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Please help Molly

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Miamian, Aug 23, 2008.

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  1. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    calphin likes this.
  2. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Call me cruel but I would put the cat to sleep. If they are right and there is no cure then the quality of life is never going to be high and I can't imagine its going to be cheap to keep it on medication and immunosuppressants for the rest of its life. I would rather that money be spent where it cane make a little more of a difference.

    Poor cat though.
     
  3. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    I would have to agree. :sad:
     
  4. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    I really disagree with euthanasia because if an animal or person wants to live, it/he/she will. Molly is alive because she wants to be alive. If the pain and suffering were too great, she would die on her own.
     
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  5. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As the owner of a cat, I'd feed it with a syringe and take care of it as long as I had to.
     
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  6. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    No offense but that seems a bit selfish to me. I understand the love for a pet, but there also comes a time when they have zero quality of life and euthanasia is just humane thing to do. I didnt read the story of Molly, so I cant say if putting it down is the right thing to do or not (I suspect it is though) but you have a pet that cant even eat without your assistance it's time to let go.
     
  7. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    One of my cats had no appetite stemming from a kidney condition. He was healthy as can be accept for said condition. As lively as ever and basically the same cat he'd always been for the previous 10 years of his life.

    Cats will decide not to eat because of various things and that leads to other things. He would go to his dish, smell it and walk away. He'd drink a LOT of water but get no food.

    After he went to the vet for a week of treatment to get him healthy and strong the vet told me that he might never eat on his own again. They had been giving him sustenance via IV's but that would be far too expensive for me to keep up on a daily basis. If I wanted to keep him I'd have to feed him via a syringe and give him simple IV's to keep him hydrated just in case he had not drank water that day.

    I fed him via a syringe for almost 2 months. Three times a day I'd do this, along with giving him his medication and his IV (ever tried to give a cat an IV treatment? It is an interesting experience). After 2 months of doing this it became routine but he started to eat on his own. Not nearly as much as he needed and I'd still have to syringe feed him the odd time but overall his condition improved greatly.

    Unfortunately, he passed away about 6 months later because of a totally unrelated condition (he got a concussion that led to a brain hemorrhage) after he fell out of my roommates bedroom window. This is after I had told her 1,000 times to either keep her door shut or her window shut, either or. Stupid ****ing *****.

    My opinion is this. If you have the time and the means to do it AND the vet says there is a hope for recovery AND the animal is not suffering too greatly AND the animal has a decent quality of life while the condition hopefully improves then I think it is your duty as a pet owner to see it through. Pets rely on their owners for a lot and in turn it is the pet owners' responsibility to live up to that. Life is hard sometimes and it is WAY too easy to just say "put it down".
     
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  8. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    You could say the same for a human child. One that can't breathe or eat on his/her own and has zero quality of life. Should the child be euthanized?
     
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  9. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Pets arent human children, as much as some might want them to be we shouldnt pretend that they are.
     
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  10. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    You stated first that it's a quality of life issue for the animal. Pets like dogs and cats are self-aware and feel emotion. How is the fact that there are not human related to their quality of life?
     
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  11. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bitter sweet story. Thanks for sharing. I agree that the pet will have to rely on the owner from time to time, and that as an owner you should do all in your power to help your pet. Not for selfish reasons, but for the betterment of your pet, who doesn't have a voice of their own.

    I think it is inhumane to assume that death is better for a pet. In this case, at least try the syringe feeding and do all in your power to help the cat. By doing so, it will be apparent whether or not the cat has the will to live. It is irresponsible to just throw in the towel and decide to put it down because of adversity.
     
  12. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    N oone wants to say it, but I will. This may be a hard thing to swallow, but yes, the OPTION should be available with strict guidelines.

    In a perfect society, perhaps the answer would always be no. But the reality is that we live in a imperfect world and people have finite resources.

    If I have more than 1 child, I cannot spend all my time with the one in an extreme situation like the one you mention. I need to be able to provide and care for the others in the family.

    If there are others who can provide the care, they would be free to do so.

    This sort of thing is seen in nature everyday when the weakling bird is pushed out of the nest. It survives on its own or dies. Or is picked up by some human passing by and cared for and then perhaps thrives or dies just the same.

    When I get too old to care for myself and have to depend on others to fulfill my basic needs, I would like the option to go out on my own terms as well. Not everyone shares this sentiment.

    As for the cat, if someone has the time and resources to care for it so it can live comfortably and provide some measure of comfort to someone, by all means, do what you can to keep the cat alive.

    However, with all the suffering out in the world today, homeless children, children suffering from diseases, and so forth, I would say that donating towards extending the life of (not saving) a dying cat is towards the bottom of any priority list.
     
  13. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I agree with the bolded part, which was why I felt this animal should have been put to sleep. Its covered in sores and every moment had to be intense misery. There was still some chance that the vet might have figured out what was wrong and if enough people gave money they might have been able to treat it but in the meantime its suffering greatly with no quality of life at all.

    With those kinds of odds and the animal in that kind of condition I would take some time to say goodbye and let it rest in peace.

    And very sorry about your cat man, that's tough.
     
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  14. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    While not entirely agreeing with what you say, I was with you until the end. It's up each individual to decide his/her priorities. It's not up to you to decide that for anyone else.
     
  15. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's related to how we treat them. They dont have the same standing in society, this is a fact. To try and pretend they're the same, or equivalent is a dishonest argument. We treat pets and human children differently, because they are different. Both being self-aware and feeling emotion doesnt suddenly mean we can conflate the two and pretend they're equals.

    As far as euthanizing people, I've put no thought into it for children. If it were an elderly person who was suffering horribly and ready to give up I'd have no problem with assisting in that. Whether it should be an option for younger people is possible, but since I havent really given the idea much thought I cant say for certain I'd be for it.
     
  16. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    I'm going through somewhat of a situation like this myself. See the little dog in my avatar, Jasper, my 15 (will be 16 Dec 26th) year old Sheltie.

    He has turned up his nose at food for the last two days and we're really worried about him. He seems to be fine other than he isn't eating as he should.

    I dread the thought I may have to put him down. It nauseates me :no:
     
  17. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hope everything works itself out and Jasper is fine man
     
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  18. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    How we treat them? Killing them is treating them better than helping them survive? You stipulate that the elderly person would "ready to give up." How do you know that the animal is?
     
  19. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    she would have died on her own if it wasn't for human intervention. you think nature would feed her with a syringe?

    sorry but i think this particular case is a waste of time and effort by all those involved, including whomever decided to write that stupid webpage in the first person speaking as the cat.

    the cat is elderly, has lived its life, and is on its last legs. if you're going to be a bleeding-heart animal person and just have to have a crusade to fight, find a young animal that has the same obstacles and needs help. and don't create a webpage written by the animal in first-person. that is ******ed.


    disclaimer: i realize miamian didn't write that webpage, and i personally DO help animals - i have two pets i picked up from shelters.... so i'm not an animal hater.
     
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  20. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    thank you. tokyo basically said what i was thinking, albeit much more eloquently.
     
  21. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    killing? really?

    dude you need to just go WORK at the animal shelter is this kind of stuff bothers you that bad. this cat is old and pretty much dead. stupid humans are playing god and trying to keep this thing alive till the bitter end. why?

    why does THIS cat get this much attention?

    euthanizing is not "killing" like how some animal rights activists paint it out to be man.... this cat wouldn't survive if you didn't feed it by syringe. that's not killing, that's euthanizing. HUGE difference.
     
  22. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Merriam-Webster definition of euthanasia

    I guess murder isn't killing then either?
     
  23. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    So what? Because humans have intervened you come now with a judgment for everyone else that we should stop?

    Neither you, nor anyone else has the right to say when they should stop trying to keep her alive. It's obvious that you won't contribute to this cause, that's your choice. Others might and that's their choice as well.

    BTW, this is not the first time of that someone has written something while portraying an animal as if it's the one speaking.
     
  24. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    This is like Terry Shaivo, except its a cat.
     
  25. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Maybe. Terry Schiavo had extensive brain damage, but there was a question of whether her cognitive abilities were still functional. That's the key here. Molly hasn't had brain damage. She's just as aware as if she were completely healthy.
     
  26. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    It is always a judgement call of when it's the right time to euthanize a pet, and every situation is different. I cant say the pet wants to die anymore than you can say for sure that it doesnt.
     
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  27. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Well, since we don't know, why not just not do it? If the animal loses the will to live then it will die.
     
  28. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    As an animal lover, I believe that animals have just as much right to live as people do. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an arrogant jackass (IMO), and nobody I would ever associate with.

    When your parents get old, if they developed a medical condition, would you say, "they cannot survive without medical intervention, so they're out of luck."? No. You would do everything you could to help them.

    Because an animal gets old and has issues, people want to kill them. "Thanks for being my devoted friend for your entire life, Fido. You did nothing but try to please me and make me happy the whole time you were here. Now, in your time of greatest need, I'm going to turn my back on you. Turns out that you aren't worth the time or money for me to help you out. Sucks to be you..."
     
  29. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Because I wouldnt want to watch the animal suffer. Especially if there is no hope of it getting better, which may or may not apply in this particular instance.
     
  30. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    I never said anything about making a decision for someone else. I simply said that any priority list I create would place the cat a tthe bottom of any priority lists I create.

    Would you place the cat above concerns for your human family? If you only had resources for your treating your cat or treating your elderly parent or your suffering child, would you place the cat above your parent? Maybe you would. In my list of priorities, my human family would come before my animal family when it comes to allocating resources. It does not mean I don't love my pets.

    If your neighbor's cat was in the same condition, would you prioritize the neighbor's cat over your own family's need to eat? How about the stray who you put a little food out for once in a while. Do you prioritize the stray's needs over your own family?

    That's the point I was making.

    Again, as I said before and quoted above. If YOU, as a person, have the resources to help the cat, by all means, follow your heart and do so.

    I would only suggest that you look around to see if there's perhaps other deserving charities in need of your financial support that could have an impact on more than just one animal (i.e. an animal shelter).

    Oh, and by the way, one of the primary duties of animal shelters is to euthanize strays and unwanted pets. On Guam, I believe the numbers are between 3,000 and 6,000 dogs a year are euthanized by the shelter because they are unadoptable and don't have the resources to keep them all alive.
     
  31. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    The disconnect that many are pointing out is that this is a cat and not a human. You can't make an honest correlation between the two in this regard IMO.

    Like TFF said, if you value a cats life on the same par as a human's thats your prerogative. But not everyone has the means to provide for a pet in the way some here have suggested. I dont think its all inhumane to have a sick animal put down. JMO though.
     
  32. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Hey bro, thanks and I guess he'll be okay. This evening for dinner we gave him "people food" (we had stir-fry) and he gobbled it all up. Sometimes I think he justs wants to hold out, and not eat his dog food, but wants the people food.....and he knows we'll give it to him. I can't look in those eyes and not feed him even when he is just being ornory (spelling ?)

    I am a sucker for a doggie with those sad eyes, and trust me he knows how to work me :sidelol:
     
  33. calphin

    calphin deadly at 250 yards!!

    I had a dog I loved to death euthanised (sid). he was part of our family, lived to be 12 years old. he had some ailment, cant recall what it was for sure. but he was alert and somewhat happy. when you watched him walk, you could see the pain. I had him euthanised, does that mean I love him any less? NO it doesn't, I just didn't want to see him suffer over my greed.
     
  34. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    lol, good to hear everything is alright.
     
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  35. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    YOU wouldn't want to watch it die. I can turn all of this around and ask if you would euthanize one of your parents or children who's suffering miserably.

    Beyond that, you state yourself that in this case she may get better, but it's better to just to euthanize her anyway???
     
  36. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    I only took exception to the word "any." That implies that everyone should have the same priorities. I don't have a problem with you making that priority for yourself.

    If it's the case of my own family, then I have tough decisions to make. But, let's explore the issue. Let's say that my neighbor's pet is suffering miserably and needs an operation. Does that mean that my kids don't go to Disneyworld that year? I think so. If it's a case between my child getting a needed operation or the neighbor's pet, then yes, I have to say my child, charity begins at home. If it's a case between my child an my pet, then I go into debt.

    I know a family that is facing an issue that is not too dissimilar. They have three children, ranging from about 3 to 6. They've also adopted a pet kitten. We were having lunch and the mother said that she would probably have the cat declawed. The main reason is that she's afraid that it may severely scratch one of the kids, like let's say one of the kids pulls its tail. I told her that declawing a cat can cause psychological trauma. It makes a cat feel insecure and they sometimes start biting. They're going to seriously weigh the situation.

    Oh, and I know that animal shelters put down animals and it's a painful thing to know. It's not only Guam that does that. One of the reasons that I want to support Girgurim is because they avoid doing that as much as possible.
     
  37. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    molly probably doesnt even exist. or has been dead for a long time. anyone consider that money could be a motive here? preying on poor saps who think they can save everything from dying.
     
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  38. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    I just spoke to the Ministry of Environment's Animal Welfare Division. They confirmed that Girgurum has permits, is registered, and well known in the environmental community.
     
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  39. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    thanks for clearing that up.

    i think the world is trying to tell us that cat should be dead. i dont think its worth investing money into ensuring that the poor thing suffers longer. it probably just wishes it could be shipped to china. They know what to do with it there.

    I dont mean to be cruel. But a countless, mind boggling amount of creatures die everyday. Unless youre a vegetarian, its hard to pull off any sympathy towards a diseased house cat. How many chickens, cows, and pigs die everyday to feed the US alone? What? Cats and dogs are different you say. Because they are dependant on us? Guess what, so are cows and chickens!!! How many cows would survive in the wild against wolves, bears, and large cats? NONE! How about chickens? NONE!!! In essence, we're keeping them alive just so we can kill them. So just because an animal is dependant on us for its survival on this planet; that doesnt mean we should pick and choose which ones should be murdered.
     
  40. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!

    OK...this is moving a little off topic, but some places can't grow enough food for folks to be vegetarians. Thus, some animals become options for food.

    Maybe the cat would enjoy playing with some Indian food.

    Serious topic with link goodness:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/13/2334546.htm

    Eat rats, 'solve global food crisis'
     

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