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Predictions on our starters leaving Training Camp?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jun 14, 2009.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Wr...Ted Ginn
    Wr...Greg C
    Te....Tony Fasano
    LT...Jake Long
    LG...Justin Smiley
    C..Jake Grove
    RG...Donald Thomas
    RT...Vern carey
    Qb..Chad Pennington
    Rb...Ronnie Brown
    Rb...Lou Polite

    Defense

    LDE...Kendal Langford
    NT...Fergie
    RDE...Randy Starks
    ROLB...Joey Porter
    ILB...Channing C
    ILB..Akin Ayodele
    LOLB..Matt Roth
    RCB...Will Allen
    LCB...Vontae Davis
    SS...G Wilson
    FS..Y Bell

    Specialists

    Pk Dan Carpenter
    P Fields
    PR...Anthony Armstrong
    KR...Anthony Armstrong
    Gunner Jason Allen

    The returner is probably the shakiest pick, I do think they really like Armstrong and they are trying to get him on the roster, the only way they can do that is if someone else takes B London's place on the ST unit.

    Nickel Defense remains to be seen, I suspect they would really like Roth and Wake to be able to play up or down, throw C Anderson and E Walden into that mix as well.

    LDE...Cam Wake
    NT..Randy Starks
    RDE Phil Merling or Roth or Anderson
    OLB..JP
    ILb...Y Bell
    OLB...JT

    The coverage Db's are:

    Will Allen on the slot
    Vontae Davis
    Sean Smith
    G Wilson
    Eric Green

    Thoughts?
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think if Sparano could have one wish come true, Merling would win the job outright, I don't believe he will...yet, that leaves Starks and "maybe" McDaniels.

    I also noticed they've been trying Big Tony Mcd out at NT.
     
  3. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm with Travis, I think Merling has the RE spot to lose at this point. Starks was excellent as that 3rd DE and nickel DL last year. I thought they only used McDaniel inside in the nickel and dime packages, not the base 3-4?

    The only other thing I'd say is at this point I'd have a hard time keeping Anthony Armstrong. Unless he explodes in the preseaons, I think we can live with Ginn, Bess, and Cobbs returning punts and kicks and save a roster spot for another player/position.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    IMO, we make a change, if we want to upgrade our special teams unit, the worst unit on our team, we have to make some changes.

    To me, there is room for Armstrong "if" he is simply that much better then Bess at punt returning and as good as Ginn on kickoffs.

    Our kick return yardage was 29th in the NFL last season, a guess but that is probably close to 40 or 50 yds a game the offense has to earn, every game.
     
  5. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    I sure hope Merling gets the starting nod, I like Starks in the role he played last year and Merling was not only a Rookie, but he was coming off that injury, so he should be dramatically stronger and improved this year. I want young blood in there, and there's a reason Merling was supposed to be an early first round pick before the injury. I want to see it.

    Otherwise I think you got most of it right, not too sure about PR & KR though, for reasons already stated above.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like it ComPadre {see what i did with that, lol}

    I think Merling and starks will be interchangable from both, the defensive end and dtackle positions.

    I'll take my lumps with vontae starting just to get that physicality and talent on the field {dying for it}. Will allen and our veteran secondary will take care of the youngster.
     
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  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, but who do you place him on the roster over? Personally, I'd assume Ginn, Bess, Camarillo if healthy, Turner and Hartline are going to make the final roster.

    Do you take him over a 9th LB or a 10th O-lineman based on what we carried last year?
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Don't forget the inactive list RoninFin4, Rod Wright was buried on the thing all last season, our Staff is not afriad to deactivate someone like Hartline, especially "if" Armstrong can win the kick returning job.
     
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  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know, but you still have to find a spot for him on the 53 man if you're going to keep someone like Hartline on it as well. I'm on the same page with you though in terms of thinking he could most definitely provide a spark on kick/punt returns.
     
  10. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    One thing is for sure and that is there will be some players getting cut who get serious looks by other teams. Unlike past years when most of the players cut by the Dolphins were not good enough to catch on with other teams and were pretty much washouts.
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The offense is probably right but I would predict at least one or two upsets. I think ROG could be a darkhorse like Shawn Murphy. I also think, from what Ive read about him this offseason, Henne has a real shot of unseating Pennington. Camarillo is probably the starter but maybe Turner has a shot

    On defense I think Merling will start opposite Langford. I hope someone beats out Ayodele so I'll go with Torbor. Roth/ Taylor who knows? I'm hoping Clemons beats out Wilson
     
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  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thomas will be ready for the season, and Turner will be the #4 Wr.

    Henne...not a chance Adamp, not coming out of training camp, "if" Penny reverts to the 07 bum ankle Pennington then maybe, but that is also doubtful.

    Sporano is not going to play CP in some dumb "battle of Florida" preseason game and see him roll his leg or whatever, that was a Mangini idea..


    I think they really "want" Merling to own that job, I'm not sure if he will though, and like Crowder, we don't really have anyone to replace Ayodele.

    We'll see about Clemmons, this staff has a quick hook, Crocker was a starter and we cut him midseason when he played poorly, if Wilson plays poorly, then we could see it happen.

    And won't Clemmons see time just due to the qtrs coverage scheme?
     
  13. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with most of it but I think Bess starts over Cam and Smith or Green start over Davis.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The thing with Bess is he is such a good slot Wr, and "starting lineup" is a fluid concept, we could open in Atl with 3 wr's.

    It would be a bold move starting a Rookie Cb, I'm not sure they've ever done that before Rafael, and to me, v Davis is more polished then Sean Smith is.

    Davis played strictly Cb at Il, Smith was a Cb for two years, more like a year and a half.
     
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  15. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bess was a better #2 last year than Cam. I think Cam ends up as our 4th WR by the end of the year.

    So far only Green and Smith have spent any time starting opposite Allen. If they go with a rookie I think the odds favor Smith. I agree that Davis was more polished and even a better athlete, but he wasn't a better CB than Smith. Smith just made fewer mistakes.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Could be, I really do believe by December Turner will be a starter, but Cam will be ready in September, and Cam had better numbers then Bess, granted he played longer but still, why take a great slot Wr and make him a #2 Wr?

    Were would be the advantage?



    It was OTA's and apparently Smith is being taught both the boundary Corner position and playing the Slot Corner position, Davis is only a boundary Corner, his learning curve is not as steep and that is a part of the reason "why" Vontae could start on Day 1.

    I like S Smith, I don't think he'll be a starter in September, and the prediction is for a traditional 11 starters, that will go out the window on the first 3rd and 15 we face, Smith will see the field in Atlanta.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You know whats interesting from watchin turner play ball, he has a lot of slot potential as well, i know hes so big, but damn if he doesnt play like a slot guy. Quick for a big guy, plays really well in traffic,good hands, and plays smaller then his stature. good curve to his upper body, can crouch like a smaller guy.
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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  19. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bess had better numbers on a per game basis. And the advantage is that you get the better player on the field more often.


    They'll want Smith as the boundary player b/c they'll want his size against the bigger WRs. Davis is better suited than Smith to fill the slot position. And Davis' may have more CB experience, but Davis made more boneheaded plays than Smith right now.
     
  20. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend Padre31, looks like you've listed the first team & who you've got to beat to be on it
    but there are DarkHorses in this race:


    LG: Frye & Berger
    RB: Williams will exceed expectation in 2009
    WR: Bess, Turner, Armstrong & Marion are in the mix for sure
    ILB: may see a position modification w/ either Matt Ross, Terrius George or Erik Waldon moved to the inside displacing Ayodele
    LCB: Green, Smith & Allen are possibilities to starting the position
    DE's: Wright, Dotson & Starks
    NT: Soliai may very well step up to second Fergie
    KR: GinnJr
    PR: Bess/Armstrong

    Gunner: Cameron Wake/Jason Allen

    Competition is the Elixir of Success! Still have a Training Camp & Pre-Season ahead of us to complete.
     
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  21. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I think that is a pretty good call though I agree there could be an upset or two... I would LOVE to see one of the backup ILB's come on strong in the preseason. Also, I thought it was interesting that Ferg said in his interview yesterday that Soliai was doing GREAT and would take his job if he didn't work hard... That is a promising tidbit!

    DEPTH is going to be our biggest asset this year! I've NEVER seen this quality of depth on this team and I'm LOVING IT!
     
  22. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    think you will see as many wrinkles in this 2009 defense as we did with the WildCat in 2008:

    1) look for a variation of the 4-3 to return & even a 4-4-3 (Wilson as a Spy and or Taylor roving the line) depending on match-ups & down.
    2) watch for OLB's moving to DE on some passing downs
    3) there will be a number of adaptations made to get Taylor, Porter & Wake on the field in the Triad of Terror
    4) watch for a cross over from OLB to ILB @Ayodele's position by George, Roth or Walden.


    they will figure out how to tweak the defense while using the 3-4 base as the conventional system of play.
    however,
    the many outstanding LB's on the roster demand creativity & we have the coaching staff to provide it.:up:
     
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  23. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Don't see much to debate Padre ... as the below are the only positions up for grabs --

    I just don't see any way that Jason Allen remains on the team ... would also like to see one of our bevy of OLB candidates move inside to challenge Ayodele

    I believe CK called the potential move of McDaniels to NT when we signed him ...

    The CB postion is Green's to lose ... and lose it i believe he will -- but unless he really falls on his face -- or Davis or Smith really shine in TC ... he will probably start off the season for the 1st couple games.

    Clemons will push pretty hard at S as well ... but don't see him starting until towards mid season the earliest -- and if Wilson and Bell can keep him on the bench ... even better.

    The Bess / Cam situation is the most interesting as they are close to bringing the same skill set ...

    You can be pretty confident on the 3 main DEs ... and i don't see it as a loss - no matter which ones 'start' ...

    Offense

    Wr...Greg C -- Bess
    RG...Donald Thomas -- Frye/Murphy

    Defense

    LDE...Kendal Langford -- Starks/Merling
    RDE...Randy Starks -- Langford/Merling
    ILB..Akin Ayodele -- Torbor/?????
    LOLB..Matt Roth -- JT/Wake
    LCB...Vontae Davis -- Green/Smith

    Specialists

    PR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
    KR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
    Gunner ????
     
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  24. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    DE - Probably Starks / Merling / McDaniels / Langford are going to be interchangable. Aside from Langford, tough to pick one over the other.

    CB - They'll go with experience and Eric Green over Davis. It wouldn't surprise me if Smith gets an opportunity to start before Davis does.

    KR / PR - Bess and Cobbs
     
  25. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything except I think Bess with Armstrong will return kicks and I think Phillip Merling with that the other DE spot. Other than those, I think we have some formidable starters for 2009.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To me, to take the projections to a intermediate step:

    Players who have to show something when the pads come on:

    1. Cam Wake, JT is virtually penciled in, Wake has to compete with the rest of the OLB corps for his "place"
    2. Greg Camarillo, knee rehab with a bunch of young Wr on the roster.
    3. Shawn Murphy, it's Yr 2, now is his time.
    4. Anthony Armstrong..can he retain his momentum?
    5. Garner, Gardner, someone is going to be the swing tackle.
    6. Jason Allen, Nate Jones, C Bryant, R Culver, C Clemons, the secondary will be shuffled behind the starters, if they have anything then August will count for alot.
    7. P White, his role this season is directly related to how well he can throw the football when the Training Camp bullets are flying at him.
    8. Paul Soliai Rod Wright, two holdovers have to earn their place this season.
     
  27. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    Pretty good prediction Padre.
     
  28. I personally don't think there is room on the roster for Anderson. We have too many OLBs with JT and Wake. Walden makes the team because of his teams ability but there isn't room for both Walden and Anderson. One has to go and Walden is more useful on teams.
    I also think the surprise of camp will be Tony Mcdaniel winning DE spot opposite Langford. He has a chance to be a really special player. Also this will give us a chance to bring in three pass rushing specialist on 3rd and long. Starks played the DT last year some on passing situations and Merling is a better pass rusher than run stuffer. Then you could let JT play the RDE which is his normal position and have Wake and Porter rush off the edge. JT and Wake could switch back and forth because they have both played both positions. Which ever one played which ever spot the best could play it, or they could decide based on match ups.

    The biggest improvement I see this year is being able to get off the field on 3rd down. And that is because of a better more flexible pass rush. Wake will be a monster, I'm telling you, he is a freak of nature.
     
  29. dukane5

    dukane5 New Member

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    I agree PHINANALYST....Green and Bess will start. I don't think Cam will be 100% and Pennington definitely was comfortable with Bess.
    Also agree there is no room For J.Allen. He has had plenty of time to prove his worth as a 1st rounder and failed. I see our #5 or #6 WR as the gunner. Best guess now is Hartline, as I think this is the only way he wins a roster spot.
    Not sure Thomas will be healthy for week 1, so an 0-line spot will be there to be won.
    The depth is definitely something to enjoy!!!
     
  30. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09


    Offense:
    WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
    WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
    TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
    LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
    LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
    C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
    RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
    RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garne®r
    QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), CHad Henne
    RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
    FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)

    Defense:


    LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrigue Wright, Tony McDonald
    NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Solai, Louis Ellis®
    RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
    WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
    ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
    ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
    SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
    RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
    LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
    SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
    FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver

    Specialists:

    Kicker… Dan Carpenter
    PNT …Brandon Fields
    PR...Bess/ Armstrong
    KR...GinnJr.
    Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
    Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor




    Nickel Defense:

    LDE...Cam Wake
    LDT…Fergie
    RDT…the BigPig Soliai
    RDE ...Matt Roth

    OLB…Jason Taylor
    ILb...Joey Porter

    CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
    NB…Jason Allen
    S…Gibril Wilson
    S…Yeremiah Bell
    CB…Will Allen[/SIZE]
     
  31. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09

    Offense:
    WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
    WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
    TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
    LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
    LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
    C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
    RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
    RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garne®r
    QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), CHad Henne
    RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
    FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)

    Defense:

    LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrigue Wright, Tony McDonald
    NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Solai, Louis Ellis®
    RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
    WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
    ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
    ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
    SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
    RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
    LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
    SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
    FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver

    Specialists:
    Kicker… Dan Carpenter
    PNT …Brandon Fields
    PR...Bess/ Armstrong
    KR...GinnJr.
    Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
    Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor




    Nickel Defense:
    LDE...Cam Wake
    LDT…Fergie
    RDT…the BigPig
    RDE ...Matt Roth

    OLB…Jason Taylor
    ILb...Joey Porter

    CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
    NB…Jason Allen
    S…Gibril Wilson
    S…Yeremiah Bell
    CB…Will Allen[/SIZE]
     
  32. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09

    (to get the roster to 53 means minus seven of the players listed, this will be difficult)

    Offense:
    WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
    WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
    TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
    LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
    LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
    C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
    RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
    RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garner
    QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), Chad Henne
    RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
    FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)

    Defense:

    LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrique Wright, Tony McDonald
    NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Soliai, Louis Ellis®
    RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
    WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
    ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
    ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
    SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
    RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
    LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
    SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
    FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver

    Specialists:
    Kicker… Dan Carpenter
    PNT …Brandon Fields
    PR...Bess/ Armstrong
    KR...GinnJr.
    Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
    Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor

    Nickel Defense:
    LDE...Cam Wake
    LDT…Fergie
    RDT…the BigPig
    RDE ...Matt Roth

    OLB…Jason Taylor
    ILb...Joey Porter

    CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
    NB…Jason Allen
    S…Gibril Wilson
    S…Yeremiah Bell
    CB…Will Allen[/SIZE]

    only an opinion, an educated, however biased guess, welcome to comment, add subject, even try your luck @ instead of 60 break it down to 53 :yes:
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's my early guess at 53.

    Offense:
    WR... GinnJr., Turner®, Armstrong,
    WR...D.Bess, Camarillo, Hartline®
    TE....Tony Fasano, Martin, E.Wilford
    LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
    LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
    C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
    RG...Donald Thomas
    RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garner
    QB..Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, Patrick White
    RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
    FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)

    Defense:
    LDE...Kendal Langford, Tony McDonald
    NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul Soliai, Louis Ellis®
    RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
    WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake
    ILB...Channing Crowder, Reggie Torbor
    ILB..Akin Ayodele
    SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Eric Walden®
    RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®
    LCB...Sean Smith®, Eric Green, Jason Allen
    SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
    FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver

    Specialists:
    Kicker… Dan Carpenter
    PNT …Brandon Fields
    PR...Bess/ Armstrong
    KR...GinnJr.
    Long Snapper…Jason Taylor

    I'm a bit concerned with the interior OL health. If Donald Thomas is still nicked come the end of TC then I might overweight the offense more at the expense of the DL, probably McDonald.
     
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  34. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    I agree with this.

    Bess > Camarillo

    Smith > Davis

    Just IMO.
     
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Anderson also made some great ST plays last season, and he knows the defense, IMO he stays, unless someone really steps up on Special Teams.

    Tony McD is a interesting player, no question about that, but that position is a coin toss, right now there is not much seperating Merling from Starks from McD.



    It was clear that Joey P was spent by the end of the season, adding JT and Wake and Wilson and the Rook Cb's are meant to help get us off the field on 3rd down, it remains to be seen if they can do the job or not.

    Dc Pasqualoni will be burning the midnight oil working on our scheme, the AFC East is sort of like an Arms Race, we get better defensive players, everyone else acquires more potent offensive weapons or Brady gets healthy.

    Should be fun though, and it's fairly clear why we did not draft a OLB, Wake, Walden, Anderson, JT, Moses, George, there are only so many snaps and reps to go around.
     
  36. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Tampa Area
    getting real tough to keep the board alive in thru the doldrums
    going to be a very long 40 days until things begin to pick up again
     
  37. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    28,404
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    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    You're kind of assuming that it's just the returners fault that our ST return units were ranked so low. I personally blame the blocking. Having armstrong return punts won't help with the blocking
     

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