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OL Move Rumours

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Per Barry Jackson: - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article254113958.html

    "Dolphins coaches and officials, this week, privately and briefly discussed the wisdom of two global issues: moving Robert Hunt back from right guard to right tackle and possibly shifting Jackson from left tackle to guard. The sources said both remain on the table as long-term options, but the Dolphins are not expected to execute either of those moves now."

    "They want to continue to develop Jackson as a tackle, but for the first time, the idea of playing him at guard has been raised and could happen at some point.

    Hunt played well at right tackle the final six games of last season, but Miami moved him to right guard in April, believing he has more upside there.

    Per sources, the Dolphins have gone back-and-forth about where to play Jesse Davis and Eichenberg. There’s some thought to having Davis continue at right tackle and Eichenberg at left guard, and it wouldn’t be surprising if that’s the direction they go against Las Vegas.

    But there’s also some internal support to having Davis move to left guard (where he has experience) and playing Eichenberg at right tackle, where he played (and allowed five pressures) after Davis left Sunday’s game with a knee injury."

    "Kindley was removed late in Sunday’s 35-0 loss to the Bills — even though he wasn’t injured — and replaced with rookie Robert Jones. Offensive line coach Lemuel Jeanpierre declined to explain why but said all five jobs will have open competition this week, though sources said they already have a plan barring something in practice changing that plan."

    Apparently Eichenberg could replace Kindley at LG.

    Sad.
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Eichenberg allowed zero sacks his final two seasons at Notre Dame, and so far he's looked pretty solid for Miami. He's not there yet and has to fully adjust to NFL speed, but I do think he's much closer to being a long-term answer than Jackson.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I'd like to see him at LT, but the rumour is he'll go to Guard, Kindley gets benched and Jackson stays at tackle...
     
  4. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Put the best 5 out there. Do it soon so they can start gelling. We can’t afford to wait much longer.

    I always thought T was more challenging, so if Hunt is struggling at G, how is it going to be an improvement moving him to T?
     
  5. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Hunt is not really struggling at guard, it's just that he played the RT position last year much better than Davis is playing it this year, so moving him back to RT can plug up that hole. Hunt is probably the best lineman we have right now.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  6. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Key, you played OL, correct? Isn’t all the juggling and position switching making it harder for these guys to get comfortable in a position and gel as a unit? Or is it a necessary evil to build a solid line?

    Regardless, if there’s not immediate improvement, they are going to get all our QBs killed.
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I hate that- Jackson was the worst of the five ON PAPER. Part of the problem was the actual assignments; an edge rusher would step up after protections were set and Miami didn't adjust. Jackson HAS TO call that, so the center or Tua can make adjustments. Either way, it's Jacksons fault 100%...part whiffing on blocks and part bad communication.

    Honestly, I have no idea why teams weren't doing that last year- young QB, young line...shift the formation last second and let them make those rookie mistakes. It was very embarrassing to see that in year two for these guys.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I played high school and college (div III), then coached a little at my old high school as well in my late 20's. Fun fact- I went to Nova High, which is right next to where our the Dolphins practice facility has been for decades.

    Going from LT to RT is an adjustment because you're doing everything backwards in passing- your steps are the opposite of what you'd do on the other side on passing plays. Line in general is a position where you DO NOT want the player to think- on passing plays it should be 100% instinct to make the step, seal the block, drive to the outside while forming that pocket. Is that a huge deal? No, not really. There's only a slight learning curve to adjust and get out of your head.

    On run plays, I'd say it doesn't matter as much because the footwork isn't as crucial; I could have played any of the 5 positions and know where to block- you're blocking down, kicking someone out or getting after the linebacker in that gap. Also, on run blocks you get to be the aggressor, so stance and technique (staying low, exploding off the ball) are universal. If the Fins signed me today, I could know the majority of run assignments by kickoff this Sunday (I'd have to learn the pulling stuff...wouldn't have that in a week probably). It's not hard to learn and adapt to any of the positions and it doesn't change much from high school to college to pros.

    But now I have to say something unfortunate- most of the linemen I played with at both levels and coached in high school were dumb. Like Vontae Davis dumb. And maybe my experiences were unique, but I called our blocking assignments in high school at LG and again in college at C. Most of the guys I played with were absolute maulers, they could drive you through a brick wall, but they'd get up to the line and they're thinking about snap count, who their assignment is, what the audible means, etc. The dumbest of the dumb would also stare at who they were about to block, which somewhat gave away the play and where it was going. Because of all that, they'd pause just for an instant at the snap and their defender is already past them into the backfield.

    I think we've seen that stuff A TON the past two years- guys thinking when they should have been reacting. Once you think, you've lost and that's why players like Johnathan Martin are appealing...super smart, professional, and could just do their jobs. But it ultimately backfired and he ended up thinking too much anyway; it wasn't his actual abilities. That's the whole thing though- training them not to think at the snap...just fire off the ball and hit someone.

    In high school, every single week our line coach would drop down four of those plastic orange triangle cones down in a square formation. Then two by two, he'd blow the whistle and the guy who drove his opponent out was the winner. We'd do that until only five guys were left standing....and those were our five starters on Friday night. So it's not uncommon to actually practice "the best five start"- but how do you do that in the NFL where there's no real contact in practices? How do you develop linemen at all when training for this ultra-physical job is basically a philosophy class and hitting a few sleds?

    I can't answer that because I would have no idea how to coach it. I'm not saying some of our linemen are dumb or smart, but I can tell you that even the dumb ones learn through repetition...you hit and hit and hit some more, then you get water and do it 150 more times after that. So the line coach needs to be fantastic in fundamentals while also giving these guys a ton of confidence. I personally was a very solid lineman and a pretty good coach, but I'd be completely out of my element on how to teach our guys with the current CBA. I'm sure the linemen don't like it either because they want to be hitting and learning and being better teammates.

    I'll tell you one more thing as well- the feeling you get when you miss a block and your QB gets clobbered; it's one of the worst feelings I've ever felt. It's like your whole world just imploded on you and you want to play better immediately for your team- but you have to think to figure out how you messed up and there's no time for thinking. So know that linemen who mess up take it incredibly personal; some end up on anxiety meds because of it and others completely wash out.

    I hope that helps!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  9. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think that we need to take step back with Austin Jackson. He started out pretty well as a rookie then he got hurt. After that, it has been a steady decline.

    I think that as an organization, we need to do our best to ensure that he does not become a bust. I think we are at a point where it would do more harm than good by putting him out there. I would bench him and make him inactive. As an organization, I would sit with him and tell him that we want to work with him. We are gonna work with him on the fundaments and discuss whether moving him to guard would be the best option going forward or if he still believe that he can make it as a tackle. Either way, I would tell him that during this "step back," we want to set him up for success. I would tell him that we don't want him to dress until his ready to play. Whether that be 5 days or 5 weeks, we are willing to work with him.
     
  10. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like they have NO IDEA what to do to fix the OL. Any of us could do the move players around and see what happens approach. Coaches and talent evaluators should already know who needs to start, and where, and just get those five players to gel.

    It really looks like Grier has choked this rebuild in an epic fashion. Wrong QB. Wrong OL parts. Even worse, you don't get the benefit of what looks to be a top 10 pick season since you traded that away.
     
  11. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Key, thanks for the reply - interesting info on the most important, yet least discussed (by sports media) unit on the team.

    If all linemen feel badly after their an gets clobbered, then our OL should be pretty darn depressed this week.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    These guys are so damn young. There's going to be growing pains for sure. I may be in the minority here, but I like the upside of our O-line. I'm not sure why the regression this year? My guess would be that we have lost some veterans that really kept everything stable last season? Ereck Flowers is proving to be a tough loss for us. Not sure we should have moved on from him as quick as we did. Doesn't matter now. It's up to our young guys to learn on the job and get it done. I think the team knew there would be a step back in the process this year with the O-line. It's going to be ok, but this season is going to be a tough one for us i'm afraid.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Man, I remember one week my senior year in high school, we were playing the state champions in regular season and their d-line was huge. Usually that's good- huge means slow, but that's the one game in 7 total years of playing that I was worthless. The center and I would double team the NT and he'd still blow right past us like we were middle schoolers playing varsity.

    The coach chewed me out and benched me after the first series, but the backup was getting bulldozed instantly....as least I was slowing the hulk down so our QB could scramble away. I feel like crying...I was one of the toughest kids overall on the team, but I had no answer what the heck to do. I had never been completely owned by that- never at any level.

    I don't know the big guy's name, but he had to end up on a prominent D1 roster and probably the pros. He was literally a man among boys.

    Anyway, our line coach saw the absolute slaughter of the backup and he finally stopped yelling at me- his whole demeanor changed. He starts talking to me almost in a whisper, right in my ear, saying that I was faster than that guy and leverage is everything. Get in a full four-point stance (I usually went 3-point), stay as low as possible and drive straight into his thigh before he could take his 1st step. I had to be off the ball first though, I had to be the quicker guy since I was giving up 100+ pounds (I was 225, he was probably 340ish).

    So I was back in on the next series, and by this time I'm practically shaking in my 4-point stance since I'm so ready to fire off that ball. First and 10, I absolutely obliterate him, the guy falls back and I jumped right on top of him like it was WWE. I stared into his eyes with all the hatred in the world, and made it very clear that he wasn't coming through that gap again.

    The next play, I hit him before he was even out of his stance and he toppled right over....and he wasn't in my gap the rest of the game (he was in the other A-gap instead). Why? Because his coach saw the same thing our coach did earlier- big boy was losing the mental part of the game. We still lost that day by 50+, by the way, the opposing team was Dillard High and they just didn't lose in the early 90's.

    I told that story for two reasons. First, if the coach didn't pull me when I was mentally defeated, I probably wouldn't have recovered. In fact, it would have got worse as the game went on. But the same is true for the goliath- he was FAR BETTER than me, but it only took one great block to get in his head and own him for the rest of that series. So that's the game linemen play all afternoon; you dominate once and it gets easy. You get beat badly and things get very, very hard.

    The first few sacks Jackson gave up this past Sunday, it was the formation itself where he didn't change the coverage. He didn't miss a block but it didn't matter, it was on him and he was in his own head just like I was above. And as a result, his performance suffered on the next few series...he was 100% beating himself. Personally, I would have benched him after the 3rd play, even if it was just for what my coach did for me. Calm down, talk it out, and get back to fundamental football. Speed and technique beat strength every time.
     
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  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    To add to that, how much is not having a veteran center helping with pass protection calls impacting things? Is it people missing assignments or is it they aren’t set up correctly?
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    IMO, the starting five should be:
    LT Eichenberg
    LG Kindley
    C Deiter
    RG Davis
    RT Hunt
     
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  16. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    I don't know much about that in the present iteration of the positions, but Guards used to be a little more athletic for pulling and running, and not as big as tackles, who basically just bulldozed ahead for running and formed a wall for pass blocking. [Quick synopsis, I know!]'
    We have seen some guards move to tackle, but I don't remember a lot of tackles moving to guard unless they had good speed (the pulling factor!)
    Now, I know that someone will find a list of exactly that!
    Both positions have requirements and it has been quite a few decades since I played, and my Sundays have been designated for the past 4 decades for my calling, I haven't been able to keep up with a whole lot - but............ I still remember a great time playing line until I just about ruined my left shoulder. I was overmatched - 5'8 and not a whole lot over 200#.
     
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  17. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Reviewing PFF’s OT ranking, I found it interesting that the 3 players we’ve had play T are all ranked in the 60’s and former Dolphin Billy Turner is #20.

    flowers is also rated #18 meanwhile our G’s rank 38 and 55.
     

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