1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

OL concerning!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    4,266
    1,785
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    MIAMI GARDENS — Question: What’s cause for more concern, the three top Miami Dolphins receivers who keep missing practices with injury or the five starting offensive linemen who keep making them?

    The linemen showed up for work again Wednesday and gave the answer. It’s generally not a good thing when they’re noticeable, and they’ve received plenty of notice already this summer.

    It’s not time press the panic button — the idea here, in fact, is dredge up history to suggest the opposite, for this line be coached into a unit, for these expensive pieces to make it work and for this noticeable offensive line to turn efficiently invisible come the regular season.

    But you see plenty to wonder about now. Rookie Liam Eichenberg, who cost a second- and third-round pick this draft as a “plug-and-play right tackle,’’ as ESPN draftnik Mel Kiper Jr. said, was moved to the less-challenging position of left guard. Re-plug him there?

    That highlighted a shuffling of positions. And questions. They spilled into the first preseason game, when the running game started at the Chicago 1-yard line and ended two plays later at the 3-yard line.

    [Most Read Dolphins Coverage] Dolphins camp: Rowe shines during matchup with Falcons’ Pitts; stock up, stock down and other Wednesday observations »
    Then Wednesday. Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa gushed afterward about the Atlanta two-minute drill at the end of their joint practice that played tic-tac-toe down the field for a final-seconds field goal.
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,488
    8,397
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    What a surprise. We've been unable to field an effective oline for at least 20 years.
     
    pumpdogs likes this.
  3. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    4,266
    1,785
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    I now crazy right?How many wasted draft picks through the years?
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    2,595
    525
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    I think it has more to do with coaching, hope we finally find a good O-line coach.
     
    Galant likes this.
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,447
    10,630
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I say this every year, but building the offensive line is a process that takes consistency to become above-average. We've started out poorly and grew to being fairly consistent every single season under Flores...and each time it's been a revolving door of OL coaching, players, etc. I would rather see us stick with the same coach and the top 6-7 linemen for a couple of seasons to really drive home that consistency.
     
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Mancz is in.
    Skura is out.
    Deiter looks like the starting centre.

    Per Wolfe, the only hope here is that the very young OL develops into a solid unit. Right now, though, it's not a great situation.





    Failure to shore up the OL this draft, other than Eichenberg, could prove to be the glaring error in this draft. Can Flores and Grier figure out how to build and OL through both talent and coaching?
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,447
    10,630
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I don't think it's panic time yet- let our youngsters develop together. At times, they've been solid the past two seasons and I see no reason why we can't get back to that this year.

    The other side of that coin is with the RPO offense, the ball is coming out quickly and we don't need a 4-5 second pocket on most plays.
     
  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    I hear you, and I hope it works out, we did see better than expected performance last year. However, I can't ignore the fact that neither did we seem to see progress this year as we have elsewhere. A strong defence got stronger, both the DL and secondary. Special teams too. The QB situation (at least arguably), the WR room. The two areas that didn't see obvious improvement are the OL and RB team. The argument is that the speedy WRs will give room to improve the run game. We'll have to wait and see. The OL, though, only saw Eichenberg come in. We also saw the Dolphins attempt to trade for a free agent but miss out on him and Skura was the consolation prize.

    I'm not convinced the Dolphins are happy with it.

    It's early, but I do wonder whether the Hunter Long pick is going to prove to be a missed opportunity and wasted pick. I think a wiser move, knowing that some picks don't work out, would have been to grab another young offensive lineman.

    If the OL play regresses, it will be very disappointing.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,447
    10,630
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Sure, I don't disagree with you...a flashy RB was at the top of my wish list as well. Ironically, I really wanted Etienne and he's already out for the season.

    I also agree that the front office was hoping for more from the line at this point, but our line coach got poached (a sign of success) and our young linemen aren't looking a lot different from last season. From what I've seen though, the starters have been fairly solid and there's a huge drop-off getting to the 2nd team. I don't see that as a problem today since that backup group still has about 6-8 weeks to iron out the inconsistencies. Someone will inevitably go down and that's where the problems start.

    So short term, I 100% agree...it's not a great look. But long-term, I do like our core group that should be developing together over the next several seasons. It's hard to put in words how vital that is, the thousands of live reps together, to really come together and work as a cohesive unit. I played left guard in high school/college and by my sophomore year, I wouldn't even need to say anything to our left tackle when the defense shifted or ran stunts- we just had natural chemistry together.

    That's what the Fins have lacked for decades- its the stuff that only time and reps can teach.
     
  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Some positive news?!

     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
    KeyFin likes this.
  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Short thread on the OL from Chris Kouffman / ckparrot after yesterday:
    https://t.co/GpArQon69v?amp=1

    "After NE gave Miami's OL a pass by rushing only 3 players on a lot of downs, trying to take advantage of Miami's weakest unit by getting the job done with a small budget so they could send resources elsewhere, Buffalo decided to pounce on the weakness. They hit pay dirt.

    There are a lot of uncomfortable conversations and feelings happening behind those walls today, I have no doubt. Flores has burned through 14 offensive coordinators and 27 OL coaches in less than 3 years and that's contributing. Personnel choices on OL have been...bad.

    Sometimes you keep trying to see the light on a guy you never liked in the draft, but at some point you cut it and say, there's a reason I didn't want him. That's where I'm at with Austin Jackson. I wanted to cry when they couldn't get Tristan Wirfs and got this guy instead.

    What's most disappointing is I know internally some were super jazzed about Austin Jackson and thought he'd be a star. He's got such great athleticism, but he was never, I repeat, never, a good left tackle at USC. And sometimes you want to draft offensive linemen that are...good?

    Decision after decision, Ereck Flowers, Austin Jackson, Solomon Kindley, Michael Deiter (doing well at C, a position he was not drafted to play), Jordan Mills, Evan Boehm, J'Marcus Webb, Julie'n Davenport, Isaiah Prince, Adam Pankey, Danny Isidora, Ted Karras..suggests a pattern.

    Whoever is back behind the curtain deciding what traits make an attractive OL to go after from a personnel standpoint...is not very good at it. It's a pattern. It's not one guy. Their homeruns are actually just singles. And their overall average is very poor.

    Liam Eichenberg and Robert Hunt are the best decisions they've made on OL since Flores came to Miami. That's not hindsight, just judging as if I were the one making the decisions. They may have lucked into something w/ Deiter at C, which always should have been his position.

    Sometimes you try and screw your eyes up and see the sailboat (schooner), maybe they're putting an emphasis on this, maybe there's good reason to do that, etc. Football people ALWAYS have a reason, whether you like to think so or not, and I always try and find that reason.

    But in the end when receipt after receipt is coming in and personnel people around the league are quite literally laughing at your team's expense, you're tempted to toss it all and say, **** it I'd never have drafted those guy, signed those guys, etc., and I also had a reason."
     
    KeyFin and resnor like this.
  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014


    Gaskin in pass pro.... why? Was that the plan at the start of the season? If not, then what WAS the plan, because we would get rushed at some point.
     
  14. Draconis1410

    Draconis1410 New Member

    24
    13
    3
    Mar 14, 2013
    New York City
    From what I've noticed around a lot of teams, the OL is always an issue. I think the start of "less contact" for practice really put OL players in a hole with the physicality needed to excel and college is not preparing these OL enough with their limited contact rules. And it sure seems like we draft "Soft" OL, we need folks like Richie Incognito who are absolute monsters in the trench.
     
  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  16. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

    2,579
    1,265
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl
    A solid running back will usually pick up an extra rusher or two when blitzed. He missed a couple of those yesterday but looked good otherwise. Hopefully he can improve on that.
     
  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    That score doesn't indicate he looked good.
    Either way, he's hardly a pounder. If you're going into the season with the plan to use Gaskin in pass-pro when you're in a pinch...
    Flores and Grier clearly had in mind to use Brissett in QB sneaks because of his size over Tua. Yet they thought this OL would be good enough to have a player like Gaskin work in pass pro.

    SMH
     
  18. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

    2,579
    1,265
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl
    I meant other than his pass protection.
     
  19. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

    299
    195
    43
    Sep 29, 2016
    Where does that rank with respect to the rest of the league? I’m guessing bottom 5?
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Ah. Understood.
     
  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  22. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014

     
  23. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    2,821
    1,773
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    I hope we look at Tyler Linderbaum in next years draft. Time to start upgrading this OL. Hopefully Liam can eventually move over to LT and then Hunt/Davis can play RT.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,447
    10,630
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I think part of that is what Gaskin gives you working out of the backfield as an outlet receiver as well.
     
  25. Dan S

    Dan S Phins up!

    138
    74
    28
    Jul 30, 2016
    As far as I'm concerned this regime has shown they can't draft OL for squat. I'd rather they start spending some money on free agents that have proven they can play at this level.
     
    Finatik and resnor like this.
  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    1,804
    949
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Another terrible pick by Grier. Most people in here were giving me a hard time for complaining about the Jackson pick when we made it, but it was clear from his college tape that he was very lacking in strength and technique, definitely not worth a 1st round pick, just like Noah Igbinogenhe was not worth a 1st rounder, and Tua was not worth the 5th overall ahead of Herbert. The incompetence in our drafting has been unbelievable. Grier should have been gone yesterday.
     
    resnor, mlb1399 and Rick 1966 like this.
  27. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    7,610
    3,063
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL

    I didn't like the Jackson pick either. He was a reach and everyone knew it. There were better O linemen available.
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
    Striking likes this.
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,058
    2,410
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Tua clearly doesn't have it. If that was Justin Herbert he would have simply bounced off the hit from Epenesa and throw a backflip pass through his legs for a touchdown. Epenesa would have been the one with broken ribs.
     
  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    7,610
    3,063
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
    If it was Justin Herbert, he would have probably got out of the way. Because, you know, he's right-handed and would have been facing into that rush.
     
  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  32. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    10,536
    4,091
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    ....Bruh....
     
  33. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,465
    2,330
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    THIS
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  34. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    2,821
    1,773
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    So here’s a couple questions/thoughts I have:
    1. How much of Jackson’s abysmal performance was due to Covid recovery? It took me a solid month before I regained my normal energy levels

    2. Clearly this staff decided to go towards youth. What should we be expecting? Kindley, Jackson and Hunt are 2nd year players. Liam first year. Dieter is the veteran at 3 years.

    3. What’s the fix? Give them more time, draft more or resort to FA signings?
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    16,041
    9,449
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Literally moved out of the guy's way...

     
    hitman8 and Silverphin like this.
  36. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    10,536
    4,091
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I'm not one to condone or encourage violence. But if Tua wanted to homie in the parking lot, I'd understand.
     
  37. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

    299
    195
    43
    Sep 29, 2016
    And there were several good C prospects in this year’s draft that Grier ignored. How they’re going to turn this unit into chicken salad is beyond me.
     
    hitman8 likes this.
  38. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    2,821
    1,773
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    I really wanted Creed Humphrey and he’s looked good for the Chiefs so far. Not to mention taking Sewell with our first selection.
     
  39. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    12,800
    5,457
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Should have just kept Tunsil!
    Wth did trading him get us??
    All of those picks!!??? Gone!!!
    For squat!!!
    Grier should pack his bags right now .
     
  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    12,800
    5,457
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    How does this guy still have a job?

    I don’t like anything he says. It’s all just generalities about OL coaching. Such BS.

     
    Striking and hitman8 like this.

Share This Page