Predictions on our starters leaving Training Camp?

"Aqua4Ever04 wrote:

My only objection is the defensive end spot. I think Phillip Merling will win the job and Randy Starks will continue to do a PHENOMENAL job of providing depth and rotation at the spot. He was great last year in his role.

I think if Sparano could have one wish come true, Merling would win the job outright, I don't believe he will...yet, that leaves Starks and "maybe" McDaniels.

I also noticed they've been trying Big Tony Mcd out at NT.

I'm with Travis, I think Merling has the RE spot to lose at this point. Starks was excellent as that 3rd DE and nickel DL last year. I thought they only used McDaniel inside in the nickel and dime packages, not the base 3-4?

The only other thing I'd say is at this point I'd have a hard time keeping Anthony Armstrong. Unless he explodes in the preseaons, I think we can live with Ginn, Bess, and Cobbs returning punts and kicks and save a roster spot for another player/position.

The only other thing I'd say is at this point I'd have a hard time keeping Anthony Armstrong. Unless he explodes in the preseaons, I think we can live with Ginn, Bess, and Cobbs returning punts and kicks and save a roster spot for another player/position.

IMO, we make a change, if we want to upgrade our special teams unit, the worst unit on our team, we have to make some changes.

To me, there is room for Armstrong "if" he is simply that much better then Bess at punt returning and as good as Ginn on kickoffs.

Our kick return yardage was 29th in the NFL last season, a guess but that is probably close to 40 or 50 yds a game the offense has to earn, every game.

I sure hope Merling gets the starting nod, I like Starks in the role he played last year and Merling was not only a Rookie, but he was coming off that injury, so he should be dramatically stronger and improved this year. I want young blood in there, and there's a reason Merling was supposed to be an early first round pick before the injury. I want to see it.

Otherwise I think you got most of it right, not too sure about PR & KR though, for reasons already stated above.

I like it ComPadre {see what i did with that, lol}

I think Merling and starks will be interchangable from both, the defensive end and dtackle positions.

I'll take my lumps with vontae starting just to get that physicality and talent on the field {dying for it}. Will allen and our veteran secondary will take care of the youngster.

"padre31 wrote:

IMO, we make a change, if we want to upgrade our special teams unit, the worst unit on our team, we have to make some changes.

To me, there is room for Armstrong "if" he is simply that much better then Bess at punt returning and as good as Ginn on kickoffs.

Our kick return yardage was 29th in the NFL last season, a guess but that is probably close to 40 or 50 yds a game the offense has to earn, every game.

I agree, but who do you place him on the roster over? Personally, I'd assume Ginn, Bess, Camarillo if healthy, Turner and Hartline are going to make the final roster.

Do you take him over a 9th LB or a 10th O-lineman based on what we carried last year?

"RoninFin4 wrote:

I agree, but who do you place him on the roster over? Personally, I'd assume Ginn, Bess, Camarillo if healthy, Turner and Hartline are going to make the final roster.

Do you take him over a 9th LB or a 10th O-lineman based on what we carried last year?

Don't forget the inactive list RoninFin4, Rod Wright was buried on the thing all last season, our Staff is not afriad to deactivate someone like Hartline, especially "if" Armstrong can win the kick returning job.

"padre31 wrote:

Don't forget the inactive list RoninFin4, Rod Wright was buried on the thing all last season, our Staff is not afriad to deactivate someone like Hartline, especially "if" Armstrong can win the kick returning job.

I know, but you still have to find a spot for him on the 53 man if you're going to keep someone like Hartline on it as well. I'm on the same page with you though in terms of thinking he could most definitely provide a spark on kick/punt returns.

One thing is for sure and that is there will be some players getting cut who get serious looks by other teams. Unlike past years when most of the players cut by the Dolphins were not good enough to catch on with other teams and were pretty much washouts.

"padre31 wrote:

Wr...Ted Ginn
Wr...Greg C
Te....Tony Fasano
LT...Jake Long
LG...Justin Smiley
C..Jake Grove
RG...Donald Thomas
RT...Vern carey
Qb..Chad Pennington
Rb...Ronnie Brown
Rb...Lou Polite

Defense

LDE...Kendal Langford
NT...Fergie
RDE...Randy Starks
ROLB...Joey Porter
ILB...Channing C
ILB..Akin Ayodele
LOLB..Matt Roth
RCB...Will Allen
LCB...Vontae Davis
SS...G Wilson
FS..Y Bell

Specialists

Pk Dan Carpenter
P Fields
PR...Anthony Armstrong
KR...Anthony Armstrong
Gunner Jason Allen

The returner is probably the shakiest pick, I do think they really like Armstrong and they are trying to get him on the roster, the only way they can do that is if someone else takes B London's place on the ST unit.

Nickel Defense remains to be seen, I suspect they would really like Roth and Wake to be able to play up or down, throw C Anderson and E Walden into that mix as well.

LDE...Cam Wake
NT..Randy Starks
RDE Phil Merling or Roth or Anderson
OLB..JP
ILb...Y Bell
OLB...JT

The coverage Db's are:

Will Allen on the slot
Vontae Davis
Sean Smith
G Wilson
Eric Green

Thoughts?

The offense is probably right but I would predict at least one or two upsets. I think ROG could be a darkhorse like Shawn Murphy. I also think, from what Ive read about him this offseason, Henne has a real shot of unseating Pennington. Camarillo is probably the starter but maybe Turner has a shot

On defense I think Merling will start opposite Langford. I hope someone beats out Ayodele so I'll go with Torbor. Roth/ Taylor who knows? I'm hoping Clemons beats out Wilson

"adamprez2003 wrote:

The offense is probably right but I would predict at least one or two upsets. I think ROG could be a darkhorse like Shawn Murphy. I also think, from what Ive read about him this offseason, Henne has a real shot of unseating Pennington. Camarillo is probably the starter but maybe Turner has a shot

Thomas will be ready for the season, and Turner will be the #4 Wr.

Henne...not a chance Adamp, not coming out of training camp, "if" Penny reverts to the 07 bum ankle Pennington then maybe, but that is also doubtful.

Sporano is not going to play CP in some dumb "battle of Florida" preseason game and see him roll his leg or whatever, that was a Mangini idea..

On defense I think Merling will start opposite Langford. I hope someone beats out Ayodele so I'll go with Torbor. Roth/ Taylor who knows? I'm hoping Clemons beats out Wilson

I think they really "want" Merling to own that job, I'm not sure if he will though, and like Crowder, we don't really have anyone to replace Ayodele.

We'll see about Clemmons, this staff has a quick hook, Crocker was a starter and we cut him midseason when he played poorly, if Wilson plays poorly, then we could see it happen.

And won't Clemmons see time just due to the qtrs coverage scheme?

I agree with most of it but I think Bess starts over Cam and Smith or Green start over Davis.

"rafael wrote:

I agree with most of it but I think Bess starts over Cam and Smith or Green start over Davis.

The thing with Bess is he is such a good slot Wr, and "starting lineup" is a fluid concept, we could open in Atl with 3 wr's.

It would be a bold move starting a Rookie Cb, I'm not sure they've ever done that before Rafael, and to me, v Davis is more polished then Sean Smith is.

Davis played strictly Cb at Il, Smith was a Cb for two years, more like a year and a half.

"padre31 wrote:

The thing with Bess is he is such a good slot Wr, and "starting lineup" is a fluid concept, we could open in Atl with 3 wr's.

It would be a bold move starting a Rookie Cb, I'm not sure they've ever done that before Rafael, and to me, v Davis is more polished then Sean Smith is.

Davis played strictly Cb at Il, Smith was a Cb for two years, more like a year and a half.

Bess was a better #2 last year than Cam. I think Cam ends up as our 4th WR by the end of the year.

So far only Green and Smith have spent any time starting opposite Allen. If they go with a rookie I think the odds favor Smith. I agree that Davis was more polished and even a better athlete, but he wasn't a better CB than Smith. Smith just made fewer mistakes.

"rafael wrote:

Bess was a better #2 last year than Cam. I think Cam ends up as our 4th WR by the end of the year.

Could be, I really do believe by December Turner will be a starter, but Cam will be ready in September, and Cam had better numbers then Bess, granted he played longer but still, why take a great slot Wr and make him a #2 Wr?

Were would be the advantage?

So far only Green and Smith have spent any time starting opposite Allen. If they go with a rookie I think the odds favor Smith. I agree that Davis was more polished and even a better athlete, but he wasn't a better CB than Smith. Smith just made fewer mistakes.

It was OTA's and apparently Smith is being taught both the boundary Corner position and playing the Slot Corner position, Davis is only a boundary Corner, his learning curve is not as steep and that is a part of the reason "why" Vontae could start on Day 1.

I like S Smith, I don't think he'll be a starter in September, and the prediction is for a traditional 11 starters, that will go out the window on the first 3rd and 15 we face, Smith will see the field in Atlanta.

You know whats interesting from watchin turner play ball, he has a lot of slot potential as well, i know hes so big, but damn if he doesnt play like a slot guy. Quick for a big guy, plays really well in traffic,good hands, and plays smaller then his stature. good curve to his upper body, can crouch like a smaller guy.

"padre31 wrote:

Thomas will be ready for the season, and Turner will be the #4 Wr.

Henne...not a chance Adamp, not coming out of training camp, "if" Penny reverts to the 07 bum ankle Pennington then maybe, but that is also doubtful.

Sporano is not going to play CP me dumb "battle of Florida" preseason game and see him roll his leg or whatever, that was a Mangini idea..

Thomas if healthy is definitely the favorite. I'm not sure he will be plus I think Murphy might be improved and I thought he had more potential originally. Its mere speculation on my part till I see them play.

As for Henne, I dont think its as farfetched as you may think. He would have to own the preseason but he just brings so much more physically that if he can show that his coverage recognition has improved and his decision making doesnt make Parcells nervous I could see it. Penny is definitely the favorite but I kinda like the longshots sometimes

I think they really "want" Merling to own that job, I'm not sure if he will though, and like Crowder, we don't really have anyone to replace Ayodele.

We'll see about Clemmons, this staff has a quick hook, Crocker was a starter and we cut him midseason when he played poorly, if Wilson plays poorly, then we could see it happen.

And won't Clemmons see time just due to the qtrs coverage scheme

I think Merling is going to breakout bigtime this year. He was more of a 4-3 DE coming out of college so he needed some time to adjust and he still played well last year. I thought he was better suited for OLB but he playerd well enough last year that I think he'll be fine.

I just think someone on our team has to be better than Ayodele. I'll go with Torbor because he was much better on the Giants than he was last year on Miami. Probably not use to 3-4 scheme. One year in system and he should do better. I hope.

Wilson is good, I just really like Clemons. The likelihood is it will be Gibril but I'll gamble a bit here and take the rook.

I like Vontae opposite Alllen too

"padre31 wrote:

Could be, I really do believe by December Turner will be a starter, but Cam will be ready in September, and Cam had better numbers then Bess, granted he played longer but still, why take a great slot Wr and make him a #2 Wr?

Were would be the advantage?

Bess had better numbers on a per game basis. And the advantage is that you get the better player on the field more often.

"padre31 wrote:

It was OTA's and apparently Smith is being taught both the boundary Corner position and playing the Slot Corner position, Davis is only a boundary Corner, his learning curve is not as steep and that is a part of the reason "why" Vontae could start on Day 1.

I like S Smith, I don't think he'll be a starter in September, and the prediction is for a traditional 11 starters, that will go out the window on the first 3rd and 15 we face, Smith will see the field in Atlanta.

They'll want Smith as the boundary player b/c they'll want his size against the bigger WRs. Davis is better suited than Smith to fill the slot position. And Davis' may have more CB experience, but Davis made more boneheaded plays than Smith right now.

Friend Padre31, looks like you've listed the first team & who you've got to beat to be on it
but there are DarkHorses in this race:

LG: Frye & Berger
RB: Williams will exceed expectation in 2009
WR: Bess, Turner, Armstrong & Marion are in the mix for sure
ILB: may see a position modification w/ either Matt Ross, Terrius George or Erik Waldon moved to the inside displacing Ayodele
LCB: Green, Smith & Allen are possibilities to starting the position
DE's: Wright, Dotson & Starks
NT: Soliai may very well step up to second Fergie
KR: GinnJr
PR: Bess/Armstrong
Gunner: Cameron Wake/Jason Allen

Competition is the Elixir of Success! Still have a Training Camp & Pre-Season ahead of us to complete.

I think that is a pretty good call though I agree there could be an upset or two... I would LOVE to see one of the backup ILB's come on strong in the preseason. Also, I thought it was interesting that Ferg said in his interview yesterday that Soliai was doing GREAT and would take his job if he didn't work hard... That is a promising tidbit!

DEPTH is going to be our biggest asset this year! I've NEVER seen this quality of depth on this team and I'm LOVING IT!

think you will see as many wrinkles in this 2009 defense as we did with the WildCat in 2008:

1) look for a variation of the 4-3 to return & even a 4-4-3 (Wilson as a Spy and or Taylor roving the line) depending on match-ups & down.
2) watch for OLB's moving to DE on some passing downs
3) there will be a number of adaptations made to get Taylor, Porter & Wake on the field in the Triad of Terror
4) watch for a cross over from OLB to ILB @Ayodele's position by George, Roth or Walden.

they will figure out how to tweak the defense while using the 3-4 base as the conventional system of play.
however,
the many outstanding LB's on the roster demand creativity & we have the coaching staff to provide it.:up:

Don't see much to debate Padre ... as the below are the only positions up for grabs --

I just don't see any way that Jason Allen remains on the team ... would also like to see one of our bevy of OLB candidates move inside to challenge Ayodele

I believe CK called the potential move of McDaniels to NT when we signed him ...

The CB postion is Green's to lose ... and lose it i believe he will -- but unless he really falls on his face -- or Davis or Smith really shine in TC ... he will probably start off the season for the 1st couple games.

Clemons will push pretty hard at S as well ... but don't see him starting until towards mid season the earliest -- and if Wilson and Bell can keep him on the bench ... even better.

The Bess / Cam situation is the most interesting as they are close to bringing the same skill set ...

You can be pretty confident on the 3 main DEs ... and i don't see it as a loss - no matter which ones 'start' ...

Offense

Wr...Greg C -- Bess
RG...Donald Thomas -- Frye/Murphy

Defense

LDE...Kendal Langford -- Starks/Merling
RDE...Randy Starks -- Langford/Merling
ILB..Akin Ayodele -- Torbor/?????
LOLB..Matt Roth -- JT/Wake
LCB...Vontae Davis -- Green/Smith

Specialists

PR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
KR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
Gunner ????

DE - Probably Starks / Merling / McDaniels / Langford are going to be interchangable. Aside from Langford, tough to pick one over the other.

CB - They'll go with experience and Eric Green over Davis. It wouldn't surprise me if Smith gets an opportunity to start before Davis does.

KR / PR - Bess and Cobbs

I agree with everything except I think Bess with Armstrong will return kicks and I think Phillip Merling with that the other DE spot. Other than those, I think we have some formidable starters for 2009.