Wr...Ted Ginn
Wr...Greg C
Te....Tony Fasano
LT...Jake Long
LG...Justin Smiley
C..Jake Grove
RG...Donald Thomas
RT...Vern carey
Qb..Chad Pennington
Rb...Ronnie Brown
Rb...Lou Polite
Defense
LDE...Kendal Langford
NT...Fergie
RDE...Randy Starks
ROLB...Joey Porter
ILB...Channing C
ILB..Akin Ayodele
LOLB..Matt Roth
RCB...Will Allen
LCB...Vontae Davis
SS...G Wilson
FS..Y Bell
Specialists
Pk Dan Carpenter
P Fields
PR...Anthony Armstrong
KR...Anthony Armstrong
Gunner Jason Allen
The returner is probably the shakiest pick, I do think they really like Armstrong and they are trying to get him on the roster, the only way they can do that is if someone else takes B London's place on the ST unit.
Nickel Defense remains to be seen, I suspect they would really like Roth and Wake to be able to play up or down, throw C Anderson and E Walden into that mix as well.
LDE...Cam Wake
NT..Randy Starks
RDE Phil Merling or Roth or Anderson
OLB..JP
ILb...Y Bell
OLB...JT
The coverage Db's are:
Will Allen on the slot
Vontae Davis
Sean Smith
G Wilson
Eric Green
Thoughts?
Tags:
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TiP54, unluckyluciano, HULKFish and 4 others like this.
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I think if Sparano could have one wish come true, Merling would win the job outright, I don't believe he will...yet, that leaves Starks and "maybe" McDaniels.
I also noticed they've been trying Big Tony Mcd out at NT. -
I'm with Travis, I think Merling has the RE spot to lose at this point. Starks was excellent as that 3rd DE and nickel DL last year. I thought they only used McDaniel inside in the nickel and dime packages, not the base 3-4?
The only other thing I'd say is at this point I'd have a hard time keeping Anthony Armstrong. Unless he explodes in the preseaons, I think we can live with Ginn, Bess, and Cobbs returning punts and kicks and save a roster spot for another player/position. -
IMO, we make a change, if we want to upgrade our special teams unit, the worst unit on our team, we have to make some changes.
To me, there is room for Armstrong "if" he is simply that much better then Bess at punt returning and as good as Ginn on kickoffs.
Our kick return yardage was 29th in the NFL last season, a guess but that is probably close to 40 or 50 yds a game the offense has to earn, every game. -
I sure hope Merling gets the starting nod, I like Starks in the role he played last year and Merling was not only a Rookie, but he was coming off that injury, so he should be dramatically stronger and improved this year. I want young blood in there, and there's a reason Merling was supposed to be an early first round pick before the injury. I want to see it.
Otherwise I think you got most of it right, not too sure about PR & KR though, for reasons already stated above.Larryfinfan likes this. -
I like it ComPadre {see what i did with that, lol}
I think Merling and starks will be interchangable from both, the defensive end and dtackle positions.
I'll take my lumps with vontae starting just to get that physicality and talent on the field {dying for it}. Will allen and our veteran secondary will take care of the youngster.padre31 likes this. -
I agree, but who do you place him on the roster over? Personally, I'd assume Ginn, Bess, Camarillo if healthy, Turner and Hartline are going to make the final roster.
Do you take him over a 9th LB or a 10th O-lineman based on what we carried last year?padre31 likes this. -
Don't forget the inactive list RoninFin4, Rod Wright was buried on the thing all last season, our Staff is not afriad to deactivate someone like Hartline, especially "if" Armstrong can win the kick returning job.RoninFin4 likes this.
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I know, but you still have to find a spot for him on the 53 man if you're going to keep someone like Hartline on it as well. I'm on the same page with you though in terms of thinking he could most definitely provide a spark on kick/punt returns.
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One thing is for sure and that is there will be some players getting cut who get serious looks by other teams. Unlike past years when most of the players cut by the Dolphins were not good enough to catch on with other teams and were pretty much washouts.
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The offense is probably right but I would predict at least one or two upsets. I think ROG could be a darkhorse like Shawn Murphy. I also think, from what Ive read about him this offseason, Henne has a real shot of unseating Pennington. Camarillo is probably the starter but maybe Turner has a shot
On defense I think Merling will start opposite Langford. I hope someone beats out Ayodele so I'll go with Torbor. Roth/ Taylor who knows? I'm hoping Clemons beats out Wilsonpadre31 likes this. -
Thomas will be ready for the season, and Turner will be the #4 Wr.
Henne...not a chance Adamp, not coming out of training camp, "if" Penny reverts to the 07 bum ankle Pennington then maybe, but that is also doubtful.
Sporano is not going to play CP in some dumb "battle of Florida" preseason game and see him roll his leg or whatever, that was a Mangini idea..
I think they really "want" Merling to own that job, I'm not sure if he will though, and like Crowder, we don't really have anyone to replace Ayodele.
We'll see about Clemmons, this staff has a quick hook, Crocker was a starter and we cut him midseason when he played poorly, if Wilson plays poorly, then we could see it happen.
And won't Clemmons see time just due to the qtrs coverage scheme? -
The thing with Bess is he is such a good slot Wr, and "starting lineup" is a fluid concept, we could open in Atl with 3 wr's.
It would be a bold move starting a Rookie Cb, I'm not sure they've ever done that before Rafael, and to me, v Davis is more polished then Sean Smith is.
Davis played strictly Cb at Il, Smith was a Cb for two years, more like a year and a half.HULKFish likes this. -
Bess was a better #2 last year than Cam. I think Cam ends up as our 4th WR by the end of the year.
So far only Green and Smith have spent any time starting opposite Allen. If they go with a rookie I think the odds favor Smith. I agree that Davis was more polished and even a better athlete, but he wasn't a better CB than Smith. Smith just made fewer mistakes. -
Could be, I really do believe by December Turner will be a starter, but Cam will be ready in September, and Cam had better numbers then Bess, granted he played longer but still, why take a great slot Wr and make him a #2 Wr?
Were would be the advantage?
It was OTA's and apparently Smith is being taught both the boundary Corner position and playing the Slot Corner position, Davis is only a boundary Corner, his learning curve is not as steep and that is a part of the reason "why" Vontae could start on Day 1.
I like S Smith, I don't think he'll be a starter in September, and the prediction is for a traditional 11 starters, that will go out the window on the first 3rd and 15 we face, Smith will see the field in Atlanta. -
You know whats interesting from watchin turner play ball, he has a lot of slot potential as well, i know hes so big, but damn if he doesnt play like a slot guy. Quick for a big guy, plays really well in traffic,good hands, and plays smaller then his stature. good curve to his upper body, can crouch like a smaller guy.
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Bess had better numbers on a per game basis. And the advantage is that you get the better player on the field more often.
They'll want Smith as the boundary player b/c they'll want his size against the bigger WRs. Davis is better suited than Smith to fill the slot position. And Davis' may have more CB experience, but Davis made more boneheaded plays than Smith right now. -
Friend Padre31, looks like you've listed the first team & who you've got to beat to be on it
but there are DarkHorses in this race:
LG: Frye & Berger
RB: Williams will exceed expectation in 2009
WR: Bess, Turner, Armstrong & Marion are in the mix for sure
ILB: may see a position modification w/ either Matt Ross, Terrius George or Erik Waldon moved to the inside displacing Ayodele
LCB: Green, Smith & Allen are possibilities to starting the position
DE's: Wright, Dotson & Starks
NT: Soliai may very well step up to second Fergie
KR: GinnJr
PR: Bess/Armstrong
Gunner: Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
Competition is the Elixir of Success! Still have a Training Camp & Pre-Season ahead of us to complete.padre31 likes this. -
I think that is a pretty good call though I agree there could be an upset or two... I would LOVE to see one of the backup ILB's come on strong in the preseason. Also, I thought it was interesting that Ferg said in his interview yesterday that Soliai was doing GREAT and would take his job if he didn't work hard... That is a promising tidbit!
DEPTH is going to be our biggest asset this year! I've NEVER seen this quality of depth on this team and I'm LOVING IT! -
think you will see as many wrinkles in this 2009 defense as we did with the WildCat in 2008:
1) look for a variation of the 4-3 to return & even a 4-4-3 (Wilson as a Spy and or Taylor roving the line) depending on match-ups & down.
2) watch for OLB's moving to DE on some passing downs
3) there will be a number of adaptations made to get Taylor, Porter & Wake on the field in the Triad of Terror
4) watch for a cross over from OLB to ILB @Ayodele's position by George, Roth or Walden.
they will figure out how to tweak the defense while using the 3-4 base as the conventional system of play.
however,
the many outstanding LB's on the roster demand creativity & we have the coaching staff to provide it.:up: -
Don't see much to debate Padre ... as the below are the only positions up for grabs --
I just don't see any way that Jason Allen remains on the team ... would also like to see one of our bevy of OLB candidates move inside to challenge Ayodele
I believe CK called the potential move of McDaniels to NT when we signed him ...
The CB postion is Green's to lose ... and lose it i believe he will -- but unless he really falls on his face -- or Davis or Smith really shine in TC ... he will probably start off the season for the 1st couple games.
Clemons will push pretty hard at S as well ... but don't see him starting until towards mid season the earliest -- and if Wilson and Bell can keep him on the bench ... even better.
The Bess / Cam situation is the most interesting as they are close to bringing the same skill set ...
You can be pretty confident on the 3 main DEs ... and i don't see it as a loss - no matter which ones 'start' ...
Offense
Wr...Greg C -- Bess
RG...Donald Thomas -- Frye/Murphy
Defense
LDE...Kendal Langford -- Starks/Merling
RDE...Randy Starks -- Langford/Merling
ILB..Akin Ayodele -- Torbor/?????
LOLB..Matt Roth -- JT/Wake
LCB...Vontae Davis -- Green/Smith
Specialists
PR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
KR...Anthony Armstrong -- Ginn/Cam
Gunner ????dukane5 likes this. -
DE - Probably Starks / Merling / McDaniels / Langford are going to be interchangable. Aside from Langford, tough to pick one over the other.
CB - They'll go with experience and Eric Green over Davis. It wouldn't surprise me if Smith gets an opportunity to start before Davis does.
KR / PR - Bess and Cobbs -
I agree with everything except I think Bess with Armstrong will return kicks and I think Phillip Merling with that the other DE spot. Other than those, I think we have some formidable starters for 2009.
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To me, to take the projections to a intermediate step:
Players who have to show something when the pads come on:
1. Cam Wake, JT is virtually penciled in, Wake has to compete with the rest of the OLB corps for his "place"
2. Greg Camarillo, knee rehab with a bunch of young Wr on the roster.
3. Shawn Murphy, it's Yr 2, now is his time.
4. Anthony Armstrong..can he retain his momentum?
5. Garner, Gardner, someone is going to be the swing tackle.
6. Jason Allen, Nate Jones, C Bryant, R Culver, C Clemons, the secondary will be shuffled behind the starters, if they have anything then August will count for alot.
7. P White, his role this season is directly related to how well he can throw the football when the Training Camp bullets are flying at him.
8. Paul Soliai Rod Wright, two holdovers have to earn their place this season. -
Pretty good prediction Padre.
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I personally don't think there is room on the roster for Anderson. We have too many OLBs with JT and Wake. Walden makes the team because of his teams ability but there isn't room for both Walden and Anderson. One has to go and Walden is more useful on teams.
I also think the surprise of camp will be Tony Mcdaniel winning DE spot opposite Langford. He has a chance to be a really special player. Also this will give us a chance to bring in three pass rushing specialist on 3rd and long. Starks played the DT last year some on passing situations and Merling is a better pass rusher than run stuffer. Then you could let JT play the RDE which is his normal position and have Wake and Porter rush off the edge. JT and Wake could switch back and forth because they have both played both positions. Which ever one played which ever spot the best could play it, or they could decide based on match ups.
The biggest improvement I see this year is being able to get off the field on 3rd down. And that is because of a better more flexible pass rush. Wake will be a monster, I'm telling you, he is a freak of nature. -
I agree PHINANALYST....Green and Bess will start. I don't think Cam will be 100% and Pennington definitely was comfortable with Bess.
Also agree there is no room For J.Allen. He has had plenty of time to prove his worth as a 1st rounder and failed. I see our #5 or #6 WR as the gunner. Best guess now is Hartline, as I think this is the only way he wins a roster spot.
Not sure Thomas will be healthy for week 1, so an 0-line spot will be there to be won.
The depth is definitely something to enjoy!!! -
Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09
Offense:
WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garne®r
QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), CHad Henne
RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)
Defense:
LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrigue Wright, Tony McDonald
NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Solai, Louis Ellis®
RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver
Specialists:
Kicker… Dan Carpenter
PNT …Brandon Fields
PR...Bess/ Armstrong
KR...GinnJr.
Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor
Nickel Defense:
LDE...Cam Wake
LDT…Fergie
RDT…the BigPig Soliai
RDE ...Matt Roth
OLB…Jason Taylor
ILb...Joey Porter
CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
NB…Jason Allen
S…Gibril Wilson
S…Yeremiah Bell
CB…Will Allen[/SIZE] -
Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09
Offense:
WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garne®r
QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), CHad Henne
RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)
Defense:
LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrigue Wright, Tony McDonald
NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Solai, Louis Ellis®
RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver
Specialists:
Kicker… Dan Carpenter
PNT …Brandon Fields
PR...Bess/ Armstrong
KR...GinnJr.
Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor
Nickel Defense:
LDE...Cam Wake
LDT…Fergie
RDT…the BigPig
RDE ...Matt Roth
OLB…Jason Taylor
ILb...Joey Porter
CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
NB…Jason Allen
S…Gibril Wilson
S…Yeremiah Bell
CB…Will Allen[/SIZE] -
Roster (down to 60) for 2009_12 June 09
(to get the roster to 53 means minus seven of the players listed, this will be difficult)
Offense:
WR... GinnJr., Armstrong, Turner®
WR...Camarillo, D.Bess, Hartline®/Marion®
TE....Tony Fasano, J. Haynos, E.Wilford
LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
RG...Donald Thomas, Brandon Frye, J.D. Quinn®
RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garner
QB..Chad Pennington, Patrick White (WildCat), Chad Henne
RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)
Defense:
LDE...Kendal Langford, Rodrique Wright, Tony McDonald
NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul the BigPig Soliai, Louis Ellis®
RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake, Q. Moses
ILB...Channing Crowder, J,D. Folsom®
ILB..Akin Ayodele, Eric Walden®, Matt Roth
SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Tearrius George, Eric Walden®
RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®, Nathan Jones
LCB...Eric Green, Sean Smith®, Jason Allen
SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver
Specialists:
Kicker… Dan Carpenter
PNT …Brandon Fields
PR...Bess/ Armstrong
KR...GinnJr.
Gunner…Cameron Wake/Jason Allen
Long Snapper…John Denny/Jason Taylor
Nickel Defense:
LDE...Cam Wake
LDT…Fergie
RDT…the BigPig
RDE ...Matt Roth
OLB…Jason Taylor
ILb...Joey Porter
CB…Sean Smith/Vontae Davis
NB…Jason Allen
S…Gibril Wilson
S…Yeremiah Bell
CB…Will Allen[/SIZE]
only an opinion, an educated, however biased guess, welcome to comment, add subject, even try your luck @ instead of 60 break it down to 53 :yes: -
Here's my early guess at 53.
Offense:
WR... GinnJr., Turner®, Armstrong,
WR...D.Bess, Camarillo, Hartline®
TE....Tony Fasano, Martin, E.Wilford
LT...Jake Long, Andrew Gardner®
LG...Justin Smile, Shawn Murphy
C..Jake Grove, Joe Berger
RG...Donald Thomas
RT...Vern Carey, Nate Garner
QB..Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, Patrick White
RB...Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Lex Hilliard
FB...Lou Polite (will use H-backs)
Defense:
LDE...Kendal Langford, Tony McDonald
NT..Jason.Ferguson, Paul Soliai, Louis Ellis®
RDE...Randy Starks, Phillip Merling, Lionel Dotson
WLB...Joey Porter, Cameron Wake
ILB...Channing Crowder, Reggie Torbor
ILB..Akin Ayodele
SLB..Matt Roth, Jason Taylor, Eric Walden®
RCB...Will Allen, Vontae Davis®
LCB...Sean Smith®, Eric Green, Jason Allen
SS...Gibril Wilson, Chris Clemons®
FS...Yeremiah Bell, Tyrone Culver
Specialists:
Kicker… Dan Carpenter
PNT …Brandon Fields
PR...Bess/ Armstrong
KR...GinnJr.
Long Snapper…Jason Taylor
I'm a bit concerned with the interior OL health. If Donald Thomas is still nicked come the end of TC then I might overweight the offense more at the expense of the DL, probably McDonald.padre31 likes this. -
I agree with this.
Bess > Camarillo
Smith > Davis
Just IMO. -
Anderson also made some great ST plays last season, and he knows the defense, IMO he stays, unless someone really steps up on Special Teams.
Tony McD is a interesting player, no question about that, but that position is a coin toss, right now there is not much seperating Merling from Starks from McD.
It was clear that Joey P was spent by the end of the season, adding JT and Wake and Wilson and the Rook Cb's are meant to help get us off the field on 3rd down, it remains to be seen if they can do the job or not.
Dc Pasqualoni will be burning the midnight oil working on our scheme, the AFC East is sort of like an Arms Race, we get better defensive players, everyone else acquires more potent offensive weapons or Brady gets healthy.
Should be fun though, and it's fairly clear why we did not draft a OLB, Wake, Walden, Anderson, JT, Moses, George, there are only so many snaps and reps to go around. -
getting real tough to keep the board alive in thru the doldrums
going to be a very long 40 days until things begin to pick up again -
You're kind of assuming that it's just the returners fault that our ST return units were ranked so low. I personally blame the blocking. Having armstrong return punts won't help with the blocking