Many Dolphans have different opinions on what a "Franchise QB" is. All agree that we want and need one, and have been on this quest since Marino left.
I thought that the best place to look for answers for what we want is the playoffs where a QB gets to show his value vs the best the NFL has to offer. Here's a list of all QBs in the playoffs for the past three years, what they've won, and a bit of what they've done.
In 08, Delhomme, T Jackson, Penny, Ryan, Collins, Eli, and Peyton were all one and done.
In 09, McNabb, Brady, Palmer, Rivers, and Rodgers did the same.
In 10, Cassel, Ryan, Brady, Vick, Peyton, and Brees did not win a playoff game.
In 08, Rivers was 1-1, Flacco was 2-1, McNabb 2-1, Warner 3-1. and Big Ben 3-0.
In 09, Farve was 1-1, Romo was 1-1, Flacco was 1-1, Warner was 1-1, Peyton was 2-1, Sanchez was 2-1, and Brees was 3-0.
In 10, Cutler was 1-1, Flacco was 1-1, Hasselbeck was 1-1,Samchez was 2-1, Big Ben was 2-1, and Rodgers was 4-0.
Looks to me like the Franchise Vets are Peyton, Brees, and Brady, although Brady was 0-2 with a very modest 225 yard averag, 4 TDs and 2 picks.
On to the "Young Guns" at 30 or under, for an overall look.
Eli was 0-1 with a rating of 40.7, Cassell was 0-1 wit 70 yds, o TDs, and 3 Ints, Ryan was 0-2, 193 yd avg, 3 TDs, and 4 Ints, Cutler was 1-1, 177 yd avg (although hurt), 2 TDs, 1 Int, Rivers was 1-2, 270 yd avg, 4 TDs, and 4 Ints.
Flacco was 4-3, (great game vs KC-329 yds and 2 TDs) otherwise 127 yd avg, 2 TDs, and 7 Ints. Sanchez was 4-2, 193 yd avg, 9 TDs, and 3 Ints, Big Ben was 5-1, 219 yd avg, 7 TDs, and 5 Ints, and Rodgers was 4-1, 307 yd avg, 13 TDs. and 3 Ints.
Looks to me like Rodgers, Big Ben and Sanchez are the only three who did well. Even at that, all these young guns aside from Rodgers and Rivers, are only throwing for around 200 yards in this pass happy league when it comes to playoff time.
IYO, who are the "Franchise QBs" in the playoffs the past three seasons? Should anyone else be included? Which type of QB are we looking for?
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Disnardo likes this.
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Well, for myself I think a "franchise guy" is simply one who can consistently play at a high level and produce positive results and does more then make the plays they should make and make some plays they never should have tried to make to a fans' eyes.
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I think they have to win playoff games, play well, and give their team a chance at the promised land. They have to do more than be good in the regular season. JMOAquafin likes this.
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Eh, thing is, a "franchise guy" should get you to the playoffs but they cannot win the game for you, for example Carson Palmer is widely considered a "franchise guy" until the injuries, yet he has had 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances and no playoff wins.
It takes a whole team to pull out wins in the playoffs, for example is Matt Hasselback a "franchise guy"? Seachickens won a playoff game last yr.
Which is why a "franchise Qb" is consistently good and it allows the team to strengthen other areas, like Manning has allowed the Colts to have a Oline and Front 7 that has been a work in progress for yrs and they have always been good, that is what a Franchise does for the Franchise imo. -
Padre is right. Franchise QB isn't enough to win in the playoffs, it's a team effort. Hell, look at Sanchez, nothing close to a franchise QB (yet), but his team puts him in a position to win. same can't be said for Manning.
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To win a Superbowl without a franchise quarterback requires an all-world defense and a great head coach.
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Well, sort of, that is were things get murky as sometimes a guy is not considered a "Franchise" Qb until they win a SB, once they win it THEN they become "franchise Qb;s"
That is why I prefer a benchmark approach to the Qb position, for example they must produce at least 20 Td's, at least. -
Good points Padre, and I should have added over a period of time. I believe that a Franchise guy should be able to carry and/or rally a team for playoff wins but, others think differently.
Which ones, of the above QBs, would you consider to be Franchise QBs? -
Then you look at a guy like Rivers. He has great surrounding talent, puts up great numbers, but has not really had the team results you would think he would.
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How about this as yard stick:
-started the majority of their teams' games over the last 4 yrs
-20 or more TD on average each yr 20 Td+/60% completions/1.5 to 1 or higher Td to in ratio
-team had more winning records then losing records over that period of time
If you think about Rivers, the "old" Chargers team that made the AFC title game has only degraded over time, Merriman, LT, etc have all left, the Chargers remain a decent team through it all. -
I would keep the TD-INT at 1.5, and that works for the regular season. For me, playing well in the playoffs has to be added. There is mostly no weak team to pad stats on, and you have to perform under pressure. Look at some of the playoff stats compared to the regular season. They are like night and day. I can't label those QBs as Franchise.
I still have Rivers and SD in mind from last year. #1 on O, #1 on D, bad STs, and only having to beat out an average KC for the playoffs. -
Granted the playoffs are the ultimate yardstick, however where the Dolphins are at currently, we first have to make the dance.
Which to me is why I think running the ball for us is the way to go, but if that works Henne should show more signs that he is the guy.
For fun SB, check out Jay Fiedlers' 2001 season when the running game was going really well, the problem is he was so physically limited, and over 30 before he had success.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FiedJa00.htm -
To me it really comes down to making "enough" plays. "Enough" though is hard to define. I like my franchise QB to be approaching a 2 to 1 TD/INT ratio most years. But there are other plays. If the line screws up on a 3rd and 5 and my QB beats the rusher on his own and throws a short pass for the first, that's a play too. I don't put much stock in playoff performance though. IMO those are more reflective of how good the team is, .ie is it good enough to go against better competition and of course just luck. Luck is a big factor in how the numbers look when the sample size is so small. You can't say a QB is or isn't a franchise guy b/c he had poor numbers in the only two playoff games he played in.
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If a QB is VG in the regular season, and below average or worse vs playoff competition, it tell me something. IMO that something is regardless of the sample size on being a Franchise guy at this point in his career.
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The teams that make it to the conference championship games or further are well balanced generally. A franchise qb can get you to the playoffs but not always further. Look at Matt Ryans playoff career so far, or Peyton Mannings first few seasons in the postseason. He needed a team effort before they could advance.
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Then you see a Guy like Flacco going 4-3 and doing nothing. Do QBs matter less in the playoffs than in the regular season?
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I would also say Int %(percentage of times intercepted when attempting to pass) less than or close to 3 would be a good stat to look for too.
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I disagree. The level of talent in individual players doesn't vary that much from team to team. The playoff teams are better teams not vastly more talented teams. The concept of "clutch" has been disproven for professional athletes so if a QB is talented enough to perform well in the regular season there is no reason to believe that given sufficient opportunities, his stats would be similar in either category. The difference is simply how good the whole team is.
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This thread title made me think someone was quoted as saying we were looking for a franchise QB. Could it possibly be changed to something like "What is a franchise QB?" Pleasethankyou.
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Hello guys I would like to chime in on this topic . first thing that needs to happen is we need a passing game and we need to change to a 4 wr sets and throw deep. In my opinion our running game has been average at best since the Saban administration so we have not really had a real offense that do both real well in a long time .
we have been using the running game way to much and opposing defense always know that we are going to run the ball so why cant we do both and do it well ? -
To be fair that team always has injuries or a glaring weakness. Last year their OL was awful. The year before their Defense was hurt and lacked a substantial rush. Every year they have to deal with Norv Turner who is just not a very good postseason coach.
As far as true franchise guys I have 8 total...(in no order)
Peyton
Rodgers
Brady
Rivers
Brees
Eli
Ben Rothlisberger
Bradford (I saw enough that yes I am REALLY putting him on this pedestal) -
Yeah, this went way off topic.
And that said, a franchise QB is a QB you build a franchise around. It's really that simple. You don't have to be an elite QB to be a franchise QB. Matt Hasselbeck was not elite, but he was Seattle's franchise QB. Matt Schaub is not elite, but he's Houston's franchise QB. Eli Manning is another example.
An elite QB is always a franchise QB, but a franchise QB is not always an elite QB. Using talent level to apply the "franchise QB" moniker is a mistake, IMO. -
I reject labels.
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I think you're jumping the gun on Bradford, and I don't include Eli (SB win and all). Can't disagree with the others.
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When I go on a search, I always found that knowing what I was searching for to be a good thing. How that is "way off topic" is beyond me, but who really cares?
I guess what you're trying to say is that for some teams their franchise guy is like in the Vally Of The Blind, with the man with one eye being king. That makes no sense to me.