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PFF grades are out for week 1

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The downplaying of Jordan's effort wasn't referring to the facemask. It was referring to the fact that had Starks not gotten inside push that Weeden wouldn't have been flushed to where Jordan could get him. Those kinds of sacks happen all the time. (Just without the facemask penalty.)
     
  2. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I understand, but I don't think he even records the sack without pulling him down by the facemask.
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I disagree. Grabbing the facemask was unfortunate, but it looked to me like Weeden would have went down anyway. Had Jordan's hand not caught the facemask he'd have grabbed the front of the jersey or the shoulder pads instead IMO and Weeden would have gone down just as easily.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I followed in his footsteps. The game day threads with all their asinine comments do not enhance my viewing pleasure. I prefer to wait til the game is over. Maybe check it at half time.
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I need to start doing that. Everything in that thread is either horrid or amazing. If Miami runs the ball 3 times and gains 8 yards, then the offense is terrible and unwatchable and the worst thing to ever happen since Hitler.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well said.
     
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  7. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Sounds like an utterly depressing way to watch the game.
     
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  8. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Yes. It will be very helpful next week if Luck throws a 60 yard pass between his legs while being pulled down by three defenders that drops in the WRs breadbasket as Cameron Worrell takes a picture
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    It is the worst when a great player makes a great play. Then everyone on the defense sucks and should be cut.
     
  10. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    It can be very rewarding too though. Game threads are their own organism
     
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  11. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Perhaps. I surely won't stand here and say he couldn't have without the face mask but I will say Starks was the beast on that play, Jordan performed Clean up duty. It certainly does get one excited how well that D-Line played. Looking forward to the Indy game, I think with all of our problems, it is another winable game.
     
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  12. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    It's true. But I find myself being sucked into it
     
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  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    It is like hanging out with 72 virgins, and all of them are suffering a visit from Aunt Flo.
     
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  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    [​IMG]

    That's RT at the top of his drop on the Bryant sack. Pretty Nice pocket there. No secret where the pressure is about to come from, a QB w/ better awareness may have stepped up and/or to the left to extend the play for a few more seconds.

    [​IMG]

    Another nice pocket. Clabo has Kruger in pretty much the same position Thomas had Jordan on your screenie. Again, plenty of room to step up, an open outlet in DThomas to RT's left. No way in hell this should have been a sack. Not sure how you come up w/ such different conclusions.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The thing I dislike most about Tannehill is that he rarely helps his offensive line. The Pathers were flowing into the backfield like the offensive line was a maccaroni strainer, however Wilson was able to work the pocket and make some magic happen on a fairly consistant basis.
     
  16. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Two things I notice about these two pictures.

    1. You have six guys blocking in a 4 man rush scenerio on both pictures. (That sucks balls when you are forced to do this)

    2. Clabo is getting manhandled on a bull rush.

    I wouldn't use these two pictures to justify good pass pro, although you are correct, there is a comfortable pocket going on in Picture 1. In Picture 2 Clabo is about to be pushed back into Tannehill.
     
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  17. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    don't forget the coaches and front office personnel. And that evil Ross guy.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    My read on it as well.

    The second one in particular, I think if anyone is trying to equate the status of Clabo-Kruger to the status of Thomas-Jordan in the still frame I showed before, then they're not being very honest. Watching the play in video form would show pretty clearly that Clabo is not holding his water against Kruger AT ALL, even if the still frame attempts to cleverly disguise the fact that Clabo is being put on skates. Yet, even the still frame shows subtle signs of it. Note the position of power that Kruger is in with his feet firmly on the ground and his hands levered underneath Clabo's upper body. Note the fact that Clabo's body is in an upright position, so elevated that he's actually got one foot off the ground.

    Hell I could look at the picture itself and tell that Ryan Tannehill is about to be sacked.

    Incidentally, Tannehill DID attempt to step up into the pocket, about 2.5 seconds into the play (which is a very short amount of time). Kruger had just so thoroughly defeated Tyson Clabo that it didn't matter. He had free access to Ryan no matter where he was in the pocket.

    As for the first picture, that's not really a clean pocket at all. Desmond Bryant is in the process of ***** slapping John Jerry out of the way en route to pressure up the middle that came simultaneously with pressure on the outside from Paul Kruger rushing over Tyson Clabo. You call that a clean pocket? Hell no.
     
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  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Yea, I definitely think that's one of the weaker aspects of his game. Deej is always talking about it and how good Wilson is at it. RT is too good of an athlete to not have better escapability.
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know where you're getting six men out of either of those pictures. It's five guys in both those pictures.
     
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  21. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    How can you tell much about anything in football.. Where the action is happening in micro seconds.. By a still picture. I'm not saying he's right or wrong.. I'm just saying a still shot like that is nothing to go on

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
  22. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Agreed. We all know he would find a way to blame the sack on Ireland.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Its like you're easy or something.....
     
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  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Both photos have an RB making a run for it. Without seeing the frames before, I'm not sure he was in to block and then took off.
     
  25. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Chippers.
     
  26. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Really? Watt has 5 sacks, 23 combined tackles, an INT and a TD in 4 postseason games. I don't consider that nothing.
     
  27. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Giving Jordan credit for a sack on a play that resulted in a first down because of a penalty on him is bizarre scorekeeping, IMO.

    It would be like giving a baseball player an RBI on a double play (which is not done).

    Now if he sacked the guy, and someone else hit him late, I can see the sack being credited....
     
  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Football is not as imaginary as baseball in that regard. He sacked him, lost yardage, but also gave them 15 yards from the spot of the foul/sack. If the rule was to give them 15 yards from the line of scrimmage, different story. Has to be listed that way. There aren't errors in football...just dumba** mistakes (tons more in football compared to baseball) that don't get counted as errors :)
     
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  29. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I do not think that Jordan sack was a particularly good play. Jordan was beat so handedly that he disengaged and went into spy mode. Weeden was flushed into him.

    I thought he was much better a few plays earier when he actually did beat Thomas and hurried the QB.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    So it is not a good play because Jordan did what he was supposed to do in that situation and ended up with a sack?

    Edit: While I am willing to come down from Great, though Weeden was looking right at him and if he didn't disengage and spy the quarterback, who is to say that Stark's pressure would have even flushed him out because he would have just thrown the ball, I don't see how people can argue that it is not a good play by Jordan.
     
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  31. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    He may have done what he was supposed to but it was still a play made by circumstance rather than a play made by beating his man in passrush.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Was he not part of the circumstances? There are plenty of things that he could have done to make that sack impossible. Like actually get pancaked, continued the outside rush getting pushed out of the play, or make an inside move which would have made both Starks and Jordan easy to avoid.

    I like to look at football as a team game and if circumstances help make a play due to the fact that the game is played as a team, causes a play, I still think that is a good thing.
     
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  33. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    You make total sense. My problem is this: We cannot call a play good, even if the guy did nothing but contain and the QB was flushed to him and he was gifted the sack by being a team containment guy, which is exactly why we didn't draft him, we already have Koa Misi for that, but I regress, we cannot call a play a good one - when you commit a personal foul making it.

    Thats the worst sack in recorded NFL history. Grats Dion!
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I disagree, that is one reason why we did draft him. Not 100% of the plays are going to be him rushing the passer. That isn't how football is played.

    If Weeden threw the ball and Dion blocked it, everyone would be calling it a good play. However since the quarterback was flushed and he was both quick enough and aware enough to make the tackle, then it is not a good play.

    However I do agree with the personal foul. That part does make it not a good play. However, calling it the worst sack in recorded history, when it is not even the first sack in recorded history with a facemask is really silly.
     
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  35. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Ok - I was a bit overboard, like I can get. You make sense about the team aspect, it really does function as such when you are a great team.

    I'll downgrade it to one of the worst sacks of all-time. Considering the penatly and the way in which he achieved the sack.

    Had it been "Wake Like" blazing around Thomas in a totally sick body angle in relation to the turf, while he whirled off Thomas and dove for Weeden in about a 1/2 second after the snap and accidentally caught his facemask....:yes:Ya baby.

    I want a Wake Book-end - not a containment facemask. :tongue2:


    I don't want to look at this crap offensive line all year and know we have a containment guy playing end for it. :no:

    There I go again... grrrr. I just can't help it - It frustrates me to no-end.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    While I agree that would have been a better play, I still think that containment guy who can get sacks when quarterback is flushed from the pocket was missing last season.

    Miami could have fixed the offensive line better in many ways than wasting another first round pick on a left tackle. I am still very happy they got Dion Jordan.
     
  37. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I am in total agreement with you on that. I thought the time to fix it was in free agency and have that flexibility with your 1st rounder. Even after they drafted Jordan, I thought he had Albert in the bag. Swinging and missing on everything - Miffs me, because then the last resort is using your 1st rounder in my eyes.

    You spent way to much money on skill players, to hang them to dry this season with a crap line. I hope nobody in that starting five goes down.
     
  38. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Don't get why people are dogging Jordan for staying in pursuit and finishing the play. It's not like he gave up on the play. That should be applauded. Worst sack of all time? lol... Never see Farce lay on the ground for his buddy Strahan? There are tons of examples of worst.

    As noted earlier in this thread, it's not Jordan's fault that Weeden cowered and tucked his chin and face mask into Jordan's grasp as Jordan was reaching to clutch his jersey. S**t happens. It wasn't intentional.

    I thought Jordan did a good job for basically a one armed rookie who had been getting mauled by the LT most his rushes - and the refs appeared to be letting the LT get away with hands to the face on him prior to that without calling it.
     
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  39. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    This!
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Other than inadvertently getting his hand on Weeden's facemask, Jordan did just fine on that play as far as I'm concerned. Could he have done better? Sure. But to call it a negative play regardless of the facemask is wrong IMO.
     

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