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Pff refo

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phoenician Fan, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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  2. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Why because he said Tannehill didnt do that bad of a job?

    Its funny...yet again he grades out high..WHILE LEARNING A NEW OFFENSE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 7 YEARS....but now all the sudden..PFF's stats are junk. Second week in a row...
     
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  3. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    PFF is divorced from football.
     
  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    PFF is vouched for by countless professionals...not perfect, but a good tool to use with other analysis.

    A day after the game and after re-watching several of the plays...he really wasn't the dumpster fire many were saying he was. It sure felt like a poor showing at some points, but he did make a lot of good throws too.
     
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  5. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Honestly...

    For all you ready to throw Tannehill under the bus....if PFF had come out with stats that showed he played bad....youd be all over them..SEE SEE....I TOLD YOU SO.

    But, when the game tape is actually broken down...and you find that...oh guess what..he actually didnt play that bad, now all the sudden PFF is junk.
     
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  6. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You so much better when you provide some kind of someeetthinngggggggggggg when you post.

    Please...explain in your opinion why you think these stats are junk?
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I will say this...PFF doesn't account for off target balls, does it? I mean, a completion is a completion for PFF. However, when watching the games this season, Tannehill has had numerous balls that while caught, weren't put in the right place, and it affected receivers abilities to gain YAC. I like Tannehill, and badly want him to be the answer, but he definitely needs to step it up. I'm hoping that some of the accuracy issues on short balls are simply him adjusting to a new offense...but who knows.
     
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  8. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    He may have graded well but that is because their system relies on +1 or -1 on every play. According to them they hardly ever use -2 or +2.

    However the plays Tannehill missed were disasterous. He had 2-3 TDs he just made horrible throws on. It didn't help that Miller dropped a huge gain later on but it doesn't excuse Ryan.
     
  9. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    I feel so much better about the Phins playing like crap now that I've read that.
     
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  10. Dolfan330

    Dolfan330 My wein is so chaffed...

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    How about the 2-3 dropped TD passes? If you're going to be critical of Tannehill, be critical of the receivers as well. We're not harping on his poorly placed balls as much if his perfectly placed ones are caught for TDs.
     
  11. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sure but then when you look at every other QBs grades..they should be unusually high as well correct?
     
  12. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    LOL at a 3.0 score. No pass rush but the Bills OL grades poorly?
     
  13. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    The other question I believe you have to look at is..what is truly a good measure of nall placement. For example 17 had x amount of completions..of which x were considered excellent ball placement..x were considered average..and x were considered poor. Lets say...30 percent are excellent..40 percent are avg..and 30 percent were poor.

    Whats a good benchmark? We use 60 percent for completions..4000 for yards.etc..what is a good bechmark for ball placement. See..we hyper analyze every one of 17s throws..but who knows how every other qb is doing..so you cant have an accurate comparison.
     
  14. Kingtut561

    Kingtut561 New Member

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    Lol this is the icing on the cake. We have our franchise QB? Hmmmm.
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Only if when watching them play, it looks like they have some suspect ball placement. I completely understand that not every throw is going to be exactly perfect. However, Tannehill has had a bunch of passes in the last couple games that are just downright horrible, to go along with his just off the mark ones. I try to view the team through aqua colored glasses, and I'm a huge Tannehill supporter...I was also a huge Henne supporter, and thought that every year the next year would be the breakout year...and it never happened. I really REALLY hope that isn't how it goes for Tannehill, however, the start to this season is really less than promising. Having watched the game, I can't with a straight face act like Tannehill was really all that good yesterday. Sure, he had some drops. All QB's suffer those. And I will freely admit, the dropped balls hurt so bad, as it makes his bad ones even worse. Problem is, for every perfect pass that Tanne has that is dropped, he has three or four (speculation no stats for that) off target throws that prevent the receiver from getting YAC, or even from catching the ball. He needs to get that under control. If he doesn't, he's not long for this team, IMO.
     
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  16. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    But any pass that is catchable is not downright horrible. Off target throws arent horrible. Missing over the back stop is horrible
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've been noticing lately there have been BIG swings in the PFF grades when you go from the initial grading to about a week later when someone higher has reviewed the grades and changed them.

    IMO as PFF is trying to scale up, they're running into consistency issues in their process.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The offense which scored only 10 points in the game got a +3.2 overall grade. The defense which allowed 22 points got a +14.6 overall cumulative grade.

    Meanwhile, the San Diego Chargers offense scored 30 points on the scoreboard. None of that was special teams. Yet cumulatively PFF graded them a -3.9.

    That's when you know grade inflation and consistency issues are creeping into your process. Things like this happen when you expand.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Bears scored 28 points last night on offense. Their cumulative offensive grade was a -1.2 whereas ours was a +3.2.

    The Jets scored 24 points and they graded -3.8.

    The Cowboys scored 24 points and they graded -6.6.

    The Cardinals scored 25 points and graded -15.6.

    The Patriots scored 30 points and graded -2.7.

    The Panthers scored 24 points and graded -3.4.

    These offenses doubled or even tripled our score yet they all graded negatively while Miami graded significantly better.

    That's when you know something is wrong with your process.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Never have I said that all off target throws are horrible. However, Tannehill has had several throws in the last two games that I would classify as "horrible." And I'm not talking about bombs at Wallace, or other receivers, I'm talking about 5-15 yard throws. He has had A TON of off target throws, that while caught, left the receiver in a place where he could not catch the ball in stride, and thus killed the play after the catch was made.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    LOL now you see what I'm talking about.

    PFF has already changed Tannehill's +3.0 for the game to +1.0.

    See what I mean by big swings in the scoring after they start going through reviews?
     
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  22. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Read my posts in other threads. I have given them blame. However even if you add in the one dropped pass that could have been a TD this week (Miller) Tannehill was still awful.
     
  23. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    No but I can watch other QBs and notice their ball placement has been significantly better. I hope Tannehill turns it around but honestly there was no silver lining in his play.
     
  24. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think we must realize how shockingly rare it is for NFL receivers to drop the passes that Sims, Clay, Hartline and Miller have dropped the past two weeks.

    PFF accounts as if Tannehill made those plays whereas the receiver missed the play. There's some belief that some of these horrible misfires (ie Gibson) were actually wrong routes by the receiver.

    Bottom line, I don't think any player in the NFL is under as much microscopic scrutiny from the fan base as Tannehill. I just don't see how this will translate into longterm success for the player here. He strikes me as the type of player that will be run out of Miami only to rise up (hopefully not NE) and reach his potential elsewhere.
     
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  25. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think you are missing a long gimme that went through Hartline's hands
     
  26. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If you look solely at the PFF grades you would think we beat them by 14.
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sometimes common sense prevails ...
     
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Personally I have been stating for the past few years that PFF ratings are a bunch of junk.

    Stats like PFF mean absolutely nothing. The eye test is what counts and the eye test yesterday clearly showed that Tannehill was a below average QB and was outplayed by the second year QB of the Bills, who also had a very average game.
     
  29. cdnfinfan

    cdnfinfan New Member

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    I sometimes think if you guys ONLY watch tannehill and the dolphins. Cuz I watch a lot of football and I see a lot qb's making bad throws, even the great ones. Probably just as many as tannehill too.

    I watched that jets and packers games and the amount of passes arod threw that receivers had to go low on or readjust would just have this board going crazy if it was tannehill.
     
  30. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    That wasn't a TD and even if it was it still doesn't excuse the other throws. You don't get to play terrible, make two throws and everything is okay.

    FWIW There was nothing special about the pass to Miller. It was a defensive breakdown and a throw you'd better make.
     
  31. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    How was that not a TD?
     
  32. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    As well we are dealing with mis-timed and wrong depth routes. The issues are not just Tannehill and I tend to think some of the bad misfires have more to do with the above than some inability to throw the football.
     
  33. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    Don't worry - he'll get run out of town and will end up in Tampa, Arizona or Cleveland and end up an all-pro.
     
  34. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    I agree...but you never hear that from most others..
     
  35. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    That was almost guaranteed TD.
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    If you look at the Special Teams grades for the game, they certainly pass the eyeball test. Fields (shanks), Landry (facemask ball) and Williams (blew the block on the blocked punt) are the bottom three.

    Further, the grades that were high for the defensive players mainly came out of run defense, which to me also fits...we pretty much had the run stopped except for the 1 breakout big run. No defender did better than average in pass coverage. Grimes at +.7 and Jenkins at +.5 were the best there.

    Top 4 grades on offense were Albert +3.7, James +3.2, Williams +2.2, Satele +1.6. Think that's fair. Williams sure looked better than Miller IMHO.

    Seems like once the stats go through QC, they're much better. Maybe they shouldn't be in such a rush to have them out before QC.
     
  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's because PFF plays make-believe with the stats, then adjusts them accordingly. For example, if a receiver drops a ball, they give the QB credit for completing that pass and it's yardage in their final grade. If a TD pass is dropped, they receive credit there too. On the other hand, they don't penalize poorly thrown passes if they're caught, and they don't penalize heavily for sacks, poor reads, missing open receivers or dozens of other factors.

    In the end, it just so happens that Tannehill's dropped passes are enough to put him ahead of most QB's, but it is also very biased towards innaccurate QB's since they get credit whether the pass is actually completed or not. I'm sorry, but you can't base stats on things that didn't happen.
     
  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I specifically remember against TB in the pre-season, where Tannehill was docked for that stuff...poor reads, missed opportunities and inaccuracy. He was in the negative in the red for that game.
     
  39. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Tannehill has always had issues with drops, batted balls, and ball placement. Even in college.
     
  40. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Going back to PFF grades, Earl Mitchell is their TOP rated DT after 2 weeks: https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...king-a-big-splash-on-dolphins-defensive-line/

    Brandon Albert is the TOP rated OT: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/16/top-10-offensive-tackles/

    And James is ranked #6 as well.


    PFF also has this interesting article defending Tannehill and their ranking him as the #3 rated QB after 2 weeks: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/17/analysis-notebook-week-2-3/

     
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