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Philbin accepts responsibility for causing distraction

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CaribPhin, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pretty much, Philbin says he messed up, but, can you give me a different way to put the pressure squarely on your qb's shoulders? Cause I believe we've reached that point...no big deal man, Qb's have had to endure a check here and there, let's see how he responds..if we see a change in his sense of urgency and it looks different the tactic that Philbin went to cannot be questioned..
     
  2. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    You could argue that Philbin could've met with Tannehill in private and put the pressure of losing his starting QB job on him that way, but obviously that would result in a whole lot less pressure than if the entire country knows about it. I think we're about at the point where the latter is a more desirable approach, because we need to know if we've pulled out all the stops with this guy before we move on.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Im not playing that game, and I agree that others shouldn't, he seems to have a strong opinion, is bringing good info to the table, and loves his team at the same time, if anyone has a problem with that they should look at themselves, and VT and Todd are my boys, but them to.
     
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  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Sure, there's no evidence if you ignore what you see on Sunday. Can you honestly say, in all seriousness, that you're satisfied with the play of the interior linemen and receivers?

     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yes, that is a problem, but not for the reason you think it is. Most everyone around the league understands it takes time for quarterbacks to develop, especially when they've previously lacked the tutelage [see Zac Taylor], entered the league with less experience than normal, and are starting over in a new system. If that's not enough, the new system also represents his "first" new NFL system even though every other QB gets his first new system as a rookie, not in year 3.

    In case you haven't noticed, the Jets are in Miami's division. Our players are well aware of what Rex Ryan says and how he's firmly and openly supported his QBs during woeful times like he did throughout Geno Smith's rookie year and like he did for Sanchez right up until the organization finally gave up on him 62 games later. He publicly supports his players through and through until it's time to not support them anymore. You stop supporting them when you pull the plug, not before it. Tannehill has had just 35 games. Our players aren't idiots. They understand it takes time for QBs to develop contrary to your asinine belief. They WELL understand it can take time to get things together in a new system; heck, they're dealing with their own issues themselves [see "leading the NFL in drops"]. They WELL understand that the terminated Shermanator ran a flat, limiting, predictable, outdated offense; they spoke about it this year after Lazor arrived. If guys like Mike Wallace are aware that Sherman poorly utilized players [like was the case with himself] and was fired for the aforementioned reasons, then it doesn't take a Princeton grad to conclude that the offense's young, developing QB likely wasn't placed in the best position to succeed either, nor immune to Sherman's detrimental presence. They also know Tannehill didn't show anything his first two years to suggest he should be on such a short, unsupportive leash to start year 3, especially not when it's a new system. Our players know he's earned greater respect and support than guys like Blaine Gabbert who completed a pedestrian 50% of his passes as a rookie, 58% in year 2, and 49% to start year 3, all while breaking 200 yards just 7 times in 27 starts and throwing a total of 22 TDs. Tannehill threw more TDs and nearly as many yards last year alone, led 4 fourth quarter comebacks [tied for the league lead], and did so while being sacked a league-leading 58 times, yet you think it's acceptable and appropriate to treat him like Gabbert? GTHO here.

    So with all that said, when the guy responsible for dismantling the leadership council and sending great players like Dansby packing offers a message that suggests he "may" think Tannehill is a bust, it most likely won't incite the players to question Tannehill's ability and his potential as the QB in this system; it'll make them question Philbin's ability as their head coach. You see, you're assuming that the team would be spontaneously persuaded to believe Tannehill is a bust just because of what Philbin says. The reality, however, is Philbin's message doesn't signal to them that Tannehill is a bust; it signals to them that their head coach is an idiot who is much more likely to be the bust.
     
  6. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    I think there's a difference between being unsatisfied with the play of those parts of the team, and thinking that if you were satisfied with them, you'd also be satisfied with how Ryan Tannehill is playing. I don't see that strong a link between how those parts of the team are playing and Ryan Tannehill's individual performance. I think you could improve those parts of the team to the point that they were functioning as well as they could, and Tannehill would still be having his problems to an unacceptable degree.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yup, the whole country is watchin how Tannehill responds because the whole country knows he's far enough in the process to not be playing this way..

    Mark shlereth and bruschii put him directly on notice looking directly at the camera and calling him out..

    Look he finally stood up for himself this week...cool...have we ever seen him look raged on the football field?, no, let's see if there is somethin different in his eyes.

    Steve spurrier quote on why he called his players out in public after their opening loss in humiliating fashion, sometimes when your not playing up to their potential ya gotta get on Em a lil bit, push em a little bit, let them know that what they did isn't up to our standards"

    Now I wouldn't of minded Philbin going that route, but the NFL usually doesn't do it that way.
     
  8. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Um, o-line, QB and receiver performance is linked. That's been established for years. Like I said, no one is shying away from saying that Ryan needs to step it up.

    So, once again, I ask you - can you honestly say that you're satisfied with the play of the interior linemen and receivers?

     
  9. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    I'm not, but again, I don't think their performance is the difference between how Ryan Tannehill is playing individually and what would be desirable or even acceptable from him. Obviously just because there is an interaction between the play of various players doesn't mean there isn't also an individual contribution of single players, including Tannehill. Dan Marino never had much of a running game, but that never stopped him from throwing the ball all over the field with great success, primarily as a result of his individual ability.
     
  10. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    1). Never once said it was the difference.

    2). Marino never had a running game, but he had great receivers and offensive lines (not to downplay his accolades)

     
  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Yep...every QB should be compared to arguably the best ever...that's feasibly reasonable.

    He's had problems individually as well as many others...as a whole, we get what we've seen the past week. If any of those weaknesses improve, it's a different result. 3, maybe 4, dropped TDs makes a massive difference, as well as bad play by any other position.

    IMO there've been other individual performances far worse than RT's so far this year...long list of them. He definitely needs to improve some things though.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Todd, that's optimistic and I hope it's just an experience thing, but are you saying your happy with what your seeing in isolation, happy with his leadership, content on him being a strict pocket qb, do you not think something had to happen to push him past this hump he seemingly can't get over?
     
  13. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    My point exactly.

     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    In isolation, he hasn't been that bad. He's had a few sacks he could've avoided, and some bad throws, but overall, he hasn't been poor. There's some great analysis floating around out there that shows his progressions were covered many times when things went south. That to me is the #1 area he needs to improve on...resetting, which includes moving the pocket or leaving it.

    As far as leadership goes, we don't know what he does/doesn't say to the other players...just because he isn't throwing tantrums doesn't mean he's not leading. The players have resoundingly stated they're behind him and he's their guy...that would speak against a non-leadership argument.

    That said, I'm sure we'd all like to see him play with some fire.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not happy with the drops, but that could be a coaching thing not getting these guys to focus hard enough, hartline is a lil bit@@ at this point, nothing is in rhythm and I don't see the qb elevating the units play by demonstrative leadership..accountability can take place in the huddle as well, is Tannehill displaying that energy, doesn't look like it to me..

    The unit is lacking confidence as a whole, which could stem from their qb not having any.
     
  16. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    There are so many things that contribute to an effective passing game. Its not just the QB.

    Heres a players stats through 3 game.

    3TD 0INT
    67 comp 114 atts
    632 yards


    Ryan Tannehills
    70 comp 124 atts
    624 yards
    4 TDs 2 Ints


    The first player is Tom Brady. If your saying his stats suck because hes old..then..your just being ignorant. Hes had same issues as Ryan..missing open recievers..innaccuracy..etc.

    Now..what are the reasons why Tom Brady is struggling?
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clayton being the best he had, he was a great player, but after that, including tight ends, I wouldn't say he played with so many great players like your quote infers..duper was good, fryar was good for a bit, then where do you want to go, nat moore ?... Good player..

    What great tight end did he have besides a Keith Jackson past his prime.?
     
  18. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    I'm ready to cut bait on Tannehill AND Philbin. Where does that place me in the Dolphins fan base?
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm seeing plays left out on the field in isolation, I'm seeing a qb fixated waaaay to much on executing his first read, I'm seeing him throw to receivers that are covered on short routes, I'm seeing poor screen execution on his part, I'm seeing his delivery get lower than it should, I'm seeing an inability to understand that running with a purpose is a real weapon in this league and can play a major role in getting first downs, and stretching a defense..and I'm not seeing enough on field confidence.

    My hope comes from if he's put under pressure and put in the spotlight like he has now, he might get pissed off and that will help him with two categories while we wait on the progression stuff, running with purpose and on field confidence..those two things alone drastically improving needs to happen..
     
  20. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Even the most ardent Tannehill supporter..will tell you Ryan needs to drastically improve. Where the difference is..we think he can improve..and believe you cant really judge him with a yay or nay vote until about 8 games into the season.

    But even still..say you bench Tannehill now...three games in. You start Matt Moore. Ok fine..theres nothing to suggest Matt Moore will give us a better team at the end of the day. So..odds are we are still an 8-8 team..with Matt Moore. Who is your starting QB next season? Are you prepared to resign Matt Moore for more money to start next season? Are you prepared to draft a QB in the first round..start him
    .and wait to find out if that QB is the franchise QB?


    Do you even know which QBs will be available in the draft?

    The fact is..every Dolphin fan should be praying Ryan does improve and show he is a viable starter..because its with Ryan as that QB that the fins get back to the playoffs quickest.

    Have you looked at UFA Qbs for next season?

    Blaine Gabbert
    Mark Sanchez
    Carson Palmer
    Christian Ponder

    Ready to believe one of those are getting you there?

    Its easy to say your ready to move on from Ryan Tannehill..in a vacum. But now replace him. Options all the sudden dont look so amazing.
     
    77FinFan likes this.
  21. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Do you see Cam Newton running with a purpose this season?
     
  22. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    If it isn't the difference between what we're seeing from Tannehill individually and what would be desirable or even acceptable from him, then it isn't relevant to a discussion about his individual play.
     
  23. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    I want Dan Marino back...
     
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  24. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    DU
    ...

    In your opinion what factors go into good QB play?
     
  25. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ok...well..how bout an option that doesnt include tripping on acid
     
  26. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't mean I have to like Tannehill or any other of your horrible options.

    We need a new GM, HC, and starting QB and the Dolphins are ready to compete.
     
  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Heres the bottom line IMO.

    If you make the wrong call this season on Tannehill and allow him to continue to play with the hopes he develops...

    The worst result is we get a new regime change...and we are stuck having to once again be patient while a young QB develops.

    If you bench Ryan without letting him try to fix things..there is still the unknown as to what you really have...you loose him completely...and are forced to invest in a 1st round draft pick..with no certainty that qb will develop.

    What is the downside to continuing to let him play through 8 games? Theres way more upside...
     
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  28. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ok..lol..and that should make us competitive by what..2018?
     
  29. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Do you REALLY see us competitive before then?
     
  30. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Its not a matter of liking or not liking. Its a matter if what is in the best interest of your franchise both now and in the future.

    I have not read one analysis saying Ryan Tannehill cannot be a good QB in this league..outside of fans analysis in here.

    Most who actually study QBs see good and bad..and say its stil to early.

    Whats best for the franchise is letting him continue to play.
     
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  31. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I do..if Ryan Tannehill is playing as well by mid season as I expect him to...if Im wrong..oh well..but what if your wrong..and he CAN get to that point...but you benched him.

    If it was just RT holding the offense back..then fine. But its not. His interior line has sucked. Our WR core has sucked...and they have...just leave it at that. The easiest thing to do is bench RT. The hardest thing to do..is what happens next.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    It's funny that the entire franchise pounded its fist to invest a 1st rounder in a QB, and with that investment comes certain understandings and responsibilities, one of which is allowing a young QB enough time to show his organization what he is or isn't worth [like you just mentioned]. However, now that we finally did spend that 1st rounder on one, some of the fans want to go ahead and prematurely move on, creating yet another QB dilemma for the next 3 to 15 years in the process, a dilemma that might not necessarily need to exist if sufficient patience is employed with Tannehill. People act like benching Tannehill is a solution to great QB play, as if the act itself miraculously sprouts up a legitimate answer at QB in his place.
     
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  33. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Thats what I dont get. Our franchise is sooooo much better if RT does pan out. Yet..we have threads and threads on how awful he is...how can you root for the guy to fail? We get it..he has issues. Would you feel better being wrong about RT and he being a good QB..or right so you can say I told you so.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I guess not. I am in Oregon and the game being shown on the local network is Panthers @ Ravens.
     
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  35. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    I think this team can be competitive this year. I think that Joe Philbin may have unintentionally stumbled upon something that can help this team: manufacturing emotion. I think it might be a great thing if the team hates Joe Philbin and takes that into football games, because it's more than they're taking into games now.
     
  36. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Well then, I cant wait for his next huge blunder before our next game.

    Fun times!
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Really? No kidding? Well that is a valuable little piece of info right there.
     
  38. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 New Member

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    As much as it PAINS me to agree with you...this is all true. How many good QBs are there in the NFL? How many half decent ones are there? Things RT has going for him is he is athletic, very smart, and very committed. You'd have to be crazy to cut the cord! What's the alternative? There are just not a lot of good QBs out there!

    It's no coincidence that our last playoff season was on the arm of Chad Pennington. And we came close with RT. I've seen enough good from him.

    Let's not forget, he is barely a few months learning a whole new system, with his line blocking a whole new scheme. I think things will click for RT eventually. Certainly no better alternative exists atm.
     
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  39. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Just because there are threads and posts about how bad Tannehill is, doesn't mean they/we root for him to fail. How do you come to that conclusions?
     
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  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sucks. I figured it would be on. Oh well. I'm getting tired of going to the bar and leaving depressed, drunk and bloated. Well, the last two are ok.
     

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