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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Southbeach, Mar 16, 2011.
If you bring up their short careers, do not then claim they're irreplaceable. Just as a courtesy.
At the fast food comparison......
I don't see why anyone needs to take a side. I have no sympathy for either side. The owners are largely responsible for this situation, but that the players are not without fault.
Pick a side though? Ludicrous imo.
You are correct, I did put profit when it is indeed revenues. If all that money is going towards those sorts of things, then why not open up the book and show that this is what its costing us and the first billion that we are taking off the top just isn't getting the job done??
On a side note you can't act like that money doesn't go towards the profit of the owners. Just for simple math we'll say its 10 Billion dollars. If the owners are taking 2 Billion off the top and splitting 60% players and 40% owners like it is now. The owners are walking away with 5.2 Billion dollars in which a portion of that is profits. The players are walking away with 4.8 Billion dollars. If everything were to stay the same and the owners only took a Billion off the players would make 5.4 Billion. Pretty big pay cut if you ask me, 600 Million dollars.
Either way, if you want to call it profits or not the owners slice of pie becomes bigger which also makes the profit slice of that bigger. If not the owners shouldn't have any problems showing where they really need that money to improve the operation.
The Owners, and why, because they have been willing to compromise plus it was not the owners who got up from the table to rushed to the Court House.
My hope is that this judge makes them revert back to the 2009 season and its CAP figure to make sure the players have to take a pay cut, it would be most fitting imho.
It's hard for me to pick a side when I feel both the players and the owners are moe concerned with money than the folks who pay their saleries.The whole thing just turns me off as we have seen this story before.
Normally I'm a management guy, but I'm largely with the players on this one.
The owners had no intention of negotiating until their $4 billion 'lockout insurance' was taken away by the courts.
IMO, their plan since they opted out was to hard-line, lock the players out and simply wait until they caved (and they would). Then the courts ruled and all of the sudden they make a bunch of concessions and we get close to an agreement.
The players aren't without fault. The decertification is indeed a sham. But again, ownership had little intention of getting anything done until they lost their leverage a month ago IMO.
No matter how you slice or dice this, it is a partnership, and has nothing whatsoever to do with employer-employee deals. An employer "tells" an employee what he will pay him, and if he does not accept, he hires someone else. No comparison to this dispute.
The owners are "asking" their partners (players) for a billion dollars, or whatever, for additional expenses. Their partners (players) are saying that they know expenses have increased but, need to know how much. The only way to know that is by opening the books. This makes perfect sense to me.
Owners do not have to open the books, as long as they don't ask for additional money, off the top, for something which is not known.
How is it, in any way, a partnership?
Do you know what an owner is?
Good point but, at least the owners did make concessions after that. I saw nothing from the players.
Rookie wage scale.
why are you comparing nfl players wages (who make billions for their company) to some jobs where you dont even need an education to do? You do realize nfl is entertainment? Actors make 7 million a movie, for pretending to be characters......but the movies they make, make BILLIONS so they make a huge amount of money for it. Comparing it to teachers salaries, or random professions is pointless and apples to oranges.
Yes, I do have a fair comprehension of the English language. LOL Do you understand what a partnership is?
Under their current anti-trust status, the owners, and football, now survive but, ONLY with a CBA. Without an agreement between both sides, there is no NFL as we now know it. The league would revert to Baseball guidelines with individual teams doing what they want.
As such, this is most definitely a partnership. One cannot function without the other. How can you, or anyone, dispute this? This is why both sides are asking for things, as opposed to dictating them.
Yeah, that's about it, and this was something everyone has been in agreement on for years. Not very impressive in trying to get a deal done.
Is that really a concession? I thought the current players (vets) were for that. Pretending to conceed something that is a benefit for nearly all players is kinda laughable to me.
What I think is even more comical is asking draft picks to stay away from the draft, while agreeing to cut their salaries.
Considering the NFLPA would be supporting the in-coming rookies, that is a concession, that is agreeing to the owners not spending a ton of money on the in-coming players........regardless of verterans, the rookies dont want the cap, and they will be agreeing to it (the union) so yes, it is a concession.
It's not a partnership SB. It's an owner worker relationship. Cut and dry. A partnership requires shared capital responsibility and shared liability and loss responsibility. If the NFL ever loses money, the players still get paid. The owners lose though. The last part of your statement does not apply to union employment with a CBA. If you're going to speak in business terms, understand the situation bro.
The owners are asking their employees for a billion dollars. No one but you is even arguing that they are partners. Just saying partners doesn't make it so. They don't have to open the books, until players invest money into the NFL and take a share of any losses incurred. They can ask for whatever the hell they want. The existence of the NFLPA, a union, proves they're not partners. Partners don't have to negotiate with management, they get a share of profit, not revenue like the NFLPA is getting, based on how much they put in. In the history of business, how many partners in a business have ever organized into a Union to demand "wages".
I'm not taking sides in this whole debacle. I've canceled my Direct Ticket, and also unfriended the NFL on Twitter and on Facebook.
I'm basically ignoring professional football for the time being. Neither side is right. Both sides are too greedy for their own good, and it's clear that this game - the one that at one point appealed to everyone here - has moved into a business.
The whole thing is just too corporate for my tastes. Maybe I'll come back to it after they figure out how to screw the pooch some more.
1) You do NOT need an education to play football.
2) You DO need education and/or rigorous training for all of the jobs I listed.
3) The response was triggered by pocoloco's argument: short and brutal career, therefore they are awarded as such.
4) I did not list teachers, nor was my selection random; it was a brief list of jobs both meaningful and (some) dangerous, all of which do more for you.
5) Sit down.
Now, everyone else gather round, because I have something to say; if you think that a Florida Cop ($53,000) should have to work 8 years to earn what Mickey Shuler will earn in '11 ($405,000), you can go to hell.
The top picks, players asked to avoid draft day are the guys who are going to have their money cut by the union.
Don't go there to shake the Comish's hand, thank Smith for cutting your pay. Fascinating. LOL
Comparing those jobs to nfl players is pointless....nfl players generate billions in revenue every year, so they are paid handsomley. Its an unfair system, get over it. Cops/teachers/firemen/medics all get paid peanuts compared to Rappers who just say ***** and talk about slapping hoes, but thats the way it is.
Get used to it, stand up, sit down, sit indian style, i could careless......
Oh and I doubt a unarmed security officer making 20 G's a year goes through "rigorous training"
I'm not going to lie to you; I'm a science major at . Very rarely does my calculus or physics book close to watch CNN or very rarely do I get to read up on business... it's just not my thing.
But what I can argue with you is that no company can function without employees.
Can the army win a war without soldiers? Can McDonalds get you a big mac without cooks? Can you get educated at college of engineering without professors? Can you post on this board without moderators?
No. No. No. No.
Each and every one of those jobs is essential to the functionality of said company (or division of the armed forces) and without them, the company folds. Importance ≠ standing in the business hierarchy. The fact of the matter is, there are people who earn their way to the top, whether it be excellence on the battlefield, a long enough stint on the grills, years of post-grad education or a fine display of knowledge and judgement.
But the fact is, there's an officer, manager, department head and founder above them.
And a general, regional manager, academic dean and webmaster above them...
Oh not to mention, their jobs wouldn't be possible without the drill instructors, janitors, grad students and donators.
There's a huge chain, and if one link breaks, the system fails. That said, it doesn't mean they should all be evenly compensated and they sure as hell don't have equal power.
If you're not as fond as my examples as I, then here.
Owner > GM ≥ Coaching Staff > Players > Practice Squad.
If anything, there's a partnership between each of the owners and Roger Goodell, but there is nothing between owners and their players other than employment.
KM, You are not understanding the big difference in this dispute. It is totally different than business as we know it. You need to know about the anti-trust exemptions the NFL now has.
I have dealt with unions, partnerships, and working for a salary. Players are negotiating for a percentage of "revenue" not wages. If revenue goes down, so does their income.
I can absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of any doubt, guarantee you that this is a partnership under the current laws governing this dispute.
It was a list. I'm not going to defy the integrity of it to prove a point. Most of the jobs on that list require more brains AND brawn than football players. Figuring out whether or not your blocking assignment is going left or right is a little less difficult than predicting what will become of a domestic dispute (and that's a VERY modest example).
Very few rappers make "millions," and the ones that do have record companies making exponentially more. As I just got done explaining to someone else, in the real(non-NFL)-world, there's a such thing as business hierarchy and an accompanying pay-scale.
Cane, I'm a fanatic of "The U." Wish ya all the best in your studies.
This is a case which "does not compute." Owners cannot hire employee's to play the game, at least not now. There is a new CBA or neither side can do business. Name me a business, any business, who can say the same. There are none.
The example you listed about rappers is the same exact one for NFL players. The players make million but the owners make billions. How/why is that comparable to random working class jobs?
And you reallllllllly belittled the thought process of a football player. There is more that goes into one play than what you mentioned. Who is blitzing, whats the audible, is there a hot route, how much time is left, did the qb say on first sound or on 2, can i hear the qb, down and distance.......then the ball gets snapped and you have to think quickly on your feet, physically out perform someone who is a world class athlete and one of the best at what they do, or multiple people, improv on the spot, do your assignment, dont make penalties, and win your individual battle.
Thats one play. and very generic.
Lets also be honest, how many cops or very special agents are there in this country? Hundreds? Thousands? Think about county cops, city cops, special agents, fbi, dea, security etc etc.....
Guess how many stating nfl quarterbacks there are in this country? 32.
Guess how many starting centers there are in this country? 32.
Guess how many starting cornerbacks there are in this country? 64.
So there is a significantly smaller amount of people that can do what these nfl players can do and make the money for the owners that is made. Thats why they are paid more. They are special.
Players, without a doubt.
What's hilarious is hearing people say that the fans will continue to support the product if the owners bring in replacement players. Oh yeah. I'm sure the owners will have no problems selling out their stadiums, including their obscenely priced corporate suites and sky boxes, by putting a sub-par product on the field. And I'm sure that the Packers fans are going to be thrilled to support a bunch of scrubs in their attempt to defend the NFL title, or that the Jets fans are going to be content watching a bunch of scabs fritter away their chances of getting to the SB after two straight championship game appearances.
Granted, it may well work to the Dolphins' advantage not to have to face the other teams in our division at full strength, given how regularly they stomp us. But I'm sure the fans of teams that are actually good aren't going to be so accepting of replacement-quality talent.
Hundreds of cops? LOL we're done.
Someone else take this one.
Back in the 40's, the league almost closed because so many of the players went into WW2. Those players weren't getting millions of dollars... not even 6 figures by inflation... how do you figure?
The game is ruined beyond repair. The most we can do is root for the owners to put the divas back in their place.
Football used to be a game of men. Now it's celebrities.
The game is ruined? I know I am still spending hundreds of dollars to watch it, I buy jerseys, I buy tickets, I pay out the *** for nfl ticket, and I follow the players on twitter and name my children after my favorite players.......I love the game. I played the game. And the record number of people that watched the superbowl this year don't think its ruined. If the game is so ruined, go watch something else
A true partner would get a percentage of the profit, not the revenue. Revenues can go up and even when profits go down. A partner would feel the loss if this happens.
Players want the best of both worlds where if revenues go up they want their salaries to continue going up, but if expenses increase, their salaries do not come down.
Really? You should see some of the cops I know. Either complete pencil necked wusses or fat slobs. Of course there are plenty of good cops who stay in shape and take their jobs seriously, but very few cops have the physical abilities of your average NFL player.
And your list included campus cops. You gotta be kidding me. They should make more than an NFL player? They go through rigorous training?
When it comes to the CBA you'll never find a post from me stating I'm on the players side.
Well then you're part of what ruined the game.
I don't go to Dolphins games for a reason.
Not because I'm not a fan, not because it's too far, not because the stadium is lackluster...
I don't go because it's horribly overpriced.
I'm not cheap, either. I'm a college student.
It's all about having a sense of self-worth. These players make so much because people pay hundredS of dollars to get nosebleeds. I could see about 20 Marlin games for the price of Dolphin tickets, and they have a better on-field product, too!!!!!! You see me at EVERY cane game too; we get free tickets.
All I'm saying is, if us fans would get off our knees, wipe our mouths up and wake the hell up, maybe teams would also adopt the concept of value.
Too bad it'll never happen again. Those days are over. Not that I was alive for them... I just know there were better times.