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Player Profiling Tip of Day:

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    if football were only based on this, then sure. But it's not as you know, so that's a completely silly and insulting question, Boomer. We both know that there's a huge list of criteria that contribute to a great player. As we see with Ginn, speed alone doesn't cut it. I NOT ONCE said that this is the tell all for a great player. NOT ONCE.
     
  2. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    So wait then; I don't understand your hypothesis: fast speakers equate to what exactly?
     
  3. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    So, does that mean he was a better back at Oklahoma State than in the Pro's?
    Everytime I have seen him interviewed, he is very deliberate and careful about speaking.
    He is far from being a fast talker, neither are Joe Montana or and especially Roger Staubach.
     
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  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    No kidding. Neither does 40 time.... or cone drills... or QB drills... or any ONE INSOLATED drill from the NFL combine for that matter. Does that mean the combine is a waste of time?!!

    I'll remember all of this next time you or anyone else mentions a prospects 40 time.... or his vertical.... or his hand placement.... or if he falls forward upon contact.... or how well he shifts through trash..... or his instincts..... balance etc.

    This entire NFL draft forum is a complete waste of time then if a player's individual intangibles have nothing to do with football. Why are we even bothering with it? :dunno:
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    are you kidding me. Bo had a speech impediment. His mouth had trouble keeping up with what his brain was trying to convey.... hence the impediment.

    However he didn't have a leg impediment. They worked perfectly fine with how fast his brain was processing. :wink2:
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    AGAIN... it is not related to intelligence.
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Thank you. It's not an end all final determination of a players potential. It's just one extra aspect to look at. That's it. If you're unsure about a person's reaction time AND they speak very slowly, then there's a good chance that they might have problems in that regard at the next level. However if you're sitting on the fence about someone's reaction time and that same person speaks very quickly and deliberately, it might be a hint in the positive direction.

    It's used like the forty is. The forty isnt a definite yes or no for success. If youre unsure of a player's speed, you pay more attention to his 40 than normal.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I am pretty sure, scratch that, absolutely certain, that a physiological psychologist would disagree with the premise of this thread. You are quite literally talking about different areas of the brain.
     
  9. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Fair enough, I would take it one step further;
    Take two kids with very similar skills across the board, un less you can REALLY show me un-equivacable evidence to back up your thesis, its gonna be grades,background, work-ethic, trouble record all before considering that by one being a fast talker that he is going to be the more successful player.....sorry, I honestly just don't see it....and the numbers don't back it up either.
    As somebody already mentioned, I would be willing to bet there are equall instances that support your thesis as those that disagree with it :yes:
     
  10. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I wonder what this guy ran the 40 in:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeK5ZjtpO-M"]YouTube- FedEx commercial with John Moschitta[/ame]

    Dude, just let this one go. Nothing good can come of this thread.
     
  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Mental ability and intelligence are 2 completely different things. Reacting quickly is a mental ability that has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with processing. Cromartie, like my example, shows that people who process quickly can be very successful in the NFL. No one can disagree with that. He's proof of it.

    My OP ties into it b/c it is a PROVEN fact that people who naturally talk fast are processing information fast, hence an indication ahead of time that even though Cromartie has an IQ of 60, that he might still be one hell of a football player.
     
  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    How about when they're 20 years old? You will still recognize aspects of their speech where they pick up the pace.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Fast speakers mean that their brains are processing information faster than normal. That's it. Their mouths are moving as fast as their brain is operating.... unless they have a speech impediment or a large tongue or something like that.

    It doesn't mean they're more intelligent. It just means that it revving at a higher RPM.
     
  14. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Yeah... that's what it means. It has nothing to do with the fact that we're advised by agents, coaches, etc to try to slow down our speech during interviews etc so that everyone can understand us.

    Roger was a smooth, deliberate, quicker paced talker.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqLWQ0oHhBE"]YouTube- Roger Staubach loves sex[/ame]
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Really??? And where do you think I'm getting my information from????? :wink2:
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not from someone who is saying what you think they're saying.
     
  17. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Chris Johnson speaking:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oNRrodNvFA"]YouTube- Tennessee Titans Chris Johnson Sets His Goals High[/ame]
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Just as there are equal instances to show that a great 40 time can still mean a bust of a player, but we pay attention to it regardless do we not?
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    CJ has 10 pounds of gold in his mouth. Not the best example. :lol:
     
  21. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    You're actually comparing the bust quotient of 40 times versus the speed of a player's speech? You're digging a hole with a vengeance.
     
  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    "A person's speed of speech shows the rate at which their brain can consciously analyze information." This was in my opening post and is a direct quote from a highly, highly, reputable source.
     
  23. F.O

    F.O New Member

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    :chuckle:
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Operative word that you're ignoring, and the entire reason none of this has any bearing on football whatsoever.
     
  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    No I'm not. I'm saying that 40 time is still used to assess players even though there are examples of 4.3 players busting.

    All you guys are doing is trying to negate what I said. You're all ONLY looking for contradictory examples with a very narrow mind set about it. No one with the exception of DJ has tried to give it any thought or merit to even a little degree.

    Sorry... but not digging a hole for anything. Saying that I'm digging a hole is you saying that you're right... and I'm wrong. What gives you the brass to say that you're right? Not one person has given concrete evidence to disprove a studied fact that fast paced talkers proccess info quickly. Until you do so, then the only holes being dug are by you. :up:
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If how fast a player processes information/reacts has nothing to do with football, then my OP is pointless. It's that easy.
     
  27. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'm not trying to negate anyone. But when you come out with a theory like this- sorry but it's out of left field- the burden of proof is on you. You haven't come close to establishing a pattern to back what you're saying. Speed is a key component of separation and getting open for a WR, and for shadowing for a DB. Every year guys who are fast as hell don't make it in the NFL- but to question 40 times being used because 4.3 guys bust and relate that to your theory is absurd. That's what I mean by digging a hole.
     
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  28. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    The post funk era
    LOL Thread of the year.

    Does anyone other me find it funny that a guy from the South " Where they tend to talk slow" is calling slow taking people in a not so around about way dumberrrrrrrrrr then others.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Talk to me when you get your degree in physiological psychology.
     
  30. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Todd, I actually understand where you're going with your hypothesis, but I think there's just too many variables for it to be considered completely sound.

    To begin with, as several have mentioned, speed of speech can vary from region to location. As a midwesterner, someone from the northeast may sound like they talk fast to me, whereas someone from the south may sound like they're talking significantly slower. Not only will their cadence impact my evaluation - but my cadence will too. In other words, in another area of the country it's possible that everyone talks faster than I do.

    Aside from the geographical challenges there's the psychological as well. I, for example, have ADHD, which means my brain is essentially racing 100 miles a minute. Heck, there's oftentimes that I don't even form complete sentences because my mouth forgets to complete what the brain is saying. I don't think that this inherently gives me more or less athletic ability than anyone else out there. It just means I process things at a different rate of speed.

    Most professional athletes are gifted not with the ability to talk fast, but with tremendous hand-eye coordination. Most of them have practiced their craft so much that it's nearly second nature to them. That's why guys like Antonie Cromartie or Randy Moss are able to do the things they do - heck look at basketball ... Michael Jordan was the best because he practiced his tail off.

    I understand the basic theory, the premise that you can key off a person's speech patter to gauge how quickly he's processing things - but I disagree that it can only be manifested in "quick speech." Lots of folks (not just athletes) get nervous when talking on camera or in front of crowds ... myself included. I know the cadence my speech has a tendency to go faster if I know I'm being listened to.

    At the end of the day I think that the overall speed of the game and hours of practice that this sport requires negates any potential advantage ... and I'm certainly not sold that you can simply make a snap judgement on someone's ability to process things just by hearing them in an interview.
     
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  31. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I will say this.....again....ib a different way this time:
    The ratio of guys that posess 4.3-40 speed and have football skills is going to shatter guys who talk fast.
    The ONLY place this would have any merit is maybe...just MAYBE in the 6th or 7th round and you really don't have anybody left on your draft board..
    But to suggest that a kid is going to climb a draft board because he talks fast is very silly to me :yes:
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't responded to the geographical differences. I have always been a fast talker relative to my surroundings. I have also always been a fast twitch athlete. However, my rate of speech has fluctuated while my muscle twitch speed hasn't.

    And I respect looking for other ways to analyze prospects. I do it all the time. But some theories are proven right right and some aren't. I really don't see much to support this theory as an evaluation tool.
     
  33. F.O

    F.O New Member

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    okay, so we all want to know who's the better talker.

    McClain or Spikes ?
     
  34. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You have not read a single one of my posts with any attention. I have said numerous times that it has nothing to do with intelligence and more to do with how fast the brain processes information.

    By the way, I'm from South Fla so don't give me any of this "isn't it funny crap".

    I'm constantly respectful of all you guys here, but you all want to twist in the thumb nail the first chance you get.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  35. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    So what you're saying Raf is you're a naturally fast talker (probably still so by the age of 22) and you're a quick twitch athlete? You probably have very quick reflexes and react quickly, too, I would guess..... probably quicker than most. I bet you get a chuckle every time you accidentally drop an ice cube and catch it mid air.

    Our speech can slow down around slower speaking due to our brain's subsconscious ability of mirroring, as it pertains to communication....but I still bet you pick up the pace from time to time.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  36. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I wouldn't say that. It's an interesting take, just a tough concept to swallow. An unique concept brought to the table though, nothing wrong with that.
     
  37. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Dr. John J Ratey (author & clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School):

    There are biological links between speech and your bodies other actions. I'll give more examples when I get home and can write without a dying phone.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  38. F.O

    F.O New Member

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  39. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm 42 now and yes mirroring could be the result of geographical differences. So you could end up with an athlete with very fast processing abilities that speaks slowly b/c of where he lives or who he's surrounded by.
     
  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Why do you say that?..... Do you feel that would help you understand it better without feeling threatened, Mr. Testosterone Alpha Male?
     

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