per Saban Wildcat creates an "11th Gap" for the offense

what a simple perfect way to describe this scheme. people who think its a gimmick should take notice. nice post.

 

The better OL in the WC is also the better OL in the base so that is not going to make RB more effective in one formation over the other.

The formation only provides an advantage if the D believes we might throw. If RB is back there as the QB why are they more likely to believe we will throw than they did last season? You may recall that over the last few games of the year our running success in the WC was about equal to our running success in the base. BPK explained it nicely earlier in this thread.

Also, the scheme-advantage of the Wildcat is not actually an advantage. Usually the defense has a one-man advantage (11 on 10) in terms of functional players to cover or block, due to the QB being useless. Wildcat football (that can throw) simply removes that numerical advatage and forces 11-on-11 football. At that point, the better athletes should win.

So what did the defenses do last year? They dared us to pass and defended the run so the formation advantage disappeared. The big plays we got out of the WC late were in the passing game. If we line up the same way why would they play us any differently? Why would it be any more effective than our base offense?

And putting White in a position where he could take a pitch is not much different than what we did late last season with CP so that shouldn't make us anymore likely to pass.

So if you want to say that you're excited about RB's potential production this year, I'll agree with you. Our OL should be improved and he should be healthier. But that effects both the base and WC formations equally. You haven't provided any reason for me to believe that they should run the WC the same as last year without a passing trigger man.

 

It's more complex than that. Teams "dared" them to pass from the very beginning. It didn't take weeks for teams to do that, it took minutes.The very first game had the formation run successfully vs. short yardage formations and situations.

The Wildcat was not as successful late because the blocking wasn't as good, and consequently, teams basically had to focus on defending two gaps which didn't have nearly the dominating play it did early in the year. 90% of the formations snaps had Justin Smiley pulling to the right side and the run going behind Jake Long and Vernon Carey. Late in the season, Justin Smiley was replaced by the ineffectual Andy Alleman, and Jake Long hit a rookie wall and wasn't as dominant a run blocker.

 

The blocking was worse but the teams were playing the run much more aggressively. At first the defenses seemed confused. They waited for the play to develop before attacking the line. By the end of the season they started blitzing at the snap whenever the formation was called.

And again the blocking deteriorated for both the WC and the base. It effects both formations equally and therefore it is a non-sensical argument when attempting to refute my claim that keeping RB as the QB will make the WC no more effective than the base O will be.

 

Part of the reason they attacked the line is because 3/5ths of the oline were filled with below average players at their position. It was our weakness and was attacked as it should of been.

you seem to be essentially saying that the wildcat {with ronnie operating} cant evolve, or get better, just because ronnie cant throw. Iam not sure if your seeing my point about how the position he plays in the wildcat in condusive to his skillset, i'll try to go deeper. The way he processes information from that position in that formation is completely different then getting a handoff in the proset {his peripheral vision is on point takin the direct snap}, his ball handling skills {no fumbles, no bobbles, no nothing}, his decision making {seems to have the gut to find the right seam}, these are elements in his wildcat game that are on display, that he will get better at, his oline will get better at it, his coaches {learning how to counter defensive interior blitzing with the scheme}, Pat white and his presense on the field with him, better..

I believe it was CK who said something like, one of the reasons why this scheme will continue to be effective, is because we feel like we own it, its ours, so we will practice harder, and our senses will be heightened while doing so. It sounded simple in text, but the more i think about it, the more it starts to unveil something profound.

Now i can see the point that no matter what ronnie can do on a football field, if the defense fills the gaps, the play is dead, well, on paper that may look right, but not in my mind. I think you can counter. especially with Pat white on the field with ronnie.

 

I agree that RB's skillset is very good for the WC. If everybody does their job it will come down to RB one on one against a defensive player. And I like that match up. But that's the exact same thing that happens in the base offense when everybody does their job. The only advantage I see for RB in receiving the snap (in regards to his running) is that he has an extra beat to decide which lane he wants. I see that as an advantage but its minimal when compared to the advantage gained over the D with a legit passing threat.

The advantage of passing from the WC is that the D will probably have matched up for the run (if they don't then we'd just run on them) and it will take them a few beats to get back in coverage. That advantage is lost or at least minimized if we we have to hand off or pitch the ball to the QB. That is just time lost that gives the D the opportunity to recover.

As for our O feeling the own the WC, I agree. But that only provides an advantage compared to other teams running the WC against us. I think the mentality on this team is going to be the same in in regards to the running game in general. I think one of Sparano's and the OL's goals is to dominate in the running game from the base. If the OL's improvement is real I think they'll own that as well.

Therefore, I see the potential evolution of the WC as extremely limited with RB as the triggerman. And the advantage the formation offers over the D as very limited compared to the advantage the formation offers over the D when the triggerman is somebody who poses a legit passing threat.

 

exactly, right on the money & I agree kudos! FriendRafael
and worth a second read

 

your saying slightly 2 different things in your first paragraph.

You say you see his skills enhanced from the position he is in when running the formation, yet you also say because both offenses gets him one on one with a defender that it should provide the same result...I think ronnie brown is better and more comfortable when hes taking the snap, i think regardless if both formations do their job and get him to be one on one with a defender, hes more dangerous coming at the defense with the ball from the direct snap

Right now,i dont want the spread, and I dont want Pat handling the ball the majority of the time, i want it to stay a power running formation with a few wrinkles and Pat's talents integrated within that philosopghy.

I do see the difficulties you bring up as it pertains to the constriction of the offense if theres no threat of the pass from the wcqb position, i just think, that the improvements within the philosophy and Pat white on the field with ronnie will help the Smashcat.

 

In that same paragraph I said that there was a slight advantage to him getting the snap but that it was less than the advantage of having the passing threat.

The only advantage I see for RB in receiving the snap (in regards to his running) is that he has an extra beat to decide which lane he wants. I see that as an advantage but its minimal when compared to the advantage gained over the D with a legit passing threat.

My issue is that I don't want it to be just a power running formation. If that's all it is then it really is just a gimmick. It's "refrigerator" Perry in the backfield. I want it to be an offense I think Parcells sees this as an opportunity to revolutionize football, to leave his mark on the game in a really big way. I don't think White was drafted to sit in the backfield as a decoy while RB runs. I think the goals for White are much larger than that.

 

were on the same path, you just wanna get there a lot quicker then i, lol.

I want to master one level at a time, i too see big things for pat white down the road, but it most come with great patience and ingeneuity. You know my thoughts on the wildcat itself, ive been talking about the revolution for almost a year {as soon as i saw the space and lanes it could create} But while Pat is working on his mechanics, fundamentals, strength and accuracy, he can be ronnies sidekick and little star in his own right.

Next year...more spread, more stuff what he did in college. will see Rafs, were gonna love what we put out there, no matter how fast, or how slow we take it, because, WE OWN IT brother.