Tate doesn't always catch the ball. That's MY observation from having watched numerous games of his. The reason the conversation came up to begin with was because when hooshoops asked me about Golden Tate, I brought that up and he was like that's funny when I spoke with Jeff Ireland at Champions after the Panthers game that was his exact comment about Golden Tate. So right away I personally have every reason to doubt this conspiracy theory that Ireland immediately lies about everything to everyone. In fact, judging from past statements to the press, he's prone to letting the wrong thing slip to the exact people you don't want to let something slip to...and so I would say that if he's just sitting around in a bar with Joe Schmuck who actually knows some football and can speak intelligently about it, then when the subject of Golden Tate comes up and over a beer Ireland says "He doesn't always catch the ball", then he probably said that because "He doesn't always catch the ball", and there probably wasn't a gleam in his eye representing some pathologically paranoid voice in his head saying "Wait Jeff! Don't answer! Lie to him! He may LOOK like bus driver but he'll find a way to screw us, I know it!"
That's a good point, and if I recall correctly you're referring to the "will the Dolphins draft an offensive or defensive player" thing. Ireland mentioning that Tate doesn't always catch the ball is small potatos regardless- but you'd think that these guys would generally be very tight lipped. I would imagine that paranoia is alive and well in the NFL- stealing signals, the whole Bellichick taping thing, draft info, bugging phones wouldn't surprise me- you name it, someone's probably done it or thought about doing it. They're trained to lie their asses off- what players do they like, will Jason Taylor be traded, you name it. It's a culture of ultra competetive liars.
I would, too.... but not at the cost of possibly missing the playoffs and competing for a SB. I like Vontae.... a lot!!!! Gonna get a VD jersey probably. But I'd still rather have Bryant McFadden, Leigh Bodden, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Butler, and Sammie Lee Hill...... than having ONLY Vontae Davis and Sean Smith. Because adding 2 solid vets in FA would've allowed us to prioritize WR in the 1st round of the draft rather than waiting to the 3rd. Now we're struggling at WR and have 2 diaper dandy CB's that might prevent us from reaching the playoffs this year. Adding 2 vets would've also opened up 2 extra draft slots at 2a and 3 to be used on other needs. But instead we let a ton of FA money sit on the table. (unnecessary step backwards IMO).
Me too! I was going to get a Long jersey, but now I want VD. I got a sweet VD card the other day. Only 1 of 5. You didn't reply to my PM though.
Hey.... I know a guy who knows a girl who wishes he didn't know said girl. I'm sure it could be arranged for the right price. I haven't gotten a PM.
I don't doubt that Tate has dropped a few balls. However I have also watched numerous games of his and I have never seen him drop one. His last four games he averaged 9 receptions. If you're catching 9 passes a game I don't think you're dropping too many. I mean how many times is he targeted? Granted I haven't seen every snap of every game so I'm not an authority but anybody that saw Hard Knocks with the Cincinnati Bengals earlier this year knows that even Ochocinco drops a few passes now and then. Tate played running back in high school so the perception is out there that he's not a true wideout and maybe his hands are suspect. Personally I don't know how you end up a finalist for the Biletnikoff Award if you drop a lot passes. Obviously I can't speak for Jeff Ireland but if I was a GM I wouldn't tell anybody who wasn't part of my organization my true opinion of any player I was scouting. If I wanted to draft Golden Tate in the 2nd round I would tell anybody who wanted to listen that Tate isn't really all that great. I don't care if its my mailman or the chick who works at Starbucks. Then if Golden Tate somehow slid to me in the 2nd round I would sprint to the podium. Vice versa if there was a player who I wasn't really interested in I would tell anybody who wanted to listen that they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or is it more realistic to believe that Jeff Ireland tells anybody who asks his honest opinion of any player in the upcoming draft? I don't mean to imply that Jeff Ireland is constantly lying. I just believe that it would be smart on his part to conceal the whole truth. For example if you believe that Golden Tate is a game-breaking playmaker, clutch under pressure, a fantastic return man, tough, smart, runs great routes, and occasionally drops a pass like most wideouts... You might say "He doesn't always catch the ball." You wouldn't be lying. You just wouldn't be telling the whole truth. You may recall last year after Jeff Ireland scouted Alabama he said, "Alabama has a lot of great players." There was a lot of speculation on this board as to which players he might be referring to. Then the draft rolled around and the Dolphins didn't pick one guy from the Crimson Tide. Now Ireland didn't say anything that wasn't true. Alabama did have a lot of great players coming out that year. However he didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know either.
Resend your PM. Yeah.... I love gettin those rare ones too!! You probably wouldn't want to see my Henne's then.
I don't understand that comment. I'm not being a smartass. I just don't understand what you mean. I agree that we should have spent more money in free agency but only if there were players to warrant it. You're comparing apples to oranges. Davis and Smith are young cornerbacks who will solidify our secondary for years to come. McFadden and Bodden are plugging holes until the Cardinals and Patriots can upgrade. Hakeem Nicks, Victor Butler, and Sammie Lee Hill would have been great but we still could have drafted Davis and Smith along with Connor Barwin, Sammie Lee Hill, and Louis Murphy. Obviously Ireland and Parcells felt Pat White, Patrick Turner, and Brian Hartline were better options.
Everything you just said and now thinking about his stats on the season made the name "Josh Reed" simply scream out to me. Now the fact that I don't know how that makes me feel is something that concerns me. Edit: As per the Bama comment, perhaps we've had our eyes on McClain and/or Cody (maybe the LG too) for a while.
You watch him against Michigan? He had a nice statistical game but he dropped some very easy passes because he tried to put it into his body instead of using his hands. I vividly remember one in the back of the right end zone where he out jumped Donovan Warren and dropped the ball because he brought it into his chest and didn't trap it. He's not a pure pass catcher IMO but he is still good.
I remember reading his post about this conversation (not trying to take credit from hooshoops whatseoever)...If I recall correctly, he also said that Ireland seemed to like LaFell quite a bit. Another interesting tidbit was that Ireland was actually sitting there with Ross, and he said something to the effect of "and for you a receiver". Pairing that with Ross coming out and saying we need a receiver in the media just a bit after...makes Ireland's words even more believable IMO.
Yep, a few others. It's just that Michigan game sticks out in my mind when I think about Tate's issues. That game right there has it all on display.
I don't remember hoos saying that to me, this was a different time I think. He probably shared what he overheard from Ireland multiple times, this time I'm talking about was just a few days ago.
Well there you go. I didn't see the Michigan game. I watched Notre Dame versus USC, Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Stanford. I don't remember any drops in those games. Also I wouldn't call 9 catches for 115 yards and 2 touchdowns a nice statistical game. That's a fantastic statistical game. Would we even be talking about drafting a wideout if Ginn put up numbers like that? One last thing. Its obvious Golden Tate is one of my favorite wideouts coming out this year. However I'm just as high on Arrelious Benn, Mardy Gilyard, Jeremy Williams, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis, and Dezmon Briscoe.
One thing about Brandon LaFell...he reminds me of Vontae Davis. Vontae was the king of technical inconsistency but had huge upside, really good size and tremendous burst. LaFell has huge upside, really good size and tremendous burst. I think you'll see exactly what I'm talking about when I post the cutups that I've done on him. LaFell has a transition to him, he can eat up cushion and get open deep. Everything else is just pretty inconsistent.
Again, I'm not pretending the meeting didn't happen, I'm just saying that I'm wary of the truth of Jeff Ireland talking up or down prospects without an agenda, especially given the rollicking he got from Parcells after he spoke out of turn atthe Senior Bowl 2 years ago. BTW, I had sex with Juliette Lewis last week in her hotel room. I even have a photo with her to prove it happened. You know what I mean.
Judging by the uncomfortable look in her eye, she wouldn't take a sip of any drink you handed her unless she bottled it herself.
You know her hand was only on top of yours because she just got done moving yours from an inappropriate area, Mr. Grabby.
I have to wonder where that Lafell burst was when I was looking for it. I didn't see anything close to a Dwayne Bowe burst out of Lafell. I hope that you're right and I missed it, because then there would be another WR worthy of us drafting in the 1st. Lafell's talents have escaped me- I'm loking forward to seeing whatever it is that you're going to post on him.
LaFell carrier that overrated tag for me; I have seen him disappear in games and if you do it in college it will carry over
Oh trust me. I dislike the prospect. But I have every indication that NFL people do like him so that's when I have to dig deeper and make sure I'm seeing what they're seeing, and that way I can be sure that I dislike LaFell for all the right reasons and not the wrong ones. One thing I can definitely see, that I know they see, is that transition needed to eat up cushion and run deep.
I still think the criticism of Mays is too harsh. He doesn't deserve some of the things being said about him. He's a solid football player, and the problem is people think he should be more than solid, and since he carries a high draft grade they seethe all this hate at him. But it could very well be that he's still coming into his own and with his talent level a process of him coming into his own could see him hit the end of the line at All Pro.
I'd have to think Brian Price is on our board with his versatility to play DE or nose since he can take on double teams. The kid's a joy to watch!.... and has a good head on his shoulders and appears to be a total team player. I was hoping he'd slide to our 2nd pick, but doesn't appear so now. He'd be an upgrade at LDE and a perfect complement to Starks IMO. Posted via Mobile Device
With Mays, imho it will be clear quickly whether or not he is a David Fulcher type of S, or just a big guy who can run fast, either he has some instincts and they appear on film, or he likely will take yrs to develop them. But the difference is do you have a "good' to "pretty good" player, or a top 5 Safety. FWIW I like him, to me the youth on the USC defense is hampering him this season. As for "potential dolphins" a part of me wonders if we roll the dice and make an offer on a RFA Wr (Too many to list) or even a ILB like Barret Ruud simply because if the player is young enough, say 27, and is ready to play from Day 1, then the draft pick a 2 or a 3, would be worth it. It would be a smart move, gutsy but it would cut time off of the rebuilding process without mortgaging the future.
I am intrigued by Freddie Barnes. I know that he will not run well and this will hamper him in the draft. When I see him I see a guy who knows how to run routes and do the things that get him open. I see good drive out of breaks. good hand play off the line. I think who ever drafts him is going to get a solid receiver. He was recruited as a QB and played RB early on so he is still learning the position. I dont care what school you play for 138 catches is impressive.
I aggree. I spent the weekend watching a few games of USC that i had taped and he can be impressive. I think as a traditional SS he would be a terror. His ability to make up ground between himself and the ballcarrier is impressive. The question is going to be as more of a FS. I dont think Pete Carrol's system did him any favor in terms of getting ready for the pros. He plays way too far back to determine what he can do exactly. Physically he's got everything but we'll have to see if he's the next Ed Reed
I absolutely love Brian Price. I'm not sure however if he can play 3-4 DE at the same level. I think he's a pro bowl 4-3 DT and a 4-3 team should draft him.
A couple of guys not on that list that I'd like to hear your opinions on are Eric Decker and Darryl Sharpton. Decker may not have huge upside, but he seems like the type this FO might like. Sharpton I know is undersized, but IMO you have to take a serious look at these UM linebackers when you see the kind of success they all seem to have in the NFL despite some not blowing you away in college. He reminds me a lot of Jon Beason who also isn't all that big and didn't jump out at you as a stud at Miami, but has been great in Carolina.
I think I'm with Con on this one, with respect to the OLB position. A.J. Edds is my guy. Thing is we have Jason Taylor, Joey Porter and Cameron Wake. They're all pass rushers. Taylor is playing too heavy and he's being asked to play on the strong side, that's not his game. What we need is a guy that could man the strong side spot. He doesn't even need to be on the pass rush lines right away. We have three guys we can stick in on the pass rush lines, and one guy in Wake that should basically be in on every single pass rush line. So what I'm looking for is a guy that is good against the run and can cover. He doesn't need to be a great pass rusher right away, maybe we can teach him that as he goes. I think Edds fits that profile. You can get him in the second or third round, too.
Here's the thing about Marvin Austin from UNC. He was a five star recruit coming out of high school. That's big because I think our staff have shown that they like guys that have basically always been very good. He played right away as a true freshman. That's also big because our staff have shown that they do appreciate the merits of experience. He didn't start as a freshman but he played significantly. I remember when North Carolina came down to South Florida for a home game and I attended the game. There wasn't really anybody on the defense that I liked, even Kentwan Balmer, except for the safety Deunta Williams, and this freshman defensive tackle with an ENORMOUS @ss named Marvin Austin, wearing #9. He ran around in that game all beastly and made 5 tackles, including 1 for loss. Back then my girlfriend liked for me to explain some of the finer points of football and so I pointed at Marvin and said you see that guy? You ever hear talking heads use the term "bubble"? That's bubble. That's like the epitome of bubble. Look at the size of that butt. That kid is going to be something in a few years, watch. Don't know what I'm talking about? Fast forward to about 37 seconds into this video. This is from his true freshman year. He's at LDT. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OcYUOREKn8"]YouTube- NC State 31 UNC 27, Nov. 10, 2007 - Go Pack![/ame] What you like about him is he's built like a god damn stump. He reminds me of Ahtyba Rubin that way. But he's very, very active and gets by blockers, unlike what I felt Rubin did in college and during the All Star performances. He's in shape, and that's why he's 300 pounds. But, you can tell there's all kinds of room on him to pack on some more weight. That's a gut that's itching to get big, but hard work keeps it trim. So, he's a hard worker, naturally big, huge butt, very active, gets off blocks, former five star recruit, has played a lot and he's young (about to turn 21 years old). I can see why Jeff Ireland would like the guy so much. Here's some more video. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCNKknV5zU8"]YouTube- 1360WCHL.com's Player Profile: Marvin Austin[/ame] First off he's a thoughtful guy. He's not a fast talker. Everything about him just looks like interior line football. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDbP4qtAKc"]YouTube- North Carolina Tar Heels Football Front Seven 2009[/ame] Look at those legs and that butt. His thighs are the size of tree trunks.
Why was he a five star recruit? Simple. In high school, as a junior, he registered 80+ tackles, 12 for loss, 8 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. At the Elite College Combine, he measured in at 6'3" and 294 pounds, and he was clocked a 4.69 in the 40 yard dash. He was considered the best defensive player in the country. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5kztAVOA2c"]YouTube- 2006 Elite College Combine on CSTV with Marv Austin[/ame] Best quote: (on if he's so fast why play DT when he could play fullback?) "I have played a little Fullback in my high school career, but I just have a love for the position of Defensive Tackle with the quickness on the inside, and just learn the position. That's one of the only positions on the field where you get double teamed by two 340 pound men, so on the other side of the ball you're going to have to be ready, think real fast. I know I'm going to have to do that in college if I want to play early." Tom Lemming share's a story about how the next fastest defensive lineman, 60 pounds lighter than Marvin Austin, challenged him to a race on a visit to Maryland, and Austin won. And evidently Arrelious Benn is a buddy of his.
Surfing around found this about Austin and others by Nawrocki V Home Draft Analysis .. Comment | Print | ShareThisMcCoy, Suh top strong DL class.Photos Loading... Oklahoma DT Gerald McCoy and Nebraska DT Ndamukong SuhAbout the Author Nolan Nawrocki nnawrocki@pfwmedia.com Senior editor .Recent posts by Nolan Nawrocki Competitive Rivers spurs Chargers' success Posted Dec. 07, 2009 @ 10:21 a.m. Scout's Notebook: Jets TE Dustin Keller Posted Dec. 09, 2009 @ 11:34 a.m. Florida DE Dunlap's suspension lessens value Posted Dec. 03, 2009 @ 6:21 p.m. Titans QB Young emerging as confident passer Posted Nov. 30, 2009 @ 3:57 p.m. Oklahomans vie for top O-line spot Posted Nov. 27, 2009 @ 1:02 p.m..Related Stories ND's Clausen, Tate declare for draft Posted Dec. 07, 2009 @ 3:11 p.m. Athletic passers Clark, Brown raising profile Posted Sept. 17, 2009 @ 10:52 a.m. Loss to BYU least of Oklahoma's worries Posted Sept. 10, 2009 @ 5:09 p.m. Kindle's 'edge' attractive to NFL scouts Posted Aug. 03, 2009 @ 1:28 p.m. Mixed leaguewide reaction to draft schedule changes Posted July 24, 2009 @ 1:44 p.m. Tags2010 NFL draftPosted Dec. 04, 2009 @ 8:31 a.m. By Nolan Nawrocki This is the sixth article in a series previewing the top NFL prospects by position for the 2010 draft. This year's defensive line class figures to be a strength of the 2010 NFL draft, with two top-five-caliber defensive tackles — Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy and Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh — grading out more highly than any defensive tackles to come out of the college ranks in the last decade, including top-five selections such as Glenn Dorsey, Dewayne Robertson and Gerard Warren. Thanks to a solid group of underclassmen, there should be a number of pass rushers available as well, with three notable juniors all hailing from the Southeast. Note: "e" indicates that the height, weight or 40-time is estimated. DEFENSIVE TACKLES 1. Gerald McCoy, Oklahoma (Jr.) 6-3½e, 300e, 5.0e Quick, active and extremely disruptive, McCoy returned to school for his fourth year despite having top-10 potential a year ago, and his decision to return did not produce the results he had expected, as the 7-5 Sooners failed to qualify for a BCS bowl game after losing QB Sam Bradford early in the season. Nonetheless, McCoy was every bit as disruptive this season as he was a year ago, capable of inverting an offensive line the same way Bears DT Tommie Harris did at OU, penetrating gaps and consistently playing behind the line of scrimmage. McCoy is best when he is on the move and will fit best as a one-gap penetrator in the pros, despite having shown enough strength ragdolling blockers to handle playing in a "30" front. 2. Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska (Sr.) 6-3 7/8, 295, 5.0e Suh grades out more highly than any other senior in this year's draft class, showing outstanding upper-body strength to dominate against lesser competition and overpower interior offensive linemen. He might never be a great pass rusher and needs to learn how to work the edges better, but that is not to say he is not better than most college defensive linemen rushing from the inside. He brings value as a three-down player to the pro game and has shown he can be dominant defending the run on first and second downs with great strength at the point of attack. With the ability to play anywhere along an odd front and having desirable length to play outside, his greatest value could come for a 3-4 defense. 3. Jared Odrick, Penn State (Sr.) 6-4e, 305e, 5.0e Possessing very good size, strength, length and quickness, Odrick might have played his way into the first round with a solid senior season. Critics can contend that much of his production has come against inferior competition, but with very good effort and energy, opposing offensive coordinators knew they needed to account for him, and he regularly saw extra attention. With a tendency to play a bit tall and get moved by the double-team, he could be best slanting and stunting and playing in gaps in the pros. He has a lot of upside to be developed. 4. Marvin Austin, North Carolina (Jr.) 6-2½e, 305e, 5.0e Built like a small tank, Austin is extremely athletic for his size and possesses a unique combination of balance, hand quickness and playing range. He has come on down the stretch for the Tar Heels and made more of an impact on a deep defensive line. However, throughout much of his career, he has been a pampered underachiever playing in a strong rotation and has not been challenged enough. In a more demanding environment after a big-time payday, he could struggle to find the motivation needed to convert his talent to the field. Evaluators will struggle with how often he disappears on tape, and his inconsistent motor could affect his draft value. That said, when he wants to play, there is no question that Austin can.
They could as they have done in the past try and kick him inside. That way Crowder moves over covers Ayodele's spot. Crowder can still take on blockers whilst the more athletic Edds can be relied on to chase down ball carriers etc. It remains to be seen if he can in fact that transition, or even if they want him for any reason. But, the regime does have a history doing this with Ayodele who was an OLB in Jacksonville to start his career and Bobby Carpenter just from the recent past. They may get a player who can do both in Edds allowing him to slide inside in nickel situations. I do think this is the year we get some help for our linebacking corp.
I want a linebacker that is very stout at the point of attack, and has the hips and speed to cover, for that strong side spot. I think that I wouldn't place a high priority on ability to pass rush, necessarily. Edds is about as close as you're going to get to that right now...so I wouldn't really be tempted to kick him inside yet.
Or you could have it where Edds does go inside in terms of formation to allow either Taylor or Porter to rush outside of him. That way he can still do what we need of him, whilst allowing a limited (in terms of coverage) player to do what they do best; rush the passer. Porter was better in coverage, but I wonder how well he does now with his knee issues? That was my point in there as well. He could be used like Carpenter has in Dallas ala coming in on passing downs inside.
