Player Profiling Tip of Day:

"ckparrothead wrote:

This thread is threatening Zach Thomas to Safety status. I love it. :)

Yes but how fast did he talk?

"ToddsPhins wrote:

There's a guy by the name of Muhammed Ali. You might have heard of him. In case you haven't, here he is. Some people might recall him as being the greatest boxer of all time..... and coincedentally, one of the quickest, smoothest talkers in sports history. Boxing is possibly the epitome of quick reaction time if I recall correctly. YouTube- Mike tyson Interview catskill

It's also quite ironic that the 2nd greatest boxer of all time is also an incredibly fast speaker. Coincedence?

YouTube- Mike tyson Interview catskill

I think you could make a pretty good argument that Mike Tyson wasn't in the top 10 of greatest boxers of all time when you actually look at names such as Jack Dempsey, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Benny Leonard and Jack Johnson. Johnson himself was a notorious lover of poetry and spoke with a slow, eloquent grace which, quite apart from his boxing skills, irritated the white man even further.

My guess is that some people who can process information quickly when speaking also process information quickly when doing physical activity. However, my feeling is that there are just as many examples that prove the rule as there are exceptions. So, with all do respect to Todd, I don't see this tip having much value as an evaluation tool.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

There's a guy by the name of Muhammed Ali. You might have heard of him. In case you haven't, here he is. Some people might recall him as being the greatest boxer of all time..... and coincedentally, one of the quickest, smoothest talkers in sports history. Boxing is possibly the epitome of quick reaction time if I recall correctly.

It's also quite ironic that the 2nd greatest boxer of all time is also an incredibly fast speaker. Coincedence?

Okay....want to talk boxers?

fine with me.

The guy that was Champ before Ali was Sonny Liston. Spoke slowly.

Let's stick with Heavyweights.

Joe Louis. Spoke VERY slowly. Floyd Patterson. Larry Holmes.

If you sat 100 Boxing writers in a room and asked them to name the greatest boxer of all-time.....about 98 of them would say Sugar Ray Robinson....

yep...you guessed it...Ray Robinson spoke SLOWLY.

Great Slow-talkers in history:

George Washington
Winston Churchill

On the flip side...

Adolph Hitler and Osama Bin laden have a very quick and fast cadence.

You know...the OP is on to something....

I see your angle TP, i would at least say its a red flag during the evaluation process.

Somethin that i find myself taking a higher prescedent in terms of evaluation of a player is, the body.

I think the insight on how a professional athlete trains his body on his own, is an inditement on their character, and intelligence, good or bad.

I find myself becoming more weary of professional athletes who do not have the thought process that makes them want to train their bodies, down to a science.

Bottom line, i'ts getting to the point in human evolution, that if you dont train your body down to a science, and your getting paid copious amounts of money to do so, and you dont put that in your repatoire?, when accepting that contract?, I'am sorry, i don't trust you completely.

Even offensive lineman and Dtackles.

TP, you have mentioned that you want to sign vince wilfork, this is a man that does not follow my standards for an NFL player anymore..I understand that i may lose out on some good football players.

If i was a gm, i could see myself really emphasizing this to an unprescedented level, and iam thinking our own code is on the same page..Jake Long is the ultimate example relative to his position.

If you dont train your body, down to a science, no matter what position you are playing, you are not on my football team....The new breed of scout.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

can you please give me a reference for this? It doesn't matter where you grow up. Where you grow up doesn't determine how fast your brain processes info.... unless you're from a long line of inbred lineage.... or your area's genetics happen to be as such.

I can tell you that my speed of speech has changed depending upon where I've lived. Heck, even on extended vacations I tend to pick up the local cadence. I'd like to think that my processing speed is unchanged.

No matter where I've lived, I'm generally considered a fast talker. When I moved to Nevada however, my rate decreased. I don't know if it's b/c it's a smaller town or the pace of life is slower or what, but my rate of speech is definitely slower. Compared to people in Reno I still tend to speak quickly, but when I call people in New York I notice that they are speaking faster than I am. That didn't used to be the case.

Also I speak faster in English than I do in Spanish. Technically, Spanish is my first language and I am fluent in both languages. But I speak English more frequently.

"Section126 wrote:

and here ya go...

he talks a mile a minute. and he is retarded.

Antonio Cromartie
YouTube- Antonio Cromartie at Hazel-E Pink Carpet Event

He talks a mile a minute, which AGAIN equates to the ability to process info quickly, and has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. This is one of the reasons a "retard" as you call him can succeed in the NFL..... b/c he has the ability to process quickly despite a lower IQ.... hence further proving my point. :up:

"djphinfan wrote:

I see your angle TP, i would at least say its a red flag during the evaluation process.

Please.

"F.O wrote:

Dolphin Rookies who talk fast

Vontae
Sean Smith
Brian Hartline

Dolphin Rookies who talk slow

Pat White
Patrick Turner
John Nalbone

Thank you.

Notice the 3 rookies who are starting in the NFL.... and notice the 3 who are not.

"Section126 wrote:

Dude...Jim Brown talks slow. Johnny Unitas talked slow. Barry Sanders talks slow.

Sanders might talk slow now, but he didn't at Ok St. He was smooth and deliberate with quicker than normal pace. You could see by how he talked that he proccesses quickly.

"Boomer wrote:

Please.

lets put it this way, What Todd is saying would not deter me from selecting the player, it would make me look deeper for the players character, cause if he has that, then i don't give a rats ass how slow he speaks.

Red flag was a bad choice of word on my part.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

Thank you for proving my point. He talks a mile a minute, which AGAIN equates to the ability to process info quickly, and has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. This is one of the reasons a "retard" as you call him can succeed in the NFL..... b/c he has the ability to process quickly despite a lower IQ.... hence further proving my point. :up:

I read your OP.

You said that quick speech translated to mental ability.

I showed you with one glowing example...somebody that speaks very fast but is confirmed to be mentally retarded.

Which proves that there is no correlation to his mental processing and his speech.

The guy is retarded for christs sake. He can;t read or write...he has a IQ of 60...but you are trying to convince us that because he speaks fast..he has superior mental ability which helps him on the field.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

can you please give me a reference for this? It doesn't matter where you grow up. Where you grow up doesn't determine how fast your brain processes info.... unless you're from a long line of inbred lineage.... or your area's genetics happen to be as such.

People from Texas DEFINATELY speak with a slow drawn out vocabulary.
Californians tend to (Ever hear of Jeff Spicholi?)

"jim1 wrote:

George Foreman did pretty well, too, and he speaks with all the speed of sap running down a maple tree. Deoin Sanders spoke fast, Earl Campbell slow. Not so sure about this whole premise. Dan Marino spoke slowly and isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but his reaction/decision making time was incredible. I don't see the pattern that you're referring to.

there are obviously other intangibles that go into a players make up. They don't all have to be fast talkers to be successful in the NFL. Other factors contribute. Rice was a great WR even though he ran a slow 40. Does that mean 40 time means nothing? Campbell was a power back that ran over people. George Foreman was not a finesse fighter. He pounded you. Reaction times arent as important to their success as they are to Ali or Deion. It has to apply to the position at hand. Obviously WRs (especially possession), TEs, OLine, and DLine arent as critical as others.

Deion speaks fast... and on the football field he processed fast, which allowed him to be one of the best cover CBs in NFL history. He blanketed WRs b/c his brain could tell his body what to do lightening quick. It wasn't just speed. He could adjust.... readjust... and readjust again in the blink of an eye. But how fast he processes means nothing if he isn't processing correctly.

You guys are taking this too far. It is merely an extra tool to help understand who processes info quicker than others. That's it.

"Boomer wrote:

So then you'd agree that his Presidential air, based on your hypothesis, means that he's likely to become Kenny Easley redux?

if football were only based on this, then sure. But it's not as you know, so that's a completely silly and insulting question, Boomer. We both know that there's a huge list of criteria that contribute to a great player. As we see with Ginn, speed alone doesn't cut it. I NOT ONCE said that this is the tell all for a great player. NOT ONCE.

So wait then; I don't understand your hypothesis: fast speakers equate to what exactly?

"ToddsPhins wrote:

Sanders might talk slow now, but he didn't at Ok St. He was smooth and deliberate with quicker than normal pace. You could see by how he talked that he proccesses quickly.

So, does that mean he was a better back at Oklahoma State than in the Pro's?
Everytime I have seen him interviewed, he is very deliberate and careful about speaking.
He is far from being a fast talker, neither are Joe Montana or and especially Roger Staubach.

"azfinfanmang wrote:

Just as importantly, just cause somebody is a fast talker doesn't mean they have ability or any Football savy what-so-ever :up:

No kidding. Neither does 40 time.... or cone drills... or QB drills... or any ONE INSOLATED drill from the NFL combine for that matter. Does that mean the combine is a waste of time?!!

I'll remember all of this next time you or anyone else mentions a prospects 40 time.... or his vertical.... or his hand placement.... or if he falls forward upon contact.... or how well he shifts through trash..... or his instincts..... balance etc.

This entire NFL draft forum is a complete waste of time then if a player's individual intangibles have nothing to do with football. Why are we even bothering with it? :dunno:

"Boomer wrote:

YouTube- 1993 - Bo Jackson

Bo Can't Speak For Diddly......yet he's one of the greatest and most electric, quick twitch American sportsmen of the century.

are you kidding me. Bo had a speech impediment. His mouth had trouble keeping up with what his brain was trying to convey.... hence the impediment.

However he didn't have a leg impediment. They worked perfectly fine with how fast his brain was processing. :wink2:

"Section126 wrote:

Great Slow-talkers in history:

George Washington
Winston Churchill

On the flip side...

Adolph Hitler and Osama Bin laden have a very quick and fast cadence.

You know...the OP is on to something....

AGAIN... it is not related to intelligence.

"djphinfan wrote:

lets put it this way, What Todd is saying would not deter me from selecting the player, it would make me look deeper for the players character, cause if he has that, then i don't give a rats ass how slow he speaks.

Red flag was a bad choice of word on my part.

Thank you. It's not an end all final determination of a players potential. It's just one extra aspect to look at. That's it. If you're unsure about a person's reaction time AND they speak very slowly, then there's a good chance that they might have problems in that regard at the next level. However if you're sitting on the fence about someone's reaction time and that same person speaks very quickly and deliberately, it might be a hint in the positive direction.

It's used like the forty is. The forty isnt a definite yes or no for success. If youre unsure of a player's speed, you pay more attention to his 40 than normal.

I am pretty sure, scratch that, absolutely certain, that a physiological psychologist would disagree with the premise of this thread. You are quite literally talking about different areas of the brain.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

No friggin kidding. Neither does 40 time.... or cone drills... or QB drills... or any ONE INSOLATED drill from the NFL combine for that matter. Does that mean the combine is a waste of time?!!

I'll remember all of this next time you or anyone else mentions a prospects 40 time.... or his vertical.... or his hand placement.... or if he falls forward upon contact.... or how well he shifts through trash..... or his instincts..... balance etc.

This entire NFL draft forum is a complete waste of time then if a player's individual intangibles have nothing to do with football. Why are we even bothering with it? :dunno:

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Fair enough, I would take it one step further;
Take two kids with very similar skills across the board, un less you can REALLY show me un-equivacable evidence to back up your thesis, its gonna be grades,background, work-ethic, trouble record all before considering that by one being a fast talker that he is going to be the more successful player.....sorry, I honestly just don't see it....and the numbers don't back it up either.
As somebody already mentioned, I would be willing to bet there are equall instances that support your thesis as those that disagree with it :yes:

"ToddsPhins wrote:

Thank you. It's not an end all final determination of a players potential. It's just one extra aspect to look at. That's it. If you're unsure about a person's reaction time AND they speak very slowly, then there's a good chance that they might have problems in that regard at the next level. However if you're sitting on the fence about someone's reaction time and that same person speaks very quickly and deliberately, it might be a hint in the positive direction.

It's used like the forty is. The forty isnt a definite yes or no for success. If youre unsure of a player's speed, you pay more attention to his 40 than normal.

I wonder what this guy ran the 40 in:

YouTube- FedEx commercial with John Moschitta

Dude, just let this one go. Nothing good can come of this thread.