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Possible early return for Jordan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cuchulainn, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-will-mount-on-union-to-get-drug-policy-done/

     
  2. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Is it all drug offenders or those caught using a certain drug?
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting that Wes Welker, Orlando Scandrick and Dion Jordan are being lumped together. Two of them tested positive for amphetamines because of tainted molly. One of them tested positive for amphetamines because of... ?
     
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    No, it's just adjusting the maximum limits to be more in line with other sports. So the major offenders would still be screwed, but this petty stuff would go away.
     
  5. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Very interesting indeed... lol
     
  6. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It sure seems like every time something bad happens to a team with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady at QB, we get new rules. Interesting.
     
  7. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Lose Wheeler, gain Jordan... that would be a good day!
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You're saying molly isn't a banned substance? Most of the stuff sold as molly these days does not have any MDMA in it at all, and anyone taking it would have to be a damned fool.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You're not getting it though....players are currently banned for a droplet of it, or even a fraction of a drop. The NFL standards are 10-12x more stringent than any other organization, and many of our bans fall in between that minute standard. In other words, Jordan, Welker and the others would have tested clean if they were in the NBA, MLB, college football or any other organization. We're not talking about the players who had large amounts in their system...only the guys that had trace amounts that no other league would penalize them for.

    Heck, there have been players banned for "contact highs", when pot is legal in two states now. That means they didn't smoke it, or even intentionally get around it...they were just in the vicinity, never got high, and they're banned for a month. That's far too aggressive and it hurts the sport.
     
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  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    MDMA is a banned substance. I'm fairly certain it isn't going to trigger a positive test however.
     
  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So you're saying if you took pure clean molly it isn't going to trigger a positive test? So there is no test for pure MDMA?
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's not what I was talking about, though thank you for the explanation.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That crap is everywhere C, MDMA or MDA


    As for a rule change, personally would not be in favor of it even it benefits us.

    It forces teams to adapt, and as we saw in MLB it becomes a slippery slope.
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm a research nerd so I've looked at this topic is ridiculous detail. It is actually what you're talking about, because performance companies can add trace amounts MDMA or even completely banned substances in the USA without disclosing it on the label. They do this because they want the product to work better than their competitor's, and since they're sitting inside a lab in Sweden (or wherever), what the NFL mandates has very little impact on their thought process. Remember, just because something is banned here, doesn't make it so worldwide. That's why nobody else is as anal as the NFL on their testing- they know it's a flawed system that can't be fixed at the federal level.

    The problem lies in the "dietary supplement" industry- that includes everything from 24 Hour Energy shots to weight loss pills to Red Bull to hardcore bodybuilder supplements. None of these things are regulated by the FDA and because they're all lumped together, taking ANYTHING is dangerous if you're in the NFL. A coach tells you to bulk up though so that's what you do...and I guarantee you that Jordan and several others were shocked when they failed.

    Since I've said from the beginning, I doubt Welker popped a few Mollies with his beer during the off-season. He took something that he thought was 100% completely okay, and it had a little something-something that gave him the positive results.

    You're right, very few street drugs have MDMA in them anymore; it's a mixture of bath salts and other ingredients. Molly definitely shows on drugs test though (if you are testing for it), which the NFL does. That's like with any test though; if you test strictly for cocaine, then it doesn't show marijuana. It all depends on the test itself and what it's made to test for. Just because a street drug is rare doesn't mean that they don't check for it anyway though- how else would we learn about new street drugs if we didn't test for the uncommon stuff?

    Sorry for the long answer but again, I've researched this far more than I should have a few months ago. It's nice to be able to show off my geek mentalities every now and then.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Problem is, the NFL has a program to contact them for approval before any substance is ingested.

    As for Molly, uhm yeah, not seeing a run on sassafras oil, whatever it is that they are calling MDA it is most likely NOT MDA
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Sorry, I meant positive for PEDs.

    MDMA isn't under the PED list IIRC. It's under the substance abuse category. Which means testing positive for mdma is going to be treated the same as recreational drugs - like marijuana. I believe first offense under the recreational drug policy doesn't entail suspension.

    So if they took laced MDMA, they have a legitimate argument that they did not intentionally take PEDs. There's also a possibility that the test erroneously identified MDMA as an amphetamine.


    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  17. JOHN_M

    JOHN_M New Member

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    The only mdma you get nowadays is bath salts and crystal meth! Your a fool if you think otherwise!

    SENT FROM MY LG G-FLEX ON THE NOW NETWORK FROM SPRINT!
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It is really easy to get a testing kit and test your mdma.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, do we think Dion Jordan took steroids or got suspended for amphetamines?

    Cause if he didn't take steroids, like I've been saying he didn't, then does everyone see my point on how it was a mistake?
     
  20. kwill29

    kwill29 Member

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    Would Jones be allowed to return as well if they strike a deal? Or did he test positive for something else?
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well it's 8 o'clock, he ain't playing and this is all probably BS..
     
  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Jordan's story is that he took amphetamines, but that could be a lie. The league doesn't disclose what he was busted for, so you have to trust the player/agent or leak. Id he actually took a PED, then this would of course have no bearing on him. It would be an interesting story if the others got the green light to play and Jordan didn't. Egg on some faces.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmmmmmm..

    Fight club...help me.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lets say it wasn't a PED...

    This staff allowed this freak to gain 30 lbs..lol..they better hope it was ped's or Folks will have some serious splaining to do..

    Omar...I'm challenging you to get to the bottom of this, you have a real scoop story here to uncover..go for it.
     
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  25. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Why would his weight gain be better if it was from steriods vs. not?
     
  26. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I thought it was 20lbs?
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    cause if it wasn't chemically enhanced then it's not good weight brother, and only strengthens my suspicions about his movement.
     
  28. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Meaning you don't think it is muscle and that he just got fat?
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He weighed in at the combine at 248, and we saw that movement and coordination on display, he killed it.

    He weighed in training camp at 275.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Correct, however. With Dion Jordan's frame you will never be able to tell that he's fat, his genetics distribute weight symmetrically..however if you took a legit body fat test from his combine til training camp this year you would be shocked..

    If it's bad weight, which I believe it is, it would affect his movement skills, explosiveness, and balance, which, and I'm very confident in saying this, we saw on display all preseason..don't care that he had 4 pressures and 2 hits and no sacks against 2nd and 3rd stringers in 100 reps or something.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also nasty, if that weight gain was steroid induced you would of seen a very very explosive human being at 275..
     
  32. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    How do you know what they allowed him to gain? John Jerry used to come in to camp at 650 pounds but that doesn't mean Sparano was spoon feeding him cheeseburgers. Before the ped thing was announced Philbin was asked about the weight gain and he said something like I don't think he's lost any quickness so its great. I think you can infer from that comment that keeping the quickness was a priority for the coaches.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If you saw him in just shorts, no shirt, you could tell pretty well whether his weight gain was mostly muscle or mostly fat. I don't believe for a minute that the 27 lbs he supposedly gained is primarily him getting fat.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Talk later..
     
  35. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Suggesting that the marijuana metabolite would show up in a player's urine drug screen (with any significance) simply because he is in the same room with someone who is smoking marijuana is pretty farfetched.

    Passive inhalation may show very minimal levels of the metabolite (<5 ng/mL), but the likelihood of this is uncommon, and the conditions would have to be "severe".

    The cutoff levels on these screens are usually around 10-20 ng/mL (in some cases, even higher), which is ridiculously low.

    If these players are testing positive, they are indulging.
     
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  36. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    Im sure he'd be off cycle by the time he came back to camp. He'd keep most the weight but not be as explosive as he was 30 lbs lighter.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    okaaaaay, so if he didn't use steroids how much of that 27 do you think was muscle?
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you don't have a specific plan for your million dollar investment than you don't have the correct people in place..John Jerry is not the example you wanna use my friend, he failed because he had bad supervision and no discipline.
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You're the one who said he didn't use. I think he probably did. My belief is he took both steroids and a stimulant, but took a masking agent for the steroids, so only tested pos for the stimulant. I'd say his body fat pct is roughly the same now as it was at 250 lbs.
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It could be done, would take a nearly psychotic level of commitment to pull it off in such a short time though.

    Problem would be combing power lifts and speed training and nutrition in a 7 month window

    You'd either have to be a natural or a psycho or use steroid speedballs.

    Problem would be, eating, speed is not known for increasing appetite
     

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