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Pats Cheating again in the MIA game?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rickysabeast, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    So garbage time is when you are on the other team's 30 with a chance to tie??

    LMFAO!!
     
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Garbage time isn't what I think you think it is.


    Tanny had 2 pass attempts in the first quarter. He actually started to play pretty well in the 2nd quarter. If not for some drops, penalties, and fumbles the Dolphins would have had maybe 10-14 pts on the board at halftime. BB knew this. He knew this especially after Garop went down.


    Garbage time is when a team feels so comfortable enough for a win that they let off of the gas. BB has NEVER let off of the gas. He has Brady in meaningless games, 2:00 minutes to go, and ahead by 4 scores. He's passing the damn ball, from inside the 10 yard line, up by 20, with :30 seconds left in the game. And Brady is the one throwing and his 1st team WR's are the ones catching and his 1st team OL is blocking.
     
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  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    BTW, yes, the Pats cheat in every game.
     
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  4. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, it was similar to reading your posts? Got it. :up:
     
  5. RachelD

    RachelD Active Member

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    Starting to think that guy is a troll he only shows up to throw some comment to rile people up.
     
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  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And all week, it's been the same garbage comment... You can see it in at least 2-3 threads right now.
     
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  7. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm just curious how it can be garbage time in a game we had a chance to tie or win on the last possession? Sounds to me like someone doesn't understand the concept of garbage time.
     
  9. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    You've watched too many movies. The high school computer club could tie into those signals in like an hour.
     
  10. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    Yeah and now the same guy is unbeatable in College Football? He has a PHD in cheating learned from Bellicick.
     
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  11. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    I agree. They never have a down year, every backup player is as good or better than the all pro they fill in for, etc. They can take a bunch of never beens and has beens and plug them in and have career years. Something dishonest is happening in NE. Theres no way around it. Sure, I can't blame the patriots cheating for the fact that sometimes our guys can't catch. But, their D had our plays in the first half.
     
  12. RachelD

    RachelD Active Member

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    Whats really funny is I see Saban as a more vocal Belicheck still an major league ******* but he does it in a different way. In the press conferences Bill OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to do it and will answer questions with no emotion whatsoever, but Lil' Nicky will answer them but try to embarrass the reporter in the process. Saban is by far the worst communicator with the media than i have ever seen both college and pro its a pain to watch. If you want to be a dick than just take one question and move on don't berate them for asking a question and put on this holier than thou speech, because you are at "Bama" no offense to any Bama alums but its not the Harvard of the south or anything.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah you don't know what you're talking about.. on 2 accounts actually.

    First of all, movies tend to make it look like problems are EASIER to solve than they really are. Whether it's superhero movies with superhuman strength or how they depict scientists, it's always like "1,2,3 problem solved!" when in real life either it's real difficult or can't even be done.

    Second.. the war between code makers and code breakers that went on for thousands of years was won in the 1970's by code makers. Basically they took advantage of certain types of math problems that are let's say inherently difficult for computers to solve, like finding out the prime factorization of a number, and took advantage of that difficulty in designing a cryptographic system - called RSA encryption - that is essentially impossible for code breakers to decrypt unless you have sufficient time. You can easily make that "sufficient time" as large as you want, say 10,000 years even with the best supercomputers today.

    And RSA encryption is the basis for all secure communications today, from military to the banking system. Anyway, press releases suggest the NFL is using military-grade encryption:
    http://gizmodo.com/5937115/nfl-helmets-are-finally-using-technology-to-make-things-not-suck

    Oh.. that article also says the microphones automatically shut off at the 15 second mark, so talking past that is protected too.
     
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's absolutely not protected if there is a second mic, as Flutie has alleged.
     
  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Seriously, these conspiracy theories are out of hand. These type of headset problems occur around the league in all stadiums, and the NFL is responsible for the headsets (also that change was from 2012):
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-coaches-malfunctioning-headsets-arent-unique-to-new-england/

    It's literally easier and more influential on the game's outcome to bribe the refs. At least think of a conspiracy theory where logistically it's easier and makes more sense!
     
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  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Encryption really only as strong as whatever is protecting the keys.
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, your asserting that Flutie was lying?

    There's literally nothing hard about having a second mic in the headset operating on a separate frequency.
     
  18. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Cheaters gonna cheat.
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Bribing is not very easy, primarily because money is so easily tracked. Eavesdropping is much easier. Seems pretty easy to put a few mics in the booths and sidelines.
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, but that's the most unlikely of all scenarios. If the company responsible for the secure communication is worth its salt, the only way to get that is for the engineers of the company to hack its own system. You generally don't just have those keys lying around. And you'd have to have collusion with someone at the company.

    Not saying he was lying. And that was 2005. Like I said, this new tech is from 2012. And he wasn't saying there was a second mic. It was a second frequency on the same mic which goes to show which is more logistically challenging. If the NFL is responsible for the headsets, then it's easier to broadcast on a second frequency than add a second mic.

    It's easy enough if you want to do it. You could do it like politicians do and land a cushy job afterwards.

    In any case, bribing refs in professional sports has often occurred so it's not out of the realm, but usually you see something odd on the field before they find out about the bribing. Check out the Italian soccer bribing scandals as an example.


    Anyway, just so it's clear.. I do think Belichick wants to bend the rules or do things that might be borderline illegal. But I'm not going to accuse them of doing something that is just too logistically difficult (this headset issue) or where the penalty is too great (committing an actual crime) without clear evidence.

    Innocent till proven guilty is the way I think in that case.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    All Flutie said was that they were still talking to Brady after the 15 second cutoff. You are saying it was a different frequency on the same mic, because that allows you to make the argument that it's too difficult to do that now. The simplest answer is that they had a second speaker in the helmet that they could talk on all game long to him.

    There is nothing logistically hard about putting a second speaker in the helmet. It's easy. Not sure why you defend NE so strongly, given their history of cheating. Players know it, coaches know it, they just ate hesitant to talk about it. People have, but it's almost always anonymously.
     
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  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Quote from the article:

    That suggests all they did was broadcast on an "extra frequency", which will work with the same mic. Why use a second mic in that case? You can already do it with the same mic.

    And again.. IF the NFL is responsible for the headsets, then the logistically challenging part of putting a second mic in the headset is that you need collusion with someone from the NFL. If you can get that level of collusion, just bribe the refs!


    Finally, I'm only defending the Pats against what I consider to be logistically too challenging accusations or something that is a real crime, until we see evidence. I'm not defending them against things I find are relatively easy to do like taping.

    It's a reasonable position really.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    sycophant
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Not to imply anything negative about the company, but from what I gather, this isn't a very sophisticated operation:

    http://journalstar.com/business/loc...cle_e1119219-debd-59b3-a53d-3bd9379dad6d.html

    At the least, I think its safe to say this organization does not have close to the resources that an NFL team does.


    They have been proven guilty on numerous occasions. At this point, it is safe to say that they aren't morally opposed to cheating. It simply comes down to them being able to execute.
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It has more to do with competence of the engineers and managers than resources. I can do what's necessary for the encryption part on my laptop. The question is are they putting in the right safeguards. I've seen small companies and big companies both be unprofessional in that regard (and both be professional). No way to tell from the outside.


    Yeah I definitely agree with this.
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Don't disgree with any of what you said.

    Quite ironic though, that some googling brought me to the twitter page of the founder of the company (which is less than 5 employees from what I see), and it was hacked:

    https://twitter.com/goobermg

    Wonder who did that???
     
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  27. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak to what was going on in the second quarter, or whether the Patriots cheat. I can tell you that the Dolphins had one loss at home from 1971-1974, inclusive. I'm sure there are other examples of that level of home success; that just happens to be one I know about. That's what really good teams do.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cbrad. If there were a second speaker, would there, or would there not, be a second frequency coming into the helmet?

    Also, you don't need collusion. You put a second speaker, and you have someone wearing a headset that isn't from the NFL. Our isn't nearly as hard as as you're making it out to be. Actually, your reasons are more convoluted than the suggestion that there is a second speaker.
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Second mic would be totally independent in terms of specs of the first one, so it could either be the same frequency (probably would cause interference then) or different. I'm just using the most parsimonious explanation in that all you need is a second frequency with no tampering of the hardware which back then already allowed the use of a second frequency.

    The collusion part seems to be necessary if the NFL is providing the headsets. Someone has to physically put a second mic/speaker in there.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, for someone so smart...lol.

    The HELMET is not controlled by the NFL. You put a second speaker in Brady's helmet. Someone in a booth somewhere wears a headset that isn't issued by the NFL, and they speak from that headset into the second speaker in Brady's helmet. Easy peasy, no collusion necessary.
     
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  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Under that scenario, the NFL is NOT providing the communication equipment. IF they do, then you need collusion OR they simply don't enforce the rules.

    Either way, the simplest way to explain Flutie's claim is to not even tamper with the hardware and use a different frequency (no need to go round and round on this btw resnor :wink2:).
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, they are. They are providing the standard headsets that every team has. Then the Patriots add their own communication device, hence, cheating. They're not tampering with the NFL devices, they're simply adding their own into the mix, in addition to the standard NFL devices.

    I'm not sure if you're not understanding what I'm saying, or just want to argue. At this point, I guess I'll stop discussing it. Suffice it to say, the scenario I'm laying out is very possible, and very easy.
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    "providing the communication equipment" in this context (as well as when the NFL says it) means that ALL means of communication through headsets and mics are provided by the NFL.

    Clearly, the NFL doesn't make a rule like that and just say .. sure use whatever you like but IF you want use what we provide. No, it's you that's not understanding this. So yes either collusion or lack of enforcement is what you need.
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Does the NFL provide the QB'S helmet? My understanding is the NFL provides the headsets to speak to the helmet.

    Obviously the NFL would not be ok with the Patriots adding their own speaker and communicating with that speaker via an extra headset, or even through simply a walkie talkie. That's why it's cheating. They would be using equipment outside of the NFL rules.

    You're essentially saying that the Patriots can't be cheating using a separate headset because it's against the rules. The NFL won't let then use it, so it can't happen that way.
     
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  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think "communication equipment" has to include the speaker in the helmet. I mean the engineers need to know the stuff works.

    Anyway, I'm not saying Patriots couldn't have cheated the way you're saying. My argument is that's much harder than just using another frequency. You're far more likely to get caught if you add extra hardware.
     
  36. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why engage with this guy?
     
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  37. cdnfinfan

    cdnfinfan New Member

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    encryption doesn't mean anything. as someone that has worked in communications in the military for over 15 years I can tell you that it isn't very hard to steal signals and you'd be surprised how easy it is to steal information.

    with that being said, when I was watching the game live(at the stadium) i thought something was up right away when I saw that happen. and knowing the history that teams have with head sets up in that building I automatically assumed it was Pats related.

    to many coincidences up there.
     
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  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Oh sure, there are many ways to steal signals. The encryption itself is probably the only strong link in the whole process.

    But when someone explicitly talks about intercepting the communication, and then decoding it being easy for a high schooler, my post is spot on. The encryption isn't the problem.

    As far as the Patriots go, like I said as long as it's not logistically too challenging I won't say it can't be done, but I'm not budging from the innocent till proven guilty aspect of this for things that seem like it's difficult or where the penalty is too great.
     
  39. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    where there is smoke there's fire...
     
  40. cdnfinfan

    cdnfinfan New Member

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    innocent until proven guilty is a great stand to have....unless there has been a precedent set.

    and with the Pats the precedent has been set. If this was a once in a while problem I would just write it off as coincidence but when you have other teams and coaches thinking the same thing there is more than just coincidence.


    But yes, I would definitely agree that no "typical" high schooler is going to decrypt and communication like that, so easily and quickly. but with these teams worth more than some countries full GDP I have no doubt that they aren't spending good money on technology and smarts that can do it quickly.

    certainly helps to have MIT and Harvard just down the street (figuratively, not actually) LOL.
     
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