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Players coaches ruined

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The_Dark_Knight, Jul 7, 2022.

  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I can think of a few Dolphins players that were ruined by a few coaches.
     
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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I've long believed that more than half the flameouts from the first through third rounds were because the players were drafted by the wrong teams. I think a lot of teams draft on physical attributes rather than on natural scheme fits. My hopes for our OL rest in the belief that McD & Co. believe the guys on hand are better suited for an outside zone attack than traditional blocking. We'll see.
     
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Ricky Williams..
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    THIS 1000%.

    When we’ve discussed the draft in the past, so many times certain folks would be advocates for drafting the supposed “best player available” rather than the actual need of the team.

    If, for the sake of conversation, there was a stud of a WR that’s listed as best player available and your team is already stacked with WR, why would you draft him when there is a damned fine offensive center that fits your offensive scheme and can instantly help your team achieve the next level? It just boggles the mind.

    Quarterbacks often get wrapped up in the conversation as well. How many times have we seen a quarterback get drafted by a team whose particular skills set doesn’t fit the offensive scheme of that team?

    I do indeed truly believe that there are many players that are drafted by the wrong teams and have their careers ruined or at best, seriously delayed in having success. For the Dolphins?

    Wes Welker
    Ryan Tannehill
    Jay Ajayi

    Those are a few that immediately come to mind
     
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  5. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Between Ditka and Wanny,I can see why weed was what he wanted. Gateway drug was always bull.
     
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  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd add Ted Ginn, Jr. to that list. He wasn't worthy of his draft position, but I think he would have done better with a different coach to start his career. Actually wound up playing 14 seasons as a WR2/WR3. I think his ceiling was always WR2, but we did him no favors.

    I like your list, BTW. Welker was never going to be WR1 in Miami, so the Pats beat our ***es in that trade. And Tannehill, who was originally a WR in college, needed better development and a better roster to start his career. I'm less certain about Ajayi because half the teams took him off their boards thanks to his knees, so I'm not sure they would have allowed him to carry the load like we did. I think Kenyan Drake could have excelled in another scheme, but got caught up with same ineffective coach/culture combination that let Tannehill down.
     
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  7. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This article on cbssports.com made me think of this thread:
    Robbie Anderson says Sam Darnold shouldn't have played right away with Jets: 'His development was messed up'
    Anderson defended his QB, saying those in charge were responsible for Darnold's career starting off on the wrong foot
    By Jordan Dajani


    [​IMG]
    Icon Sportswire
    Carolina Panthers wide receiver Robbie Anderson has had an interesting offseason. He admitted publicly he was considering retirement at the age of 29, and also posted a comment on Instagram earlier this offseason indicating he was against his team trading for Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield -- something the franchise did this week.

    Anderson said that his social media comment was him defending his current quarterback in Sam Darnold as opposed to criticizing Mayfield. Regardless, it's more likely than not that it will be Mayfield throwing Anderson the ball in 2022.

    In his one season with the Panthers, Darnold threw for 2,527 yards, nine touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 12 games played while going 4-7 as the starter. Anderson has played with Darnold for two teams now in the New York Jets and the Panthers, so if anyone knows the young QB best, it's probably him. During a recent appearance on the I AM ATHLETE podcast, Anderson said that Darnold's NFL career got off on the wrong foot.


    "I will say this with Sam, though," said Anderson. "I feel like his development was all messed up coming into the league. Look at Pat (Mahomes) and look at Lamar (Jackson). They ain't play right away. I don't feel like Sam should have played right away. So I feel like his career got jump-started the wrong way. I feel like being in the building -- the coaches -- I was there. It was all -- it wasn't right. In his defense, I don't feel like he was developed 100 percent correctly."

    Darnold was selected by the Jets with the No. 3 overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft out of USC. He was regarded as one of the top college signal-callers, and won the Archie Griffin Award and Pac-12 Offensive Freshman of the Year in 2016, and then was named First Team All-Pac-12 in 2017. Despite all of the hype, Darnold went 13-25 as the starter in New York and was traded to the Panthers last offseason. With a change of scenery, Darnold was expected to turn over a new leaf à la Ryan Tannehill. That did not happen in 2021.


    Anderson probably has a point with how Darnold's career started. Now, it comes down to if the 25-year-old can rebound and prove to the NFL world that he can be a legitimate starter -- whether that be in Carolina or elsewhere.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...rule-their-conferences-with-these-playmakers/
     
  8. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    This video was kinda interesting, but I am not exactly sure that I agree with a lot of its premise. The premise was always Player X was a good player. Most of this assessment was based on college or a very small sample size. Now, I understand that the video title used the word "ruin," but I gotta think to myself, "Could such a great player really be ruined in such a short period of time by a coach?" Bell and Gase really felt like a prime example. They spent an incredibly short period of time together, and Bell has since gone to really, really good places. I am no Gase fan, but I have a really hard time believing that he did so much damage in such a short period of time. To me, it is much more likely that he regressed.

    Most of the players in this video got multiple chances elsewhere, and things really did not change. A guy like Tannehill is a primo example of poor coaching tanking his career. After leaving the Dolphins, he was almost instantly significantly better. I think there is absolutely no doubt that our coaching staff and supporting cast was just bad.

    I sorta look at this from the perspective of "How many high draft picks or big free agents should have never been Miami Dolphins in the first place?" I have been a fan for a long time, and I can barely remember instances of high draft picks or big free agents busting with us, going elsewhere, and then after seeing them play elsewhere thinking to myself, "I really wish I could have Player X back." Someone should honestly go back to the archives and look at all the discussions about Dion Jordan. People were horrified that he was gonna leave and be a star. Heck, I even remember Malcolm Perry going to the Patriots, and people freaking out that we would rue the day. Honestly, this has happened so infrequently, the thought seldom enters my mind.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I know this is unpopular but in my opinion the Dolphins made a big mistake trading Ted Ginn Jr. He would have been a very good WR2 with Brandon Marshall on the other side. Would have at least had one big play every 4 games if not more. Worth way more than the 5th they got for him.
     
  10. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I never got the hate Ted Ginn got. The man has speed that is unmatched. A solid WR2/3 and incredible return man isn’t a bad return on a first round pick. I get we hoped for more but what we ended up with wasn’t total trash either.
     
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  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight, the fact that the fanbase was pissed off because we passed over Brady Quinn is a hoot. Quinn spent just long enough in the league for an open bottle of soda to go flat and Ginn spent more than a decade as a journeyman on some pretty good teams. He made the playoffs nine times, including with us in 2008.
     
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  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Yea, I was one of those shocked that we didn’t draft Quinn. Wasn’t pissed, just shocked but I do agree, his contribution to the league was about as valuable as someone bringing a package of napkins to a 4th of July barbecue.
     
  13. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Welker fits the bill. He was an undrafted rookie who was cut after the first game by the Chargers. That's not the profile of someone who you'd expect to have immediate success. The Dolphins picked him up off the waiver wire and used him primarily as a returner his first year. Over the next two years his role with the team continued to expand as he developed. Would he have developed quicker with the Pats and Brady? Maybe but I even in the best case scenario he likely needed some time to develop. I think people need to give the FO and coaching staff credit for finding him and development him, we just got taken when it came to the trade.

    I also don't think Ajayi is a good example. His rookie season was cut short by injury but he made an immediate impact when he return in his sophomore campaign and had another good season with Miami and the Eagles in year 3. I doubt he finds more success in those years with another team or coach. His problem was always going to be his knees which is why he flamed out so quickly.

    Tannehill, I agree with. Had he been drafted by a more stable team, that was willing to build around him, he could have seen the success he is now having earlier.
     
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  14. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've always thought our mistake was trading Ginn when we signed Marshall. I think those two could have complimented each other well as WR1 and WR2
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ginn Jr. had a pretty solid career as a return man and a specialist on offense. He was never an every-down WR that could block and run crisp routes, but he did command attention and made several big plays per year.

    Personally, I wouldn't have drafted him at #9. I had to look back, Marshawn Lynch went #12 and Revis went #14. I didn't see any other names jumping off the page in the first three rounds though- even the top 8 were mainly whiffs. Joe Thomas went #3, think he was a pretty solid tackle for awhile there. Revis was clearly the win in the 1st round that year.

    Edit, just looked. Thomas gave up 30 sacks in 11 years, went to 10 Pro Bowls, and never missed a single snap. Some call him the best left tackle in NFL history...so maybe Revis wasn't the best pick of that draft after all.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Joe Thomas is a HOFer for sure. He was making first team all-pro in years when Cleveland was an absolute doormat in the AFC North. The fact that he was that good and they were that bad is why I'm going to hold my breath until I see how the line performs with Armstead.
     
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  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would have drafted Patrick Willis myself.

    He wasn't worth #9 over all, obviously. However, I think he could have been a solid contributor to the Miami Dolphins and worth more than Nolan Carol.
     
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  18. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    LOL. I was gonna say, Joe Thomas is one of the greatest LT's in history. He is the mold.
     
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