c of tremendous natural talent.
    *Asher Allen? Quality physically talented young 2009 3rd round pick that I grabbed in the 10th round, but you're giving me a hard time about Casey?
    *Danieal Manning? His physical talent is what got him drafted out of Abilene Christian, plus he returns kicks.
    *Charles Klug? 7 sacks as a rookie? That's not physical talent as a nickel pass rusher?
    Routt?


    So I'm really not sure how I'm getting penalized for supposedly "sacrificing physical talent" for character b/c it couldn't be further from the truth. It's not like a drafted a team of Matt Roths. If fact, there's not a Matt Roth type less physically gifted overachiever on my defense. My only Matt Roths are on Oline.

    If you want to say Casey is a bad pick at #5, then I'll have to disagree with you b/c my number one priority as a new franchise was to create a specific locker room presence and have someone of elite character, community contribution, and unmatched work ethic to set the tone for the team regardless of what position he played, and considering he's one of the few offensive skill players I felt fit the modernized Corryel offense I wanted to run, I wasn't going to miss out on him. To you it was a reach; to me it was a calculated decision and a necessity to ensure I didn't lose him..... so to penalize me for that is somewhat folly IMO.

    You said I could've gotten Casey later on, but honestly, tell me where I hurt myself in my last 5 picks with DeAngelo Hall, Asher Allen, Garrett Reynolds, Danieal Manning, and Stanford Routt. That's a starting guard and the makings of one of the league's better secondaries, so how does that penalize me? IMO, and I might be biased here, but that's the best 5 last picks of the FA draft, so how did I lose out by taking Casey 5th? Should I have taken Routt in the 5th and Casey 15th? Still the same roster, no? lol. Do you not like the overall talent of my FA draft and execution based on my vision?


    TBH, I almost feel like you didn't consider my philosophy or vision, because when is it a bad thing to want to become a Steelers type team full of character and solid locker room presence, all while having the ability to use a high 2013 pick on a true franchise QB and subsequently building an offense around THAT guy after knowing exactly what you have at QB rather than me blindly throwing darts at players whom I don't know will even fit the QB I draft? With that in mind, what could I have done differently to better become the Steeler type team I wanted to become?
     
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  21. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You do realize that just because we had limited roster spots we were STILL drafting 6th and 7th round players? Me picking Russel Wilson in the 6th is a calculated risk, and the chances of me missing out on a great playmaker because i selected him makes litle sense imo.
     
  22. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    I am a GM...and..I did.... :)

    He's not just a quarterback he's one of the greatest QBs of all time. To not take a chance on a guy like this who is reported to be ions ahead of schedule on his recovery is risky IMO. Asl The Saints what taking a chance on Brees did for them.
     
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  23. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I spologize for the mishap sir. I was too busy watching Lin dominate the Heat.
     
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  24. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    you will wake up...anytime...now...
     
  25. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Its not my fault the refs cost NY the game.
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    What you do out of your own reasoning etc is unrelated to what I wanted to do based on my own reasoning and vision for my team. What's good for you might be terrible for me since scheme is extremely important.

    I liked 6th round Demario Davis so much that I even expressed in my write up that I made sure to add 50 more players to the bottom of the draft board just so I could draft him, yet I'm being penalized for taking a guy I like a ton over some random QB I personally could care less about? Sorry, I don't agree with that. The other judges can fail me, too, and I'll keep drafting him every time.

    Ditto goes for the 5th round with Paige Moss--- not a QB on the board I like enough as a major developmental prospect, 4-year-down-the-road-backup that I felt would help me more in my desire to become a Steeler type team than Paige Moss.

    The only QB I wanted and was ready to take was BJ Coleman, but he was gone just before my 4th round pick, and there was no way in heck I was over-drafting a major project backup QB in the 3rd round at the expense of WOLB Bruce Irvin whom I wanted from the second I decided to become a Steeler type team.

    Ditto applies to my 2nd rounder b/c the last thing I'm doing is spending a high pick on a QB that doesn't excite me based on my vision.... and I'm not drafting a 2nd round QB just for the sake of "pleasing the judges".

    That leaves the #33 pick, my starting point. I shouldn't be penalized for not taking Weeden or Andre the Giant, neither of whom I wanted with my franchise's ALL TIME FIRST PICK, ya putz. I even explained in my write-up that in a real draft I would've either traded up my 1st pick for Tannehill.... or I would've traded up my 4th for BJ Coleman.

    If my vision is to become a Steeler team built on physical defense, then I'm setting that tone in the draft with my first pick so my entire organization and fan base knows "this is who we intend to become" rather than drafting Weeden, sending out mixed messages, and delaying my defense oriented team from taking place.
     
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  27. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok but there is a MAJOR distinction here:
    Team A is the Dolphins or Saints who need(ed) that QB to get over the hump
    Team B is an un-established expansion franchise who hasnt even gotten off the ground yet. For every Carolina Panthers you bring up, I have the Texans, Browns, and Jaguars who were all pitiful their first few years.

    So there you are with a 36 year old QB who has MAYBE a 2-3 year window at best and talking about trying to build a title contender within such a short frame when theres no precedent in any of the 4 major sports for an expansion franchise to win a championship within their first 5 years. Thats not to say it will never or cant be done but its such a difficult task to accomplish that literally if you count up the number expansions the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB have done you would literally be 0 for like 80 teams.

    Not to pick on you E but since you brought it up....this is literally the biggest flaw in a draft like this. You drafted Peyton Manning when in fact you have no chance of ever winning squat with him. Thereby you also set back the actual building process for your franchise by that time frame + the amount of time it takes to shed all those "win now contracts" off your books because lets face it, if you signed Manning, youre going for it all and youre going to hand out some contracts that seemed like a good idea at the time but not so much in a year or two.

    This is just IMO but an expansion team that picked a 36 year old QB and is literally picking from other teams bad contracts, underachievers, and other assorted crud is fooling themselves with this line of thinking. To me the hardest part about this draft is dissecting the players who can be or have been a part of winning environments. This was never about fielding a starting lineup, this was about talent accumulation and building a franchise and thats an extraordinary tough task with an established team that has an identity and has some pieces but to do that with an expansion team, you literally afford yourself no leeway to do so much as miss on a single draft pick which you know will happen because it happens to literally every GM...even Alen.
     
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  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    What your saying makes sense, but to assume any player in that round is an all pro in waiting but the QB is an automatic 3rd stringer? Bad analysis.

    Now I have no issue with your philosophy as much as I do with your assessment of available 6th and 7th round position players as opposed to a 6th or 7th rd QB.
     
  29. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I agree. TBH, when I looked at the draft, for me it was overwhelmingly skewed toward the defensive side of the ball based both on what I wanted to run scheme-wise and the type of team I wanted to become.


    Seriously. Much better starting defensive talent than offensive in the FA draft (based on what I wanted to do), especially at CB.... and ILB (Washington), 34 LDE (McDonald), 1st round talented Rivers, and a stud nickel pass rusher in Klug...... and then in the draft I was fortunate enough to have Poe fall to my 2nd round pick. There was outstanding 34 DE talent who might end up being 1st rounders. Plus there was a few upside "+" talent OLB prospects at exactly the spots I was picking, one of whom is a potential first rounder, the other is compared to Von Miller in talent, and the last was once considered a top 10 pick.

    As a new 34 defense with hopes of becoming dominant, how do you pass up on all that when your defense is already the closest thing to being your team strength? So for me, I took what I felt was BPA, too, which fortunately for me happened to be guys I wanted and fit my D rather than drafting the offensive side simply to fill holes. I'd stab my eyes out if I ignored all that to take offensive guys I was less adamant about (not b/c they're bad players but b/c I just didn't like them for my scheme). The ONLY time I passed on an offensive guy I wanted was in the 4th round when I took a RB over Joe Adams.
     
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  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If he doesn't fit my offensive scheme he's a 3rd stringer...... so..... Good analysis. :tongue2:

    I never said the player is an All-Pro in waiting. I said there's no reason I should be penalized for taking a player I very much wanted instead of a likely 3rd stringer I didn't want. In a real franchise, you're taking the guy you want, especially if he's a 7th rounder, and then you're adding a rookie QB in FA.

    I don't have an issue with your assessment of 6th or 7th round QBs; I just didn't see one I liked based on what I wanted to do, and I'm not gonna feel my entire franchise's beginning was an utter failure just b/c I missed out on some 6th or 7th round QB who's gonna sit the bench behind my 2013 franchise QB and his veteran backup b/c I'm certainly not fielding a team in 2013 comprised of a rookie and a 2nd year late round pick. If I felt there was a QB worth taking who fits my offense, then I would've taken him. But like I said, the only QB I wanted was BJ Coleman and I even sent Schis a PM telling him that IIRC.

    All that said, I don't have a problem with Russell Wilson. That was a good pick and one I would've made if Davis weren't available. Just b/c Davis was my favorite late round player and I like him immensely, it doesn't mean I think he's a pro-bowler. He could be nothing more than an outstanding ST'er and my desire to draft him wouldn't change.
     
  31. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Gravy.
     
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  32. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    buttercream
     
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  33. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    For those of you who wondered why I voted the way I did, I updated my OP in the voting thread with my Expansion Draft analysis. Because these players are going to have the largest impact on your team, it weighed more heavy than rookies or FA in evaluating your teams.

    And it's fun. So go look at it. And stuff.
     
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  34. Mach

    Mach Cap Dude

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    And then complain so I can use my funny gifs.
     
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  35. schisno

    schisno Well-Known Member

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    I think Odin really did one of the most impressive write ups I've seen, especially one for voting. It's going to be close here for a couple games, just waiting for another vote or two, then we'll move onto the second round.
     
  36. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Thanks VO and to anyone voting on this. We appreciate the time you took to look at this.
     
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  37. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    You still suck, IMO.

    :tongue2:
     
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  38. Mach

    Mach Cap Dude

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    And he's still stuck with Tony Pashos.

    [​IMG]
     
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  39. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I agree he has you over me still :lol:
     
  40. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Again purely here say and opinion. But honestly all this is just theory based anyways. A Healthy Manning can get you to the playoffs annually. And again in a league where a team can change in a year whos to say a couple of drafts later and key free agents come to town. Its all about building blocks, IMO.
     

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