Phillies land Cliff Lee

Well, he aint Roy Halladay. But now, the Marlins have to play for the WC.

 

He becomes your number 1 pitcher, he is better than Hamels.

 

Damn. Sucks for me as a Braves fan, but a nice pickup for Philly. Guess they had to make a move with Halladay possibly going to Boston.

 

True as a Met fan, but I also like that they keep giving away young talent.

But you can't blame them with the team that is built to win now.

 

All reports I've read state that the Phillies gave up next to nothing for Lee, compared to the players they would have had to give up for Halladay. I think it was a great move by Philly.

 

Who did they give up for Lee?

And everytime I think about him I'm reminded of the Sizemore/Lee for Bartolo Colon trade. You gotta love Omar Minaya

 

Carlos Carrasco (SP), Jason Knapp (SP), Jason Donald (INF) and Lou Marson (C). None of those guys are projected to be stars unlike the guys rumored in any Halladay deal.

 

What a great move by the Phillies. They land a #1 quality pitcher and don't give up any of their top 3 prospects. Fantastic work.

 

WTF was Cleveland thinking? You have to get at least JA Happ in that deal. Horrible. Is Lee a FA after this season or something? I'd rather take the draft picks TBH.

 

exactly my thinking. cleveland got raped. and Lee is under contract next year for only 8 million.

good job cleveland.

 

Or Brown or Taylor. I agree. Bad job by Cleveland which is surprising because they do have a pretty good front office.

 

They are all highly thought of, but I agree they are not what they would have given up for RH.

I think its a great move, but I also like seeing them get rid of future players.

 

Donald isn't viewed as a SS long term. He has a very good glove so most likely he'll be a 2nd base as he doesn't have hit for enough power to be a 3rd baseman.

Marson has fallen a bit as well but the thing that's puzzling is Cleveland already has Carlos Santana who's a better catcher and hitter than Marson and by a lot. It makes no sense why they got Marson too. He's going to be a back up for them.

 

I usually hit up Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, and ESPN.com- specifcially Keith Law, who I feel does an outstanding job with minor league systems and ranking prospects. Law also does a lot of ESPN radio hits that you can listen too as well as his own podcast with Jason Churchill from BP (you can find the link at his personal webpage which I don't have handly but I think it's 'meadowparty' or something. Maybe try googling for it).

I also like to use mlbtraderumors.com for the latest news/trade rumors and analysis.

I generally like to avoid reading what local beat writers for the teams have to say about prospects because they're usually just pumping them up and most of the time never see them live, just relying what they have heard about them.

 

Ben Fransisco was also in the deal. He isn't a bad player. He'll be good off the bench for them.

 

Mark Shapiro is a pretty bright guy; he must see something in these guys that others don't.

 

It will be interesting to see if Lee can survive that stadium being a flyball pitcher.

Lee has fly-ball tendencies (54.5 pct of balls in play)

 

I like this for both teams.philly is built to win now but these were 3 of their top 4 prospects according to BA at the start of the season. For all the same reasons I did not want the mets to trade for halladay is why I dislike I philly.

 

I am so happy with my Phillies!!!

We got last year's AL Cy Young winner and didn't have to get rid of Drabek, Happ or some other top prospects (Taylor and Brown). I liked Marson as the Phillies will need a Catcher to replace Ruiz soon, but we have D'Arnaud who is a good Catcher. Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ, and either Moyer/Pedro or ??? should be a pretty nice rotation to go along with the offense. Had we gone after Halladay we would have had to give up a whole lot more. Look for Amaro to make another deal before Friday. Ben Francisco is also a decent righty bat, and a good outfielder...I am surprised he was thrown in the deal.

 

The Phillies did not give the Indians 3 of their top 4 prospects. They gave them decen prospects, but nothing to major. This was a steal by Philly.

 

He meant that before the season started Carrasco, Donald and Marson were ranked in the top 4 Philly prospects by Baseball America. Obviously guys like Drebeck, Happ, Brown, Taylor and Knapp jumped ahead of them because those guys played very well and the trio of Carrasco, Donald and Marson stumbled a bit.

 

Yup...and per RotoWorld...and others...they didnt give up garbage - I dont think you can claim its a steal for Philly we are talking about an 18, 22, 23 and 24 year olds - time will tell. I trust Indian FO over our random opinions on this one:

The Indians, meanwhile, receive an impressive bounty in parting with their ace. The highlight of the package is pitching prospect Jason Knapp. The 18-year-old! right-hander has spent the season pitching for the Class-A Lakewood B lueClaws, where his high-90s fastball and outstanding secondary stuff have enabled him to rack up 111 strikeouts in 85 1/3 innings of work. The Indians also receive 22-year-old right-hander Carlos Carrasco and 24-year-old middle-infielder Jason Donald, who have both struggled to varying degrees this year but could be core players for the Tribe by next season. Rounding out the trade is Lou Marson, a 23-year-old catching prospect who boasts outstanding on-base skills. All four players were widely considered to rank among Philadelphia's top 10 prospects.

The Phillies had to part with sizable haul in order to acquire Lee.

 

No those prospects aren't garbage by any means. I don't think anyone is claiming they are. But the Phillies got a top pitcher in Lee (for the rest of this year and all of next at only 9 million) without giving up any of their top 3 prospects. That's a very very good deal.

My only point is that if you're Cleveland you're getting back 4 guys with some question marks who aren't even Philly's best. Carrasco has serious make up issues and his secondary pitches are average at best right now. Knapp is still young and he's good but he's in A ball, meaning a lot can happen and although he's the best prospect in the deal he comes with the most risk since he's so far away, also the Phillies had to shut him down already with a sore/tired arm. Donald hasn't hit at all in Triple A this year which may or may not have to do with his injured knee but the kid does have a very good glove. And getting Marson makes no sense since they already have a better catching prospect in the minor leagues in Carlos Santana who's better with the glove and bat than Marson is now, meaning Marson is their future back up.

I'm just stunned that Philly pulled this off. It was a great move by them.

 

Well depth at a given position is not a bad thing if its leverage to make another move...

Plus, while on hype and paper these may not have been the Top 3 current prospects, the option was for CLE to turn it down. I stand by CLE FO feeling these 4 do more for them going forward than with Cliff Lee/Ben Francisco. And like making trades in Fantasy to some degree, accepting this package as opposed to holding out for more, or turning it down very well could make the most sense in the short and long term for CLE franchise.

Giving up Lee from CLE perspective was not a hard decision....and only CLE FO knows if getting a Drabeck or Happ or a different body was a realistic option or even a want!

 

Indians acquired four of the Phillies' Top 10 prospects, according to Baseball America's preseason rankings (No. 2 Carlos Carrasco, No. 3 Lou Marson, No. 4 Jason Donald and No. 10 Jason Knapp).

Indians restock with a bevy of talented young players, at least three of whom could be ready to make an impact at the major league level as early as next season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ted_keith/07/29/lee.phillies/index.html?eref=sihpT1


I think its an even trade, yes we don't know what the youngsters will be for the Indians. But like I said in an earlier post, we don't know how Lee, a flyball pitcher, will do in that launch pad called home either.

 

Agreed but Lee is also pitching in a weaker league and will pitch games in big time pitcher's parks like Citi Field and in Florida. It will probably all even out.

 

Yeah, Phillies fans are totally bummed out with Lee and all we had to give up for him.

Lee was throwing a no hitter through 6 innings last night and looks like the best pitcher the Phillies have had in the last twenty years. Marson, our AAA Catcher, is about the only guy I hated to lose as we could use him backing up Carlos Ruiz, but we have another Catcher named D'Arnaud who should be just as good as Marson. Carrasco was getting lit up in the bigs, and the other guys (Knapp and Donald) are a few years away from making the Indian's roster. What made this deal a steal was getting Ben Francisco....he can play all three outfield positions and has more pop in his bat then Victorino, who is out with a bruised knee.