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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by alen1, Mar 25, 2008.
By the way, Paige has become quite the train wreck huh?
I actually don't think he ever comes back, but can you imagine the pop if he did? If they could keep it a secret until the music hit, the place would erupt.
Over/under on Goldberg Intro length, 9:59.
I tend to agree with you that I can't see him ever coming back either.
Money talks, maybe 2K will close the gap between Punk and WWE just like they did with Goldberg and Vince. I think ans hope he returns one day, the amount of money to be had on both sides is too good to turn down.
If he comes back id hope its on a Royal rumble.
missed this post.. and yes... i fear for her mental and physical health.. shes not all togethee up there..
Coke is a hell of a drug.... allegedly.
That Brock and Heyman promo was so nothing.. all that hyped build up for nothing..
And now theyre going to oversaturate it some more with a goodberg appearance next week..
Also, can we end the jericho list bit already..
Could not disagree more. The list is a perfect little thing for Jericho and he has completely re-invented himself AGAYN. He is one of the best of all-time. Right up there with HBK, Flair and Austin. The dude can do everything well, and I applaud this latest run that has spanned almost the entire year, at this point.
The Brock/Heyman segment was bizarre. Heyman seemed really off. Tripped on his words and seemed to get lost at times out there. Unless he was trying to convey that he was flustered, but even so, he didn't do a great job as it just looked like he finally showed a chink in his substantial promo armor.
Also, am I the only one who is really enjoying Dana Brooke as a performer? She seems to do a lot of subtle things, really well. Classic heel promos, perfect second for Charlotte with her facial expressions and reactions to what is being said around her. She is the perfect foil for Bayley right now.
Same goes for Bo Dallas's new incarnation, Sheamus/Cesaro, and Seth Rollins' face turn.
Solid Raw, all the way around.
I actually think Jericho is more diverse than either Flair. Flair seemed to play the same character no matter whether he was a face or heel and never really changed. But yeah you're point remains that Jericho is definitely one of the best all time. His run this year has been pretty great especially considering how stale his runs had been since 2009ish. Jericho is the best thing about RAW each week right now.
I don't get the WWE's handling of Anderson and Gallows. They basically killed off any buzz the guys had coming in and now they're just wrestlers not instead of being viewed as special. Maybe it's because Vince doesn't get them but just seems strange how quickly they have fallen.
I legit think the writers were expecting the crowd to chant Goldberg and Heyman would work with that.. but instead they were chanting Suplex City and Goldberg sucks. And that killed the script..
Weren't they in Minnesota last night? I wonder why they would think Brock's hometown would turn on him for Goldberg.
Jericho is absolutely more diverse than Flair. I just meant in the pantheon of all-time greats, Jericho has cemented his legacy as one of them, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind seeing him get one more token run just to hammer that point home even further. Even if he were to lose it quickly to someone like Roman Reigns or whoever. He deserves a proper send off when the time comes.
As for Anderson/Gallows. I think they miscalculated when they split them from AJ Styles. I actually think it could be an interesting storyline to have Anderson/Gallows lose to Enzo/Cass, and then ultimately cost Team RAW the tag team Survivor Series match, and maybe even help AJ Styles either retain his title, or help Team SD! win their Main Event SS match by helping Styles. Create some friction between them and the rest of the RAW roster, which could help put heat on them. Then, you can either trade them to SD Live (maybe Breezeango and a singles wrestler to be named later?) and have them re-join as AJ's muscle. It does two things, really, it bolsters the SD Tag Team division, which really only has two quality teams in The Usos and American Alpha, puts additional heat on AJ for needing his friends to be successful, and gives them the rub with being part of The Club, once again.
I honestly have zero idea why anyone would think that Brock would be chosen 2nd over Goldberg while in Minnesota. Apparently Vince blew a gasket and killed the segment abruptly, hence the awkward end to the promo.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see Jericho get a run with the title too. Owens isn't setting the world on fire and it seems like the WWE wants to keep Rollins away from the belt so he can face Triple H at WM so it might make sense to do a Jericho/Owens feud. Which was the original plans before Balor got hurt.
Right now I don't want Gallows and Anderson anywhere near Styles. They're that damaged right now that I think it would hurt AJ being with them.
Survivor Series is in Toronto and WCW has never had a strong hold there. There's no way Brock is getting booed at Survivor Series over Goldberg. The whole thing is just a mess and it really shows just how out of touch Vince is sometimes. And why announce the Brock/Goldberg match on Twitter? They just should have done it on RAW this week or next.
Honest question is anyone excited at the HiTC PPV on Sunday? There just seems to be zero buzz about it and the Cell matches outside of Rusev/Reigns really don't make sense as to why they're being put into the cell.
This brand split has been a big mess.
I disagree about the brand split being a mess. I actually think it is a very good thing. It started off extremely rough and I thought they were headed towards the same issues as before, but they seem to have righted the ship and are playing within their own set rules, which is nice. More people are getting opportunities and some are even revitalizing their careers (Usos come to mind). It isn't perfect, but I enjoy the product, quite a bit.
The Commissioner/GM roles are still badly defined. Foley and Steph seems to be redundant, in many ways, whereas Daniel Bryan is sort of more defined on SD. Weird dynamics there.
I would still like to see an open season for trades (my thought is SS to RR is the perfect time to add, change, trade people), and I think there is some truth to wrestling fatigue by Tuesday Night, but overall, the in-ring product is MUCH better now with the brand split, and I think they have done a good job with keeping their original titles (IC, World, US, WWE Tag, RAW Women's) relevant. The new titles need some work, but you need time to establish them.
As for Goldberg/Lesnar: Goldberg will be the heel. Remember that he also ended Bret's (a Canadian) career and Lesnar is now a resident of Canada. The match is going to be a spectacle and I believe they are banking on the crowd being hot for it, whatever that reaction may be. It absolutely should not be the Main Event of SS.
HitC is just kind of blah. The whole point of that match was to be the absolute blow off to a feud and was supposed to be called upon to settle the ultimate score. The fact that it is a scheduled event as a PPV, sort of forces rivalries that don't need the cell, to have one. And having three matches certainly takes away from the specialness. Out of the three, the only one that seems worthy is actually the women, ironically. And part of that is the bizarro factor of having women in that match. Owens-Rollins and Rusev-Reigns don't seem like HitC worthy match-ups right now.
I'll be honest, I'm totally burned out from the current product. I haven't really watched Smackdown outside of the PPVs although I missed all of No Mercy except the awesome WWE title match. I still catch RAW but never the whole thing.
You're completely right about them having trades. I mean Swagger was on RAW and there was a brief mention of his contract ending soon and then the next night he's on Smackdown, why not just make a trade? Or last RAW why not just have Stephanie tell Jericho if he doesn't wrestle she'll fire him and him make a comment like that's fine I'll just show up on Smackdown tomorrow only to have Foley say nah we'll just suspend you then.
I forgot about the Bret/Goldberg issue. Yeah there's no way Goldberg will be cheered in Canada in a WWE ring. I think the match will be similar to their WM20 match only with Brock winning. I don't think it's going to be a good match but it's going to be an event which is what the WWE is hoping for.
There's actual talk of the women's match main eventing the PPV. With HiTC being a C level PPV why not?
I also agree that just being the PPV is named HiTC the WWE needs to shoe horn matches in the cell. I actually wish Bischoff became a GM of Smackdown and changed all their separate brand PPVs into old WCW named events like Starrcade, Halloween Havoc, Superbrawl, etc. Then the WWE announcers can plug those old PPVs to see on the Network but instead we get great PPVs names like Fast Lane, HiTC, TLC etc.
Im looking forwaed to seth and KO.. but i think the match to watch is for sure reigns vs rusev.. that one will be bloody and physical..
Btw whats going on in smackdown lol i forgot about that show's existence...
Yeah I don't think so. But it should be a good hard hitting match.
Oh man, that would have been a great idea. Although, I think the stigma of WCW being a failure overall, would probably hurt the Smackdown brand, if they had their old leader AND PPV names, so I get why they wouldn't do that.
Was thinking of having us all do a post about what we would do if we were legit in charge of WWE. Meaning, creatively, strategically, and presentation wise.
I totally get and understand why they will never use WCW names for PPVs because of the failure stink and WCW has been dead for 15 years but I guess I just wish they had better names for the PPVs. I'm glad they're bringing back some of the older WWE ones like No Mercy but most of the names I just hate.
As far as what I'd do in a nutshell I would make RAW the entertainment brand and Smackdown the wrestling brand and my rosters would showcase that and I wouldn't be shy about promoting it that way. I'd put all the women on RAW and all the cruiserweights on Smackdown. My RAW roster would feature the Roman Reigns/Bray Wyatts/Mizs of the WWE aka guys that maybe aren't the best in the ring but are there for entertainment and Smackdown would be the AJ Styles/Cesaro guys that can go but maybe are lacking the mike skills. The sets would be completely different and revamped. Smackdown's set would be very simple in design, think old school RAW before the titantron with no ramp mixed with the first Smackdown set, because again the focus of the brand is "wrestling". RAW's set I guess would be similar to what they have now but more toned down and not a million different video screens. Smackdown's announce team would be at ringside and RAWs would be at the top of the ramp.
I would make the non big 4 PPVs about 2 hours long and feature just wrestling, no in ring interviews or segments to kill time, which means that they don't have to put every guy on the roster on the card. The wrestlers will have to earn their spot.
I would also allow for there being an open season for trading and each wrestler's contract with their brand would expire the week after WM, unless you're a champion then you have to stay on that brand, the whole rosters would be on both RAW and Smackdown that week. That way it leads to uncertainty on who's going to jump where, you can have wrestlers openly interact with the GMs of the brands that week and it gives the WWE an excuse to shuffle the rosters without having to do a new draft each year. Plus the WWE can announce signings on their website, Network or Twitter.
As far as creatively, I would hire 1 head writer with maybe 2 assistants for each brand and the agents of the brand of ex wrestlers giving their ideas and thoughts. No more 30 man writing teams. I'd also have them come up with long term plans for 6 months at a time like they did in the old days and work backwards so from WM to Summer Slam then back to WM. Make those two shows the Superbowls of the WWE and really try to build up Summer Slam as big of a deal as WM.
I would also try new things with the monthly PPVs and have themes. Like October have the set look like Halloween. The PPV in July have it outside in a smaller venue or have it as a beach/summer theme. WCW was great at doing that stuff. The December PPV have the set look like winter and snow. Get rid of stupid PPV names.
I'd expand the dual PPVs to 5, adding King of the Ring in June with the winner getting a World title shot at Summer Slam. The Survivor Series would be like the old school Survivor Series with just elimination tag team matches and two World Title matches. I'd also consider having the September or October PPV of one of the brands feature the Elimination Chamber match with the winner getting a title shot at the Survivor Series. The other brand would have the MiTB match with the winner being able to cash in at any time (much like it is now) but the added twist that it doesn't matter which brand but I wouldn't ever say it and I would have the wrestler for example from RAW who cashes it in cash it in on the champion from Smackdown and thus wanting to bring it back the title back to RAW only the ruling would be he's now on the Smackdown roster and thus RAW loses that wrestler. Maybe have a PPV similar to WCW's old Lethal Lottery battle bowl which would feature random guys being put in a tag team tournament and at the end all the teams that one get put in a Battle Royal with the winner getting a title shot at Royal Rumble or getting the #30 spot at the Rumble. Just little things to freshen things up.
You're on the clock now my friend....
Two WCW ppv names im all for bringing back are Starcade and Halloween Havoc.
There's history with The Great American Bash and the WWE actually had a few PPVs named that, and with them bringing back Clash of Champions it's possible that name could be used again. I also always loved Bash at the Beach name with the beach theme entrance or when they had the PPV on the beach. Fall Brawl was always a fun name too.
Really the only bad WCW PPVs names were World War 3, Souled Out, Uncensored and Hog Wild.
War Games > Survivor Series
Kind of hard to compare the two. War Games is one match that usually is a blow off to a bunch of feuds while Survivor Series is a bunch of tag team elimination matches. Obviously as far as match quality War Games blows any Survivor Series match out of the water.
War Games was, and is, awful. As fans, we remember it being better than it actually was. I am fine with that match and concept being dead and buried.
As for what I would do if I were in charge:
I would KEEP the brand split:
I would scale RAW back to two hours:
I would allow for a "trade window" between the start of Survivor Series through the end of the Royal Rumble. Wrestlers, managers and future draft picks could all be dealt.
An annual draft would be held a week or two after Wrestlemania which would span both RAW AND Smackdown (the only exception of wrestler's being able to appear on the other show, would be these two special airings). At the draft, both rosters would have the ability to up to FIVE wrestlers off of the other's roster, as well as 3-5 off of NXT. Trades would also be allowed during the draft, in addition to the trade window already established.
I would shift the women to Raw and make them exclusive, Cruiserweights to SD Live, and make that exclusive. Separate Tag, Secondary and World titles, as they currently have it. This allows for consistency for the viewer, as well as make both brands distinctly different with CW/Women.
I would also make one of the brands TV-PG, while the other would be TV-14, allowing for a vastly different viewing experience that can span all prefered audience demographics. Most likely, RAW would be the TV-14 to allow for more freedom with the female talents, whereas SD Live can get by with the workrate of the CWs without the needed additional violence, swearing, etc.
Each brand would get SIX exclusive PPVs, in addition to the FOUR co-branded ones (Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, Survivor Series). This means 16 total PPVs, annually, which is more than the usual 12, but less that the 19/20 they plan on running now. Matches like Hell in The Cell, Money in the Bank and others would not be stand alone PPVs, but match types to help blow off a feud, crown a new challenger, etc. (in other words, you wouldn't have a Hell In The Cell PPV, but a Hell In The Cell match at any given PPV).
Camera work is pretty good, but I would add additional cameras in, or around the ring, to give a different viewing experience to the end users. A turnbuckle cam, for example, is LONG overdue. Seeing replays of someone getting whipped into the corner, or monkey flipped into the buckle, or just them falling into frame from a superplex, would make for a unique perspective. I also still really like that above ring cam. They use it in ladder matches, but even in regular matches, that can be a fun camera to utilize for reviews and perhaps the opening sequence where they circle each other, or are getting to their feet, towards the end of the match.
I would push angles via social media. The Sheamus/Cesaro Facebook Live stuff was brilliant, and vastly under tapped, as far as the possibilities in can open up. Twitter barbs between wrestlers, Instagram pictures that reveal layers to an angle (for example, a masked attacker takes out Cena, and a few days later, an instagram post on Randy Orton's official account shows a mask and crowbar in his gym bag, which can lead to either Orton being revealed as the attacker, or someone planted it, hacked his account, etc.)
Having more "Tales Of The Tape" for their matches, would be a nice touch, as far as presentations go. SD Live does something like that on entrances, showing little factoids and stuff like that, but a bona fide effort to make it look like legit competition again, would help make their big matches feel even larger.
And last, I would try to figure out a way to have matches MEAN something on regular shows. Meaning maybe there is a "bonus" for winning your match on RAW. Be it financial or otherwise. But having consequences for winning or losing a match that doesn't have any other thing going for it, would be nice. Maybe a ranking system, similar to boxing or UFC? Win a bunch of matches, you move up in the rankings to challenge for a title, lose a bunch, you have to work your way back to better competition, etc.
Those are my initial thoughts on how you shift the product, without gutting rosters, making sweeping changes to current storylines, or anything else that jars the audience out of it's suspended reality.
Lol this burial of Seth rollins is pretty out there... where do u go from here with Seth? I would think this closes the chapter
Forgot to mention, if booker t ever has another "shuckey ducky" segment again, ill hurt something... that was brutal
Vince making sasha lose the title in her hometown. Yikes, you can hear a pindrop much like when Undertaker lost to brock
The PPV was not very good.
Seth Rollins is NOT getting buried. Silly to even think that, quite frankly.
I think they are getting Charlotte to 16 title reigns as quickly as they possibly can...for obvious reasons.
That match was snake bitten from the start. Lots of malfunctions that they simply couldn't overcome. Oh well.
It is best if this PPV is forgotten as quickly as possible.
Good stuff. I like a lot of your ideas and some of them I never even thought of. The big thing is making matches MEAN something. Back in the day Gorilla would from time to time mention that Wrestler A won and therefore was taking home the bigger pay check or when a heel champion would get counted out or get DQed he would make a comment about how he gets to keep the belt but doesn't get the winner's pot or how you want to be champion because the pay day is higher. Just little stuff like that goes a long way.
Hopefully Vince is reading this thread and is ready to hire us to help out.
This is one of the main problems I have with the brand split because these split PPVs are pretty uneventful and/or throwaways. I get that the WWE can hype viewers get 2 PPVs most months for $9.99 but these split PPVs have basically been expanded episodes of RAW/Smackdown.
Yeah I don't understand why someone would think Rollins is getting buried. It took 2 guys in a cell to beat him. He'll probably move on to a feud with Jericho for the next 2 months until the Rumble. They're just treading water until the beginning of next year to start the Rollins/Triple H WM build up.
I truly worry about Sasha's long term health with some of the moves and bumps she takes. She seems like she's a really tiny woman so her body probably can't handle those moves each week. I'd be shocked if she was around in 3 years if she continues her current pace. She's already had to take time off for injuries.
That was a ridiculous bump Kevin Owens took through two tables.. he took a cringing one on the TLC match in wrestlemania.. that guy is tough..
Btw reigns and rusev both bled so it did end up being a bloody match small gash but still counts
Yeah super dangerous and pointless bump from Owens, especially with Rollins' terrible track record of powerbombing guys.
I guess we will see a Shield reunion minus Dean
I'm... sorry Sam. I had to do it.
I just. I'm sorry.
That counts as a TV credit!
Also, got a chance to do some ring announcing last night for a small, indy fed. "Matanza Cueto" from Lucha Underground was in the main event, under his real name, Jeff Cobb. Former Olympian and had a great match with Karl Fredericks, who has a real good look. I don't know anything about him, but certainly looks like he has a bright future in front of him.