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Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Vendigo, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Maybe I've missed it or didn't read closely enough but with all the talk about Smith and Oher and the other Smith, there's preciously little talk about Phil Loadholt. I know the knack on him is that he's lacking the kind of agility to actually play LT at the next level but after watching him more closely, I have to say ... man, I don't know. He has pretty darn quick feet for a man this massive and he looks like he's got very solid technique in pass protection too. No need to talk about run blocking, because the guy's a beast and blocking with a mean streak to boot. Sure, I'd be worried about him handling the rush from the outside in the pros, but at the very worst, he looks like a very solid right tackle with some potential to eventually switch over to the left side. I definitely think he could sneak into the end of the first round. I'm really looking forward to seeing him tonight. Thoughts?
     
  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I don't have any thoughts on him as a player but I've visited the eagles board a few times and some of their guys want to pick him up with one of their #1s. Both their tackles (especially Runyan) are getting up there in age and they'll need to be replaced sooner rather than later.
     
  3. Motion

    Motion New Member

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    Looking forward to seeing him go up against Carlos Dunlap and Brandon Spikes tonight.
     
  4. RealDriscoll

    RealDriscoll Banned

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    Loadholt could be a very good Right Tackle
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Looking forward to that as well, especially Spikes (who did some real damage against Andre Smith).

    To me, I don't even know if Loadholt is a RT. Maybe a Guard, but you usually don't want your Guards that big.

    Loadholt has tended to turn me off every time I have watched.
     
  6. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Care to elaborate please? I haven't seen as much of him as I'd like to because it's hard to get college games over here but from the little I've seen, I liked him quite a lot. Which is why I would appreciate some feedback of people who had the opportunity to watch more of him.
     
  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    The thing is, if you can absorb him initially getting his hands on you, a DE can have his way with him. What I mean in layman's terms is this: if he stops your forward progress he wins the battle a majority of the time. When he doesn't influence a defenders movement, in any direction he loses. He engulfs players, he cannot react well to redirects when done with power and conviction. A violent DE like #97 Heyward for OSU would eat him alive I would think.

    I think he leans into his block a little too much also which can leave him reaching, and being top heavy. Thats the quick assessment.
     
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  8. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    If we're going to go huge, why not go all the way- Herman Johnson. Yeah, he's big for a Guard (he's big for anything) but he's another masher that would probably fit with what this team wants to do at OL. Beat the crap out of people.
     
  9. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I quite like big Phil but his footwork and lack of balance is pretty average at times. He has massive arms and can block you silly going forwards, but at times he looks like a jelly on a merry go round going the other way. I think he holds up to a bullrush very well because he's such a beast sizewise, but a guy with double moves will really hurt him. If you get too close he swats you way with those big mitts. But as Travis says, you can get at him if you set him up. I think Trent Williams on the other side has much better feet than big Phil.
     
  10. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Johnson is a good player, but when I researched the average height to weight ratio of all the O-line draft choices under Mike Maser's watch, it came to a 4.02.

    There are a few players that don't fall right into that category, and I don't think it is definitive. But, the weights of many of these players are very similar over time. Just over 300 lbs.

    I don't think Herman Johnson would be a guy we'd look at if history repeats itself.

    Here is what I had written about it a while ago:


    I decided to do some research on my own regarding Mike Maser as it pertains to his selection of offensive lineman in the draft. I have based this on going back to 1995 and ending in 2005, which spans his coaching career with Jacksonville (1995-2002) and Carolina (2002-2005). It should be noted that Maser worked with Chris Palmer in Jacksonville, and Dan Henning in Carolina. (I just did that to refresh your collective memory, in case some forgot the correlation)
    I garnered this information from NFL.com in case any wish to check it out and make sure I didn’t leave anyone off. Anyway here is the list:
    Jacksonville:
    1995: Tony Boselli, OT USC – Round 1 #2 overall
    Brian DeMarco, OT Michigan St. – Round 2 #40 overall
    Marcus Price, OT Louisiana St. – Round 6 #172 overall

    1996: Michael Cheever, 6’ 295lbs. C Georgia Tech – Round 2 #60 overall
    Jimmy Herndon, 6’8” 318lbs. OT Houston – Round 5 #146 overall

    1997: None

    1998: John Wade, 6’5” 299lbs. C Marshall – Round 4 #101 overall

    1999: None

    2000: Brad Meester, 6’3” 300lbs. G Northern Iowa – Round 2 #60 overall
    Joey Chustz, OT Louisiana Tech – Round 4 #123 overall
    Mark Baniewicz 6’5” 303lbs. OT Syracuse – Round 7 #247 overall

    2001: Maurice Williams, 6’5” 315lbs. OT Michigan – Round 2 #43 overall
    Chad Ward, G Washington – Round 6 #170 overall

    2002: Mike Pearson, 6’7” 297lbs. OT Florida – Round 2 #40 overall


    Carolina:

    2003: Jordan Gross, 6’4” 300lbs. OT Utah – Round 1 #8 overall
    Bruce Nelson 6’5” 301lbs. C Iowa – Round 2 #50 overall

    2004: Travelle Wharton 6’4” 312lbs. G South Carolina - Round 3 #94 overall

    2005: Evan Mathis 6’5” 304lbs. G Alabama - Round 3 #79 overall
    Geoff Hangartner 6’5” 301lbs. C Texas A&M – Round 5 #169 overall
    Joe Berger 6’5” 304lbs. T Michigan Tech – Round 6 #304 overall

    2006: Rashard Butler 6’4” 293lbs. OT Miami (Fl) – Round 3 #89 overall
    Will Montgomery 6’3” 312lbs. G Virginia Tech – Round 7 #234 overall

    In all 20 O-lineman were taken during this time, and 11 of which were taken in the third round or higher. I also feel compelled to mention that all of the O-lineman taken whilst he was in Carolina fit in Dan Henning’s offense. Both men were there for the same amount of time essentially.

    What should also be readily apparent is the size of the lineman drafted. There are no Leonard Davis’s or Bryant McKinnie’s. In fact the average height works out to be: 6’3.5” and 303.6lbs*. Also if we take those measurements and do a height to weight ratio we would show a 4.02.

    *(please note there 5 O-lineman that I do not have height and weights for so the average is for 15 O-lineman).

    Hardly earth movers or road graders here, more so it appears being athletic and mobile appear to be the name of the game. Such numbers support the recent roster purge of O-lineman; Shelton and Hadnot and our recent addition; Smiley and rumored additions; Fabini and Maurice Williams. The only real big guy is Carey, and even he slimmed down to a pretty low weight for him. All in all it appears that the trend in taking smaller (weight wise) more athletic O-lineman will continue.

    Taking the numerical evidence gleamed from the info above I decided to glance over the O-lineman available in this year’s draft that fit this prototype. I tried NFlDraftCountdown.com but it didn’t have all the statistical information, so I used WalterFootball.com and FootballsFuture.com as guides for the numbers as they appear to be accurate. Here is what I came up with:


    Tackles

    Jake Long, Michigan
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 313.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.00.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.17.
    Benchx225: 37.
    Height to Weight: 3.96
    10 yd Split Time: 1.75


    Ryan Clady, Boise State
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 309.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
    Combine 40 Time: Did not run.
    Benchx225: 24.
    Height to Weight: 3.96

    Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 315.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.13.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.07.
    Arm: 32 7/8. Benchx225: 21
    Height to Weight: 4.03
    10 yd Split Time: 1.87


    Sam Baker, USC
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 309.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.01.
    Combine 40 Time: Did not run.
    Arm: 32 3/8. Benchx22
    Height to Weight: 4.06 (rd)


    Gosder Cherilus, Boston College
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 315.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.08.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.21.
    Arm: 35 5/8. Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 4.03
    10 yd Split Time: 1.76


    Anthony Collins, Kansas
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 317.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.98.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.53.
    Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 4.11


    Tony Hills, Texas
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 301.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.99.
    Combine 40 Time: Did not run.
    Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 3.86 (ru)


    John Greco, Toledo
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 305.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.31.
    Benchx225: 30.
    Height to Weight: 3.96


    Oniel Cousins, UTEP
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 308.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.96.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.11.
    Arm: 34 7/8. Benchx225: 23
    Height to Weight: 4.05


    Jeremy Zuttah, Rutgers
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 303.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.06.
    Combine 40 Time: 4.99.
    Benchx225: 35.
    Height to Weight: 4.04
    10 yd Split Time: 1.85


    Kirk Barton, Ohio State
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 310.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.08.
    Combine 40 Time: Did not run.
    Arm: 33 1/4. Benchx225: 34.
    Height to Weight: 4.07



    Bobby Byrd, Washington State
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 315.
    40 Time: 5.29.
    Height to Weight: 3.98


    Corey Clark, Texas A&M
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 317.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.07.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.41.
    Benchx225: 25.
    Height to Weight: 4.06


    Tyler Polumbus, Colorado
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 312.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.15.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.33.
    Arms: 32 4/8. Benchx225: 24.
    Height to Weight: 3.95 (ru)


    Charles Manu, Nevada
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 300.
    40 Time: 5.18.
    Height to Weight: 4.0


    David Hale, Weber State
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 308.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.19.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.27.
    Benchx225: 25.
    Height to Weight: 3.95 (ru)


    Guards

    Branden Albert, Virginia
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 309.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.19.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.17.
    Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 4.01
    10 yd Split Time: 1.71


    Roy Schuening, Oregon State
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 306.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.34.
    Arm: 32 7/8. Benchx225: 26
    Height to Weight: 4.08
    10 yd Split Time: 1.91


    Drew Radovich, USC
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 301.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.09.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.21.
    Arm: 33 1/2. Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 3.96


    Mike McGlynn, Pittsburgh
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 309.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.28.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.36.
    Arm: 32 7/8. Benchx225: 29
    Height to Weight: 4.06


    Eric Young, Tennessee
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 310.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.08.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.03.
    Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 4.13


    Shannon Tevaga, UCLA
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 316.
    40 Time: 5.28
    Height to Weight: 4.21


    Chad Rinehart, Northern Iowa
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 317.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.08.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.41.
    Arm: 33 1/8. Benchx225:
    Height to Weight: 4.11


    Robert Felton, Arkansas
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 315.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.38.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.46.
    Arm: 34. Benchx225: 22
    Height to Weight: 4.20


    Donald Thomas, Connecticut
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 303.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.88.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.00.
    Benchx225: 28
    Height to Weight: 4.04
    10 yd Split Time: 1.78


    Kirk Elder, Texas A&M
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 305.
    40 Time: 5.15
    Height to Weight: 3.96


    Brandon Rodd, Arizona State
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 303.
    40 Time: 5.19
    Height to Weight: 3.98

    Tad Miller, Boise State
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 304.
    40 Time: 5.20
    Height to Weight: 4.0


    Leon Hart, Auburn
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 301.
    40 Time: 5.00.
    Height to Weight: 3.96


    Kerry Brown, Appalachian State
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 310.
    40 Time: 5.16
    Height to Weight: 3.97


    Mike Gibson, California
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 310.
    40 Time: 5.17
    Height to Weight: 4.07


    Shawn Murphy, Utah State
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 305.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.99.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.32.
    Benchx225: 29
    Height to Weight: 4.01


    James Blair, Western Michigan
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 337.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.41.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.33.
    Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 4.43 (Only on here b/c we spoke to him at combine)


    Robert Gustavis, Arizona State
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 303.
    40 Time: 5.32
    Height to Weight: 4.04


    Edwin Harrison, Colorado
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 300.
    40 Time: 5.33
    Height to Weight: 3.94


    Michael Galassi, Walsh
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 305.
    40 Time: 5.19
    Height to Weight: 4.01

    Centers

    Mike Pollak, Arizona State
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 299.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.92. Combine 40 Time: 4.98.
    Arm: 31 1/2. Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 3.98


    Steve Justice, Wake Forest
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 293.
    Projected Projected 40 Time: 5.06. Combine 40 Time: 5.22.
    Arm: 31 1/2. Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 3.90


    John Sullivan, Notre Dame
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 301.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.05. Combine 40 Time: 5.40.
    Arm: 31 1/8. Benchx225: 21
    Height to Weight: 4.01
    10 yd Split Time: 1.93


    Doug Legursky, Marshall
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 311.
    40 Time: 5.22
    Height to Weight: 4.14


    Cody Wallace, Texas A&M
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 296.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.22. Combine 40 Time: 5.27.
    Arm: 33 3/8. Benchx225: 26
    Height to Weight: 3.89
    10 yd Split Time: 1.84


    Jamey Richard, Buffalo
    Height: 6-4. Weight: 301.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.22. Combine 40 Time: 5.22.
    Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 3.96


    Kory Lichtensteiger, Bowling Green
    Height: 6-2. Weight: 298.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.16. Combine 40 Time: 5.19.
    Arm: 30 7/8. Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 4.02


    Robbie Powell, Purdue
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 307.
    40 Time: 5.08
    Height to Weight: 3.98


    Matt Spanos, USC
    Height: 6-5. Weight: 305.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.17. Combine 40 Time: 5.50.
    Benchx225
    Height to Weight: 3.96
    10 yd Split Time: 2.00


    Robbie Krutilla, Western Michigan
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 308.
    40 Time: 5.26
    Height to Weight: 4.10


    Adam Spieker, Missouri
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 305.
    40 Time: 5.14
    Height to Weight: 4.06


    Marcus Coleman, Wisconsin
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 302.
    40 Time: 5.14
    Height to Weight: 3.87


    Juan Garica, Washington
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 315.
    40 Time: 5.11.
    Height to Weight: 4.20


    Nick Allotta, Colorado State
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 305.
    40 Time: 5.22
    Height to Weight: 4.06


    Chris Yoder, Texas A&M
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 299.
    40 Time: 5.14
    Height to Weight: 3.98


    In case anyone was curious Smiley’s height to weight is 4.14, Maurice Williams; a guy we have apparently targeted in FA works out to be 4.09. Jason Fabini works out to be 3.91. Obviously the numbers are an approximation and will not be used as the sole source of drafting a guy over another, but it still has some merit. What the evidence shows me at least is that we want guys who are not too big to be mobile and active. Yet, they have to be strong enough to get the job done.

    If anyone is curious as to how the other guys who are actually on the roster stack up:
    Samson Satele: 6’3” 300lbs - Height to Weight: 4.0

    Gene Mruczkowski: 6’2” 305lbs – Height to Weight: 4.12

    Ikechuku Ndukwe: 6’4” 338lbs – Height to Weight: 4.44

    Drew Mormino: 6’4” 301lbs – Height to Weight: 3.96

    Trey Darilek: 6’5” 310lbs – Height to Weight: 4.02

    Julius Wilson 6’4” 327lbs – Height to Weight: 4.30

    Vernon Carey 6’5” 335lbs – Height to Weight: 4.35


    As you can see the only guy who starts whose Height to Weight is high is Vernon Carey.

    Now, in my opinion there are a few guys I personally would like us to consider:
    Anthony Collins, Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeremy Zuttah, Oniel Cousins, John Greco, Brandon Albert, Roy Schuening, Brandon Rodd, Donald Thomas, Chad Rinehart, Mike McGlynn, Robert Felton, Mike Pollak, Shannon Tevaga and Steve Justice.
     
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  11. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Different position, same team- I like Duke Robinson more than Loadholt. The size, his aggression, good movement- already got a penalty being too aggressive tonight, but I like the guy. It's a simplistic approach, but you can tell quickly that the dude looks like a stud player. His size/power/aggressiveness fits our style.
     
  12. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    It's an interesting study, but this is a search for football players, not fibonacci sequences. Either the dude can play or he can't. I wonder what Leonard Davis' ratio is, and they paid huge money to get him. There are probably a lot of 6-4, 325 lb guys working as bouncers all over the place- I don't have a problem with a size template, but I also don't have a problem with deviation from the norm. A guy may be a little tall, a little heavy whatever, can he get the job done for our style of offense? I would think that that is the main focus of concern.
     
  13. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I like the looks of Spikes and McCoy, too. I'm also watching this game and thinking how foolish it would be for Tebow to have a conventional 7 step drop into the pocket- that sideways crab like movement isn't pretty, but it's what he should be doing- seeing the field from the snap, deciding run/pass, pass/run. It makes sense. So he'll be pass first run second in the pros and they'll train him from day one to take a conventional drop. I don't see the big deal.
     
  14. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Well numbers are important as they yield information regarding trends and probabilities. Each regime has archetypes for players they draft, and that is quantified via numbers. Fabinacci sequence or not.

    I think it's pretty clear that Jerry Jones makes the deicsions in Dallas as far as FA signings. I mean, do you think that this regime would also target TO say for a WR spot? He too was signed to Dallas when this regime was in place.

    I have no idea what the bouncer sentence means to be honest.

    This just highlighted what happened under Maser's watch as an O-line coach as he has a say who he likes. The players we drafted this past year seem to fit that mold too. Also, even more importantly we have a RG that BP is on record as saying was a 'Godsend', and a LG that we just paid 25 million to as well. Johnson may be a too early an investment in what may be a backup G.

    It might be nice to stock on that talent like that, but that is a luxury really don't you think? I don't think the team has luxury picks right now for a G that high as he probably would be.
     
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  15. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Why are you so sure that Donald Thomas is going to be all that? I'm hopeful, but far from sure. And Smiley- big injuries, significant injury history. What happens next year if there's a problem with one or both of them? We need better Guards, starters and back ups. I'm in the minority on this one, but if we went O with the 1st 3 picks I'd be fine with that.

    Maser might have a pattern, but free agency is an avenue where you go out and get what you want- more pure in tems of preferences and desires than the draft, where in the absense of a costly trade up you're at the mercy of your pick. And in Dallas these guys, Parcells, Ireland et al, chose Davis and chose to pay him dearly- what is he, 6-5 375? Like Herman Johnson.

    The bouncer sentence means that there are a lot of guys out there in every day life with the ideal size ratio that you're looking for, guys that couldn't make it in the NFL despite having the numbers that apparently Maser likes. I'd rather have a great player than a guy with a great height/weight ratio. A pattern of selection doesn't mean that they're tied to the preference or constrained by it. It's a good study though, interesting.
     
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  16. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    I don't know these guys chose Davis in Dallas as Jerry Jones is the GM. None of them could overrule him in that capacity. Parcells didn't want Terrence Newman, but Jerry did and Newman was picked. I agree that we should look to add some competition at G, but not that high. We know what we have in Ndukwe and Alleman, so we can make decisions regarding their futures better I think in comparison to the potential they see in draftees.

    How is FA more pure and preferences and desires than the draft? Teams are built through the draft, not FA. Daniel Snyder had to learn the hard way; he tried many times and failed. This team has even tried it, and again failed. The Jets? FA messups can cost you much more dearly than draft picks over time I think. If you are wrong as often in FA as you are in the draft; successful teams are at about 40% over the long haul it will cripple your franchise. You can still sign FA as the league mandates a rookie pool only for rookies, FA's don't get that garaunteed pool of money. Plus low rounders who pan out are far less expensive than even run of the mill FA, as they have base salaries due to time served that are higher than rookies low on the totem pole.

    Parcells said he was a Godsend, not I. I think he has potential, but he only played 1 game all year. But I think he is better than Ndukwe in terms of his ability to jolt defenders. And that would have helped this year as we tried to run up the middle.
     
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  17. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Well then maybe you should focus on the patterns of the guys actually making the picks, Ireland and Parcells, rather than Maser. Re: free agency and the draft- all teams can go after who they want in FA, there's no order of selection. The variables are cash on hand and the player's desire to play for that organization. If you have an archetypal player in mind in the draft and he's a top five player but your picking #20, good luck. In other words, for the most part you're free to go after who you want in FA- there's no order of selection to hinder you.

    I just respectfully disagree with your thesis, at least in part- for example, if a team has a track record of picking QB's who go about 6-2, 200 lbs. and they have a choice between Graham Harrell and Sam Bradford (or Stafford for that matter) are they going to choose Harrell? Ain't gonna happen. They're going to take Bradford because he's a better prospect, it's that simple. I don't care if he's a 3.2 or 4.2. That being said, I like Harrell quite a bit.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Thankfully, football leaves you with more than one hole to fill most of the time, so you can look elsewhere. Chances are there is someone there who will fill a hole at 20.

    I can say that if people didn't chose players that fit an archetype then there wouldn't be one to begin with, it just shows patterns. And if numbers weren't important then why do scouts and others compile them against what they consider to be acceptable numbers for positions. They are comparing numbers based on what they look for, but not solely obviously,.......but numbers do have a good deal to do with it.

    Also simply saying Bradford is the best prospect isn't that simple. A guy could be the best prospect, but not the best prospect for a particular team. For instance, was Jake Long the best prospect in this year's draft as a pure LT? Nope. Ryan Clady would be the guy most would give that tag. But Clady wasn't the first player chosen in the draft.
     
  19. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Long was chosen to play LT (that was clearly stated by the FO) and was chosen 1st- Clady was chosen what, 12? And you think that the Dolphins considered Clady a better LT prospect? Are you serious? Brother please...

    And the Bradford comment- come on, think about it. Hypothesis: a team has the 1st overall pick and wants a QB. Their QB size archetype is 6-0, 225. They can choose between Bradford and Chase Daniel- what do they do? I have a very good idea, and I think that you do , too.

    You pretty much lost me with your Clady example. Let's just say that we each have our own opinions. On that note, I'm going to watch the rest of the game and go to bed. Over and out.
     
  20. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    IF there are only two options, then out of those two Bradford - sure. The only issue is that is a drastic oversimplification on that there is only only pick to to choose a QB, and that there aren't 20 others in the mix as well.

    Clady is a much better pass protector; hence the pure LT classification. I never said the Dolphins did think that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. If you can find me where I said the Dolphins think Clady is a better LT prospect please show me.

    Yes we do have our own ones; equidistant apart.

    Enjoy.
     
  21. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I really liked Duke Robinson before this game as well. I just wonder about his Pass Protection after this game. While I watched the game with a bunch of friends and wasn't paying full attention to the game, from what I saw he really seemed to struggle in that department tonight. That play where the DT completely got him turned around, so he had to Hold (and got called for it) is replaying in my head over and over. I know it was only one play, but if a team can get pressure up the middle it collapses the pocket; which greatly improves the chances for a sack and/or something else good happening for the defense.

    When Jacksonville had both Henderson and Stroud it was incredible to watch them. They completely shut down runs up the middle and were both good Pass Rushers especially for DT's. With both of them on the same team it was impossible to Double Team them both so teams had to pick their poison, so to speak. Man it was fun to watch them.
     
  22. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Robinson struggles on the move and at LG in our system, you need a mobile guy in there.
     
  23. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be fair, Leonard Davis was a Jerry Jones decision.
     
  24. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'll take your word for it. Maybe it was Jones' decision and Parcells/Ireland agreed with it, who knows. Regardless, patterns do give a clue of someone's decision making process and cycle of behavior. But patterns and pattern recognition is more of an alchemy than a pure science- ask CK sometime how he approaches pattern recognition in what he does, and whether it's used as a guide or an absolute. You can refer to the term technical analysis.
     
  25. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Parcells had left the Cowboys long before Davis was signed.
     
  26. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    To be honest about it, it's neither here nor there to me. If team likes a certain size at a certain position, it's called a preference or tendency. And that's all it is.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm lamenting it, but I didn't really have a chance to watch last night's game critically. Did Spikes ever end up on Loadholt for a rush? I actually figure they would be happy letting Dunlap and Hicks go up on him.
     
  28. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I only noticed once on 4th down with like 2:38 left in the 4th. He faked outside then moved back in real quick. looked like he had Phil beat, but the ball got out kind of quick.
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He would have to play RG for us I guess.
     
  30. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yep. Can't see him playing the left side. Not in our system.

    Who do you like on the OL mate? Your OL analysis beats the pants off anyone elses.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thanks, but I think Con is the OL guru around here and I gladly defer to his wisdom in that regard.
    But since you asked, OLs I would like...Max Unger for any position but LT since that is set. He'd be my choice in round 1. I also like Alex Mack in round 1 or 2,
    and if we landed the pair like jim1 suggested in a post, I would be positively giddy. Few centers ever have been the run blocking beast that Mack shows. His tendency to get too upright off the snap in pass pro worries me not in the least. A technique problem that will be cured in two practice sessions. Max is just really efficient. He seems to keep his man out of the play with little perceived effort. He has the technique down to a science.

    Herman Johnson in round 2 for a RG would be someone that I'd like to see. He seems to move, sustain and show decent balance for someone so frigging huge. Again like the Duke he'd have to move from the left side. Interesting how both the mammouth guards are left guard in college. I like both Bama prospects. Smith in round 1 IF we lose Carey especially and if we didn't lose Carey could you imagine a right side of Carey inside at guard next to Smith?
    I don't see the complaints about Loadholt if we could move him to the right side and would consider him in the 3rd or maybe late 2nd depending on what happens from here on out. At times he shows he can pass block well enough on the left side. Needs more consistency on technique perhaps or better endurance which pro workout programs should give him.

    Which brings a question, why last night when the Sooners have a 3rd and then a 4th and one yard to go for a TD, doesnt Bradford just sneak it two times right behind Loadholt and Robinson? Or a quick FB dive right behind them? They seemed to want to go outside the tackle, plays that weren't quick hitting and then allowed penetration because of the time needed to develop.

    Caldwell would be a very nice choice in 2nd or 3rd if we don't get Unger or Mack. Alabama centers...

    You mentioned Andy Levitre, I like him too and so did Jacquizz, and he would be someone who seems to get overlooked a little now, but could be moving up before the draft and his versatility will help him too. I also like him in the 3rd now and if he works out really well, could be a late 2nd to me.

    Anyone who says Johnson is too tall for guard, or Loadholt wouldn't be good to move there because of his height, I got two words for them. Kevin. Gogan. A nasty mauling 6'7" plus guard who made a few pro bowls ten years ago. Tall guards don't hurt if they can move laterally. Passing lanes...

    Like Con said though, I think it was Con anyway, Maser seems to prefer guys who have some movement skills and can man block, more than the gigantic zone blocking maulers...so any talk of Johnson, Loadholt, Robinson, etc, may be for naught. I like a mixture, one guard who is adept at pulling, trapping, etc, and another one who can move the earth. Smiley would work well with a stronger center and a massive mauling RG, IMO.
    Then again the idea of Unger and Mack with the former at RG next to Carey would be thrilling to me. It would be nice to have some quality depth on the OL. I hope we keep Carey.

    I would like to see us address the interior a couple of times in the first 3-4 rounds and if we let Carey walk and don't sign a free agent OT then OT is a need too.
     
  32. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Here are some Herman Johnson clips- a little Ciron Black as well for Aqua. Re: the LG comment earlier, Johnson pulls pretty well imo for a very large man:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D611DCJRjOM"]YouTube - OG Herman Johnson & OT Ciron Black Highlights LSU vs App. St[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbC0K0tXvK4"]YouTube - LG Herman Johnson Highlights LSU vs SC 10/18/08[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHKM84i_fw"]YouTube - LG Herman Johnson Highlights LSU vs UGA 2008[/ame]

    He speaks well, too, which I like:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFlCarXVLr0"]YouTube - Herman Johnson Interview 11/17/08[/ame]

    A little more from 2007:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUwex3A9n_c"]YouTube - THE 2007 LSU OFFENSE[/ame]
     
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