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Pat White v Tyler Thigpen for the #2 job, let the fun begin!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, May 19, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...i-dolphins-ota-updates-051910,0,7506841.story

    From Sparano's presser today, it is fairly clear that White and Thiggy are dueling to see who will be the #2 Qb, especially with Pennington being limited to 40-50 throws for most of the summer.

    For myself, I'd prefer Pat White to win that role, not that Thiggy is a scrub, not at all, but the way I see it Chad Henne will be the Dolphins Qb for the next decade, the #2 Qb should be able to offer more production than a low golf handicap, White does that, Thiggy really doesn't imho.

    D Hyde mentioned that P White looked good throwing the ball around today, fwiw, I'd prefer if he mentioned that White had his footwork down and got the ball out quickly.

    What say you?
     
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  2. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I agree with your train of thought here.

    That said, I'm not convinced Tyler Thigpen can't do what has been envisioned for White. Nevermind his advantages as a passer to this point, I think he's just as good if not a better, more effective runner at this level. Being 35 pounds heavier certainly doesn't hurt.

    That's been my story since the day he got here and for now, I'm sticking to it. :D
     
  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm rooting for Thigpen. At least if they send him in for a Wildcat-style play, he's a threat to throw the ball as well as run it.
     
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  4. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I like Thiggy to win for one reason....raise his trade value....if Thiggy loses and becomes the number 4.....they dont have much....

    plus I think he is better than White...
     
  5. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    Thigpen > White.

    JMHO...
     
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  6. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Exactly.

    He's a multi-dimensional player. I don't know how effective an inside runner he truly is. But if you're going to take Henne out of the game or from under center, I'd make Thigpen the guy that lines up wide sometimes. He's already got a 36-yard TD reception under his belt to boot.

    Heck, I'm not sure why they didn't line White up out there last year.

    At any rate, competition only makes people better. And I'd love nothing more than for our second round pick to pay dividends. If White were to win that job, we'd be pretty damn deep at QB.
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well what fascinates me about this competition is whomever wins is very likely to sit behind Chad Henne for years, literally.

    And I'm also really interested in seeing what sort of Competitor Pat White is, I've watched the WVa stuff and saw a different player in Miami last year, the Pat White that I've watched was an explosive runner who threw an accurate pass and made things happen ala Mike Vick, the White I watched in Miami in 09 played small, not in stature but in spirit

    To me, that is not Pat White at all, should be fun, White has his college resume, Thiggy has starting experience in KC but cannot touch White's athleticism.
     
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  8. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    personally, I'm rooting for Thigpen.

    But as far as White, I wondered last year, why they didn't line up White out where Henne usually is and give him the option of passing/running at the edge. At least he might have a little more open space to maneuver than running between the tackles.
     
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  9. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Well if White does end up as the #2.....I just hope he earns it and is not just given the job. Because so far, IMO he doesn't even deserve a roster spot..
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same here, White at Wr running the jet sweep would have created a good pass or run option, instead they put him into the Ronnie Brown role which did not make much sense to me.
     
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  11. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    the never ending wheel :wink2:
    thigpen again
    not even close
     
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  12. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    I'm a fairly optimistic person overall....but I just can't imagine the scenario in which White improves to the extent that he beats out Thigpen in fair competition.
    Maybe it'll happen. Y'know it may just be that White has that much ability and he simply had adjustment problems. Maybe he's overcome whatever was holding him back. Maybe we're going to see the Kordell Stewart type of player that we were supposed to see last year.
    But.........I'm not holding my breath. :dunno:
     
  13. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    We have a basic disagreement, Padre... To me the backup quarterback is the one who can most effectively run the entire package of plays without having to adjust a blooming thing. I don't see Pat White having that capability at this time, nor do I believe he will be able, in the foreseeable future, to run the base offense with anywhere near the capacity a fully prepared (as a backup) Thigpen can. The Pat White I saw in the pro game looked altogether too much like Mirer, McCown, Akili Smith, Klingler, Shuler, Beck, Toretta, and an enormously horrid number of others who looked like the epitome of greatness in college, but never had the game come to them in the pros. When you throw in the most daunting particular that the specific style of game White led while he played in college does not flourish save as a speciality change of pace style of 'alternative' offense in the pro game, and I really think the guy is in over his head as a professional quarterback.

    To me the absolute worse thing that could happen would be for a specialty style quarterback to become the back-up (White), for us to trade Thigpen, and have Pennington as the emergency QB. If Henne were to get knocked out a few weeks, we would be as bad off as when Fieldler went down and Ray Lucas came in - but in Lucas' case, we had reason to believe that he could handle it. We have no such luxury in White and I don't feel that White could handle the full load of the week in, week out, full time quarterback, as I see it now. I could be wrong, and he could develop, but I ain't gonna bet the farm on that one.

    On the other hand, we do know what capacity Thigpen brings to the field as a back up because he did just that for the bulk of a full season with Kansas City, and did better than the average bear, even though he had about as much pro experience as I do as quarterback (Which is to say that I might dream about that if someone were to crank up the way back machine and a genetic enhancer at the same time and take me back to 1964 and make me 6'4" instead of 5'7", and bestow upon me the mental make up of Bart Starr, Johnny U., and Bobby Layne intertwined - not to mention smack my old man in the head and make him think that this thing called football might actually have a future in it!). Thigpen, to me, has all the advantages of being a more complete quarterback as far as the base offense goes, as well as the capacity to handle the WC, if the team decides to pursue that to any great extent.

    In other words, the effect THigpen would have on the team and its planning for each game should Henne go down for a period of time would be minimal, and to me that is far better than having White, as he presently has shown, as the #2. I think that would dictate an entirely different game plan which would not be to our best advantage.
     
  14. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Chad Pennington's getting 40-55 throws per practice sessions.

    So what about Penny?
     
  15. Dolfan984

    Dolfan984 Underrated Free Agent

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    Thigpen is actually a threat to pass, and IMO is as good an athlete as White. Not a quick, but makes up for it by actually having QB size.







    Pennington for #2
     
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  16. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    get'em pat!
     
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  17. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    Thigpen is the much better QB IMO
     
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  18. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Once Penny is healthy, neither White nor Thigpen will be ahead him. I might not be a huge Penny fan but he's damn sure better than anyone on the roster not named Henne.
     
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  19. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    ...or Carpenter
     
  20. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    It's funny that this subject came up again but I like this one better. To be honest with you all, I would like to see both quarterbacks on the roster. I am sure that Sparano wont keep four quarterbacks.

    Other than what I saw of Pat White last year, I don't really know much about him. I know that he was a pretty good player at West Virginia even though I never actually seen him play. There is some potential in this guy. Obviously he could run and he posseses a pretty good arm even though he failed to complete a pass. Last time I checked he weighed in at 190 lbs. I would like to see him at 225 lbs. If he could maintain that speed and could improve his accuracy, I think could be a dangerous quarterback and could be a good backup to Chad Henne.

    As far as Tyler Thigpen, I like his arm and his mobility. He runs decently but he doesn't have White's speed. I don't think that is important, since he uses what he has fairly well. At this point in the offseason, he seems like the perfect person to backup Henne. I don't know how he is doing in the OTA's so far but in my opinion he has the advantage. I really don't know who should win but he should be given a fair shot at winning the # 2 spot.

    Either way it is going to be a good matchup to keep track of.
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    52 snaps and 5 passes is not exactly a resume to base a judgment on RR.

    Disagree for a couple of reasons:

    -I love the ability to pressure from areas on the roster that 99% of the teams in the NFL cannot pressure from, for every team aside from "us", the Browns and Jests, the #2 Qb position does only one thing that gives the Phins an edge.

    -A HC cannot Coach "scared" the what ifs are never ending, a HC should make a decision and let the chips fall were they may and not play "What if" to the point of paralysis by analysis.

    Whaat? Dude went 1-12 in KC and 4 of 8 with 2 int's in Miami, let's hold off on the comparisons there RR.


    To me, white offers the unique ability to produce from what is normally a dead space on the roster and to do so at a high level, add in he is a fine Qb prospect and imho the decision should go in White's favor...but I'm willing to concede that Thiggy is no slouch, White is far from a lock as the #2 Qb, he has to earn it.
     
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  22. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Hopefully White is up to the challenge because last year he was either overwhelmed or, well, just not that good.
     
  23. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Either White or Thigpen will be number two so they can be brought in for wildcat plays.
     
  24. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Actually Padre and others I don't think White was running the wildcat at all last season. I think they put in a few of his college plays to create still another wrinkle. He ran more of an option offense than the wildcat.

    Most of us expected him to do exactly what you are saying, line up at W/R and come across the formation or drop back for a toss like Pennington did a few times. Big mystery to me why he wasn't but I think they tried to keep it familiar for him and throw another wrinkle at teams that they could not possibly have prepared for.

    It was part of the disease our offense had last year trying to get cute when ugly was working fine.
     
  25. unclemonty

    unclemonty New Member

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    You seriously missed out. He was an absolute BEAST at WV.

    rushing: 2005- 952 yds- 7 tds- no fumbles
    2006- 1219 yds- 18 tds- no fumbles
    2007- 1335 yds- 14 tds- no fumbles
    2008- 974 yds- 8 tds- no fumbles

    passing: 2005- 828 yds- 8 tds- 5 int
    2006- 1655 yds- 13 tds- 7 int
    2007- 1724 yds- 14 tds- 4 int
    2008- 1844 yds- 21 tds- 7int

    White finished his career with 6,051 yards and 56 touchdowns passing and 4,480 yards and 47 touchdowns rushing for a total of 10,531 yards and 103 touchdowns. White and Steve Slaton were an amazing QB-RB tandem and just a ton of fun to watch. He was also 4-0 as a starter in bowl games.

    Hopefully the light switches on for him. He could become a very valuable situational player if so. I still have hope, it was only one bad season.
     
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  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This is a prime example of what you did in the other 1 million Pat White love fest threads. Rather than show what Thigpen did for QB rating in KC, TD passes, INTs, rushing stats, etc and how they compare to Henne's one season as a starter, you toss out the KC w-l record, like that is all on Thigpen. Sad sad sad. :sad::no:
     
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  27. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    for the benefit of the PHINS, i want to see PW improve and at least prove he can be a 1 trick pony at QB ... would like more than that of course -- but at this point if he could prove to be a leader for the envisioned WildPat ... which would prove to be a tremendous advantage for us.

    yes, i believe we will run the WC less this year ... if for no other reason -- we have a real offense now with real threats at WR and what should be a good OL.

    IF we had to default to CP for some reason (mainly injury to Henne), then the WC would instantly become more prevalent.

    but back to PW vs Thigpen ... without a doubt, Thigpen is the better QB ... PW would have to show much growth to beat him out as a QB. The catch is the WC -- can Thigpen run it ... and I mean 'run' it .... that's the edge PW has on him. IF he shows he can, then PW is in a perilous situation.

    CP is CP ... we know what he brings to the table - and what he doesn't ... and i don't think this offense is suited to his strengths at this point. I don't see us as a dink and dunk team anymore, as its been reiterated on every occassion that we want chunks. The good news ... he was what we needed 2 years ago, but now he is merely a safety net.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It has been stated here many times that when PW was in the game last year, we were not running the WC. Rather a spread. So, I do not see where PW has an edge regards the WC over TT. TT is at least bigger and stronger to run inside which is where the WC trigger man generally carries the ball. TT is a much more proven runner in the NFL than is PW. He gained over 300 yds in 2008 at over 6 ypc.
     
  29. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Thigpen is the better QB in a conventional offense.
    why they persist in making White into something he isn't
    rather than allowing him
    to contribute in a more appropriate way is beyond me
     
  30. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    For as good as he DID in college he was TERRIBLE last season in limited snaps.I expected to see something to get excited about....and didn't

    Hopefully he can wake up and complete a pass or 2
     
  31. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    have to find a match set for this abilities
    doesn't appear to be @ Conventional Offensive QB
    there is a place for this very talented football player
    just have to find it & his abilities will shine

    :escape::thanx:
    "...White finished his career with 6,051 yards and 56 touchdowns passing and 4,480 yards and 47 touchdowns rushing for a total of 10,531 yards and 103 touchdowns. White and Steve Slaton were an amazing QB-RB tandem and just a ton of fun to watch. He was also 4-0 as a starter in bowl games..."
     
  32. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Sorry Padre, but Pat White is NOT an NFL caliber QB.

    He had a good run in college, has great college athletic ability, just like 100s of other college level players that never make it into the NFL each year.

    Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that college level ability translated into the NFL game for him.

    I thought I read in Omars blog that White was up to his old tricks again (overthrowing etc.) but when I checked for the exact quote today, all I see is him saying basically that White struggled but it was just one practice blah... blah... blah... political... political...(I dont know if he edited his blog post or what but whatever - maybe it was another writter like Darlington on twitter, I'd have to check)

    The dude will be gone sooner rather than later just like Ginn, Beck and countless others I wont bother to mention.

    The fact that this regime drafted him so high, and how this regime HATES to look like they are ever wrong about anything, is the only reason he is still on the roster.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Odd Dave Hyde said he looked much better yesterday?
     
  34. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Yeah I know its weird. I swear I saw it, I am not going crazy...maybe? :lol:

    Like I said I thought it was Omar but today thats not there so I dont know.

    Oh well, either way where ever I read it, they blew it off anyway saying that it was one practice, in May OTAs, so no big deal.

    I hope thats true. In any case I will try and make it to a few practices this year and check it out personally.

    All in all, this regime can say and do what they want but they can't play the games for him so when pre-season comes, we can really see what is up with him. I dont see them holding him back for any reason during pre-season games, if he's in a heated competition for a spot, as that wouldnt make any sense.

    At that point, he will either sink or swim.
     
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I believe it was Omark and he said something along the lines of "I haven't seen dramatic improvement in Pat White's throwing".

    Sparano and Hyde mentioned White was throwing better with White showing some advancements.

    Eh, I'm just looking forwards to seeing what White can do as the dude from WVA looked nothing like that in Miami.

    Thiggy's problems were similar to White's as I've heard him called "just a shotgun Qb", his footwork and decision making needs to improve.
     
  36. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Ok Padre....where in the world could you, of all people, a guy more adept to form a football opinion of a guy than most of us, have seen this 'expectation' from White based on what he did (pardon the expression) last season, at this level ?? They gave him a limited role, with limited plays and he couldn't produce. If he was so great as a QB prospect coming from WVA, why couldn't he convert at this level, even in a role situation ??

    I'm sorry, I just don't get the folks who are talking about White as if he actually showed anything to us last season. The only reason we're having this discussion is that he was a high second round pick by this regime. If he'd have been a 6th round pick, we'd have seen almost no 'Pat White' threads...in fact, I might even have leaned more towards giving him more opportunities if he had been... Wasted pick (at #44). Not normal for this regime, but certainly true.
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, what should happen with Pat White is for the usual way players are evaluated to be suspended, what I mean by that is instead of a Qb metric of completions and ypa etc, a WC Qb metric should be used.

    Meaning what did the WC produce when White was at the Qb position?

    A couple of scores, a 30 yd run, not great, not terrible for 52 plays.


    What did Thiggy produce when he played?

    4 of 8, 1 TD, 2 int's.
     
  38. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Two things in your analogy. 1) compare apples to apples. What did White show as a QB here ?? Nothing. Didn't play. Not a knock on him, just didn't happen. Same with Thigpen as WCxQB. 2) White had the advantage of an offseason and full regular season here. Is arguably more athletic than Thigpen.Thiggy was brought in during the season thru necessity. Had a decent (18 tds, 12 int in 11 starts) year in 2008, albeit on a poor team. We at least have some history at this level on Thigpen, where we don't with White. I'm not knocking White....ok, I am...I'm really knocking the pick in general. The bottom line is we didn't get a #44 overall level of play from White, nor and more importantly, he really hasn't shown any potential either. That cannot be said about Thigpen as a potential QB.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    White showed a nice arm, Thiggy showed good ability to throw the ball outside of the pocket, White made fewer mistakes in the form of turnovers, Thiggy showed nice touch on a intermediate pass to DBess for a TD.

    White was not given the reps that typically go to a #2 Qb LFF, that was one of the surprises from last season, White basically ran very few plays prior to games and most of those were simple WC installs.

    White did look decent enough against the Saints 3rd stringers in the preseason, Thiggy is an unknown as KC preseason games are tough to come by.

    I can dig that White has detractors that he has earned, what I don't get is why White isn't given the same amount of developmental time that Chad Henne had, he sat a yr and no one complained, was is White "different"?
     
  40. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Thig started 11 games in 2008 for KC...played in 14...

    As for the developmental time, Henne was a 2nd string QB behind a veteran who was playing well. He wasn't expect or going to take snaps from Penny in 2008. White was NOT drafted to be an NFL QB, although the Troika went out of their way to state so. He was supposed to be our WCxQB...he was mediocre if not poor in those reps at that position. If he was supposed to revolutionize the WC, he certainly failed in that respect. He looked timid and 'small' on the field as the WCxQB. Perhaps that is expected as a rookie, but not as a guy drafted for a specific role as a rookie (think of, for example, Devon Hester [#57] in the second round) Obviously, I was expecting too much from him as were most everyone from the staff to draftniks to talking heads on ESPN to nearly all fans...

    An OLB coming into his second year drafted at #44 would look much better right now, even from a 'potential' viewpoint than White looks right now. JMHO, but we expected more from White than what he gave us.
     

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