Post news about Browns..

"schmolioot wrote:

We got no love from the CBSsportsline pickers. Unanimously picked the Browns both straight up and ATS.

Straight up is against the spread this week. The game is a PK.

"Stitches wrote:

Armando Salguero ‏@ArmandoSalguero 6m
The Cleveland Browns are 1-12 in regular-season openers since 1999. And 12 of those games were home games.

And the Dolphins are 1-6 in their Week 1 games recently.

Both teams are slow starters. One of them has to win. I think it'll be Miami. I feel strong enough that if it's not Miami, I may actually change my outlook for the season.

"72 Dolphins wrote:

Straight up is against the spread this week. The game is a PK.

Bovada has Cleveland -1 with equal vig on both sides.

BREAKING NEWS: Browns will be 0-1 after week one of this season.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Bovada has Cleveland -1 with equal vig on both sides.

Still have it at a PK at Canbet - 5 dimes - SBG. It's not a game anyone wants to touch.

That's the funny thing about a new season...and the reason they play the games...

On paper, depending on the site, it's generally a toss-up. Many people have the Browns improving, and the Dolphins staying the same record-wise, and this game isn't as crucial to the entire season many are playing it up to be. I believe Miami wins a close one here, but if it goes the other way, it doesn't mean the season's over. How about when the Bills shutout the Patriots to start the season a few years back? The Patsies went to the SB that year, and what did the Bills do? Right...

It would certainly cause the road to the playoffs to be more difficult, strictly by the numbers, but losing in and of itself wouldn't be any indication either way...if they lose and look poorly, particularly in many of the areas we see as strengths, that's another story...

This can be said of 32 teams EVERY year...it's why, as a fan, you get to at least pull for the best.

I expect our offensive play-calling to be more opened up, as per Sherman. That's the main thing I'm looking for.

The Browns literally don't have a kicker on their roster right now. I love the fact that no matter how many people are fired in that franchise, the new ones are equally inept.

Personally I'm not going to criticize them for not having a kicker at the moment. They're having tryouts today. If ever there was a plug-and-play position in the NFL, that's it.

5 loses by less than 7pts last season, 2 missed game winnings FGs....my head knows we were 7-9 last year, but my heart says should have been 9-7.

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

5 loses by less than 7pts last season, 2 missed game winnings FGs....my head knows we were 7-9 last year, but my heart says should have been 9-7.

I don't know. That can be twisted so many ways. Yeah the Dolphins lost four games by 3 points, 3 points, 3 points and 5 points in 2012. But they also won three games by 3 points, 3 points and 4 points. Missed kicks could happen any time. What about the made kicks that helped us win the close games?

To me any game you win or lose by less than 7 points is a one-play game. Logically speaking, one play could have changed the final outcome of any game decided by less than 7 points (assuming XPs as automatic). The Dolphins had 7 such games in 2012 and went 3-4 during those games. Well, why should that be so surprising for a 7-9 team? They also went 4-5 in games that by definition would have taken more than just a play or just a drive to change the outcome.

I said my head knows.....:tongue2:

but for me....its about end of the game chance to win.....(yes lots of plays dictate final outcome)....but end of game, chance to win....make FG its a W....thats the differnce. Not every single game thats close, but those 2. Execute and its a W.

So for me, the games we lost that were close, fine....the games we won that were close, fine....but the 2 we let slip through our hands (foot:wink2:) in a simply do or die execution moment. My heart says 9-7 based on just those two season defining moments.

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

I said my head knows.....:tongue2:

but for me....its about end of the game chance to win.....(yes lots of plays dictate final outcome)....but end of game, chance to win....make FG its a W....thats the differnce. Not every single game thats close, but those 2. Execute and its a W.

So for me, the games we lost that were close, fine....the games we won that were close, fine....but the 2 we let slip through our hands (foot:wink2:) in a simply do or die execution moment. My heart says 9-7 based on just those two season defining moments.

My head reached a similar conclusion. My reasoning is that there are certain plays that you expect to be made. Those missed FGs are plays that teams make 80% - 90% of the time. I take that to mean that if that season were replayed 100 times with everything else being equal, they'd end up 9-7 more often than not. Obviously, you can do that with all plays, but I see FGs, particularly those under 50 yards, as among the most automatic in the game.

"rafael wrote:

My head reached a similar conclusion. My reasoning is that there are certain plays that you expect to be made. Those missed FGs are plays that teams make 80% - 90% of the time. I take that to mean that if that season were replayed 100 times with everything else being equal, they'd end up 9-7 more often than not. Obviously, you can do that with all plays, but I see FGs, particularly those under 50 yards, as among the most automatic in the game.

This is a fallacy of an argument because you are talking ONLY re-playing those plays...the plays whose outcomes you didn't really like. You're not talking about re-playing all the other plays in the game, which if re-played could easily have affected the outcome at least as much as those missed kicks.

You're cherry-picking plays with outcomes that didn't suit your taste and deciding you'd like to send those particular cards back to the deck and get some new cards. Football doesn't work like 7-card draw.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Personally I'm not going to criticize them for not having a kicker at the moment. They're having tryouts today. If ever there was a plug-and-play position in the NFL, that's it.

Wonder if Carpenter lands a job with the Browns?

EDIT: Nope he signed with the Bills.

So we should beat the Bills by 3.:lol:

"ckparrothead wrote:

This is a fallacy of an argument because you are talking ONLY re-playing those plays...the plays whose outcomes you didn't really like. You're not talking about re-playing all the other plays in the game, which if re-played could easily have affected the outcome at least as much as those missed kicks.

You're cherry-picking plays with outcomes that didn't suit your taste and deciding you'd like to send those particular cards back to the deck and get some new cards. Football doesn't work like 7-card draw.

I see it differently...its not replaying ONLY those plays....its simply realizing should have beens, because a successful FG, which is expected, would have produced the W (regardless of all other plays.) ~ in OT and no chance for opponent to respond. Make the kick, walk off the field a winner.

Watching a do or die FG attempt is perfect scenario to simply say, make it, its a W. We missed, and turned two W's into non-Wins. simple as that..and that doesnt change any other aspect of the game. Just make the kick, its expected!

In the simplest of terms it turned a 7-9 factual season, from one that should have been 9-7 with no other need to change all other close games. 2 missed FG's in black/white cut/dry situation.

"ckparrothead wrote:

This is a fallacy of an argument because you are talking ONLY re-playing those plays...the plays whose outcomes you didn't really like. You're not talking about re-playing all the other plays in the game, which if re-played could easily have affected the outcome at least as much as those missed kicks.

You're cherry-picking plays with outcomes that didn't suit your taste and deciding you'd like to send those particular cards back to the deck and get some new cards. Football doesn't work like 7-card draw.

You can take ANYTHING out to that Nth degree and reach the same conclusion. If you can't say, that 2 missed but easily makeable kicks last year cost us the two games they happened in, then you can't say anything with any level of certainty. You cannot say with certainty that Jon Martin was bad in the preseason, because you can't account for all the machinations that went into his performance, in and out of his control. Hell, no game can be broken down if we are to adhere to this extreme guideline.

As a group, we can decide what the line is. The line can very commonly be found at field goals made and missed. This is neither a surprise nor a shocking notion.

It's not like saying, dang, that dropped TD right before halftime screwed us! Carpenter's Jets & Cards missed OT FGs were the ultimate cut/dry scenario for an L that should have been a converted W moment.

@alexmarvez The @Browns have agreed to contract terms with K Billy Cundiff, a source told FOX Sports

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

I see it differently...its not replaying ONLY those plays....its simply realizing should have beens, because a successful FG, which is expected, would have produced the W (regardless of all other plays.) ~ in OT and no chance for opponent to respond. Make the kick, walk off the field a winner.

Yeah, actually it IS just replaying the plays you didn't like at the end of the game. No other way to say it. You're cherry picking.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Yeah, actually it IS just replaying the plays you didn't like at the end of the game. No other way to say it. You're cherry picking.

I just flately disagree when the play in question is a walk off the field FG = win! Its not cherry picking! Its the ultimate moment in time that clearly defines a no doubt Win.

"ckparrothead wrote:

I don't know. That can be twisted so many ways. Yeah the Dolphins lost four games by 3 points, 3 points, 3 points and 5 points in 2012. But they also won three games by 3 points, 3 points and 4 points. Missed kicks could happen any time. What about the made kicks that helped us win the close games?

To me any game you win or lose by less than 7 points is a one-play game. Logically speaking, one play could have changed the final outcome of any game decided by less than 7 points (assuming XPs as automatic). The Dolphins had 7 such games in 2012 and went 3-4 during those games. Well, why should that be so surprising for a 7-9 team? They also went 4-5 in games that by definition would have taken more than just a play or just a drive to change the outcome.

The Rams game we didn't deserve to win, they controlled the game for the most part and lost primarily b/c they missed 4 FGs and Janoris Jenkins had a brain fart vs Marlon Moore. I consider that a loss. But NY and AZ were games we controlled from the start, the Jets and Cards spent most of the day trying to get back into the game. Carp had 2 chances to beat NY and he had a chance to put us up 16-0 on Arizona mid way through the 3rd quarter. Those are the only games on the schedule I'd say "should have" gone the other way.

8-8 season IMO.

"GMJohnson wrote:

The Rams game we didn't deserve to win, they controlled the game for the most part and lost primarily b/c they missed 4 FGs and Janoris Jenkins had a brain fart vs Marlon Moore. I consider that a loss. But NY and AZ were games we controlled from the start, the Jets and Cards spent most of the day trying to get back into the game. Carp had 2 chances to beat NY and he had a chance to put us up 16-0 on Arizona mid way through the 3rd quarter. Those are the only games on the schedule I'd say "should have" gone the other way.

8-8 season IMO.

I remember there being an outrageous fumble in that STL game that they didn't give us. Am I wrong in this?

"invid wrote:

I remember there being an outrageous fumble in that STL game that they didn't give us. Am I wrong in this?

Dang my mind is bad...Was it Bradford who fumbled while getting sacked?

"GMJohnson wrote:

Dang my mind is bad...Was it Bradford who fumbled while getting sacked?

I can't remember, but it was outrageous.

Edit: Why do I think it was Chris Givens? Forced by Sean Smith? I forget.

Edit 2: Definitely Chris Givens, ruled incomplete but he fumbled it. Also, Sam Bradford got saved by the tuck rule.

"GMJohnson wrote:

The Rams game we didn't deserve to win, they controlled the game for the most part and lost primarily b/c they missed 4 FGs and Janoris Jenkins had a brain fart vs Marlon Moore. I consider that a loss. But NY and AZ were games we controlled from the start, the Jets and Cards spent most of the day trying to get back into the game. Carp had 2 chances to beat NY and he had a chance to put us up 16-0 on Arizona mid way through the 3rd quarter. Those are the only games on the schedule I'd say "should have" gone the other way.

8-8 season IMO.

Must look at the game in those field goal miss games to see whether we hung physically with the other team or did we get lucky to get into that position.